X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: locorider21 on November 29, 2006, 11:58:45 PM

Title: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: locorider21 on November 29, 2006, 11:58:45 PM
Hey guys, Ok i have a huge x10 module and wall switch set up in my home but im only going to explain the set up of my christmas lights. I have a ton of christmas lights on my house, which all plug into three different places. 2 locations are both of my evaporative air conditioners and the other, is my plug in the front yard. Each location has 1 AM486 Appliance module powering the lights it hooks up to. Now here are my questions:
1. Your probably wondering how i have my lights hooked into the air conditioners. First, I plug the module into the space where the pump plugs in (normal 2 prong plug). Then i turn the switch inside to pump only so that switch activates. The first question, is if the module is off late night and most of the day and only on during the evening, is it bad for me to have the electricity constantly running to the module (i mean leaving my switches on pump only) or is it the same as any other plug with a module in my house. I guess what im trying to say, if i have a module thats offed by x10 command, the electricity is running all the way to module and stops there until i turn on the module which lets it run through to the appliance or light, right? And if so, if the module is off to long, can the electricity burn the module or worse, surge my house?
2. My second question, is when i first plugged the modules into the air conditioners and turned them on via x10 command, i heard a CLICK noise. I called X10 and they said it was normal. After i got off the phone  plugged in the module into the plug on my porch and when i turned that module on, i heard a click and visually saw the module, and it looked like there was a blue spark inside when it turned on.... what does that mean? Is that normal? Or does that mean i have too much on that module.... i have 2 blow ups, about 5 net lights and i would say 6 strings of lights hooked up.
3. My third question, is how do i know when i have TOO much connected to the module...... like will the module blow and no longer work..
4. Final Question, the module on the front yard plug is outside but sits under a small ledges that comes off the roof so it has someprotection from rain..not that we get much here in texas. But is the appliance module ok to be touched by water? RIght now i have it wrapped in a plastic bag with all the connections to protect it from water....
THANKS FOR THE HELP
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: Brian H on November 30, 2006, 07:01:39 AM
1 Modules are made to be powered 24 hours a day. As long as it is not extremely hot or cold they can be on 24/7.

2 The starting surge of the loads sometimes sparks as the contacts close. In a dimly light are you may see it. You may have too much on the one module. If possible look at the items for their power rating. Many have a label with the ratings. The appliance modules ratins should be on a label on th rear side. If you get the data; we maybe able to assist you. Since you have mixed loads. Like a blower in the blow ups are inductive and the lights are more resistive.

3 An extreme overload may burn the contacts of the mechanical switch in the appliance module or fuse them on; but the contacts are fairly rugged and can take some abuse. Most likely you may shorten the modules On/Off life cycle.

4 Moisture is not good for those modules and may cause problems. I believe others have used plastic wrapping and maybe able to give mode details.
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: Oldtimer on November 30, 2006, 08:40:51 AM
Double wrapping in plastic bags has worked for me for years with our deck Christmas lights.
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: locorider21 on November 30, 2006, 10:20:26 AM
Quote from: Brian H on November 30, 2006, 07:01:39 AM
1 Modules are made to be powered 24 hours a day. As long as it is not extremely hot or cold they can be on 24/7.

2 The starting surge of the loads sometimes sparks as the contacts close. In a dimly light are you may see it. You may have too much on the one module. If possible look at the items for their power rating. Many have a label with the ratings. The appliance modules ratins should be on a label on th rear side. If you get the data; we maybe able to assist you. Since you have mixed loads. Like a blower in the blow ups are inductive and the lights are more resistive.

3 An extreme overload may burn the contacts of the mechanical switch in the appliance module or fuse them on; but the contacts are fairly rugged and can take some abuse. Most likely you may shorten the modules On/Off life cycle.

4 Moisture is not good for those modules and may cause problems. I believe others have used plastic wrapping and maybe able to give mode details.

Ok heres the thing, i threw away all the ORIGINAL boxes for the lights and blow ups 2 years ago.... so i dont know wat to do from there...
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: vhoang on November 30, 2006, 10:31:51 AM
1.  I leave my modules plugged in year round without any problems.   The are designed to sit there and wait for commands.   If it's not DOA it's usually the load that damages them.

2. It's a physical relay clicking.   The lamp modules don't click, but the appliance modules do.

3. Like Brian sais, check the back of the module, there's a sticker there with the rating, and do a conservative guess on what you are connecting to it from the products ratings.   If you need the rating for you X10 module, they have all the pdf's archived on their site.

4. Froogle for FWLROD.   A growing number of people are using them for outdoor stuff.  They resist moisture a little better and is X10 compatible.
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: TakeTheActive on November 30, 2006, 11:23:36 AM
Quote from: locorider21 on November 30, 2006, 10:20:26 AM

Ok heres the thing, i threw away all the ORIGINAL boxes for the lights and blow ups 2 years ago.... so i dont know wat to do from there...

Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: dave w on November 30, 2006, 12:10:04 PM
If you don't have a clue how much power you are pulling through the module, we don't either, and
TakeTheActive's advice about the "Kill-A-Watt" is one way to find out.

Are your lights and modules on standard 15 amp breakers? If so, you are probably OK and the blue flash you saw might be from the initial "start-up" loads of the fans on your blow-ups.

Alternately, go to store and look at new blow-up decoration box with a display approximately same size as yours and find the wattage listed. Also I believe a 100 light string of miniatures are close to 100 watts (anybody else know?) so use these figures and estimate what you have on each module.
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: jkarney on November 30, 2006, 05:00:45 PM
Hi all,

I just went through the same inssue with the wattage of the Christmas blow-ups. I too threw away the boxes years ago. What I did was look at the end of the power cable of the blow-up. If the UL sticker is intact you will find the amp rating listed here. Using Ohms law you can calculate the wattage. Voltage X Current = Watts. I know voltages vary a little from area to area so you can measure with a multimeter or just simply use 115v as a standard voltage.

I have included a link that will do the calculation for you:

Electrician2: Ohm's Law Calculators for Watts / Amps / Volts / Ohms (http://www.electrician2.com/resist_calc/resist_calc2.htm)

I hope this helps.


[TTA Edit: Changed underlined address into LINK; added description.]

Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: Brian H on November 30, 2006, 06:11:01 PM
FWLROD Freewire module. Looks like a 2' extension cord with a module in the center. Programs like a socket rocket by three of the same address/ on signals within 30 seconds of power on. Then remembers it and can be even moved. Also it was an OEM from X10 for Black and Decker.
I believe Smarthome still lists them.
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: locorider21 on November 30, 2006, 08:03:41 PM
thanks for the help guys i will go out in a little bit and take a look again.. THANKS!
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: medvampire on November 30, 2006, 09:27:39 PM
From what I remember that a 100 light string pulls about 1/3 amp. In doing Christmas lighting from http://computerchristmas.com/index.php?link=how_to&HowToId=32 we use 2 amp TRIAC with no more than 150 lights to go to around 80 % of the TRIAC. The AM486 is rated at 15 amps so I would not put more than 10 or 12 strings of 100 lights per AM486. As for the blow up you will need the boxes to get the wattage.
Later
Steve
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: locorider21 on December 01, 2006, 12:22:01 AM
Ok guys i finally went out to take a look at each string of lights and blowups and their plugs have tags so i got all the info.. Everything im going to state below each is 120V at 60Hz
I basically added up all the amperage on each because i know the 486 can handle 15amps.
Heres a list of the Amps for each.
2  Blowups     = 1 at .73A   so 2   equal  1.46A
12 Net Lights  = 1 at .3A    so 12 equal  3.6A
1 String Light  =1  at .20A  so 1   equal   .20A
8 String Light  = 1 at .37A  so 8   equal  2.96A
2 String Light  = 1 at .6A    so 2   equal  1.2A

So basicall I added to totals up to come up with a total of 9.42Amps for All, which puts me under the 15AMP limit... so im not so afraid of that spark anymore.... Tomorrow i will get up on the roof and calculate what i have there...... I did the Chevy Chase things this year and put string after string after string of lights on the roof. But i have 2 modules up there.. so that will be interesting... But anyways thanks for everything..
Title: Re: Appliance Module and Christmas Lights
Post by: 3_jeeps on December 04, 2006, 10:47:55 PM
By law, each string of lights must carry a tag that states intended usage, as well as electrical specs.  Hopefully you haven't removed them.  The voltage and current should be listed.  Just add the current of each string to get total current.  Sometimes, the voltage (120 VAC) and the power rating (in Watts) is given.  To get the current of the string, divide the Wattage/120.  If the tags are removed, the strings most likely have a mini-fuse in them.  Remove the mini fuse, read the number on the endcap which will probably be the current in amps.  If a fuse number is give, look up the rating using Google. - Using the fuse current will give you a maximum current, which will work for your application. 

If you know an electrician, heating/air conditioning person, auto mechanic, ask them if you can borrow their 'tong amp meter'...the probe end is a clamp-like device that pinches the wires (or just goes around them) and the load current is displayed on the meter.

For future reference, to obtain reliable operation with the lamp modules, they should be connected to loads that require approximately 0.1 amp of current.  The lamp modules control the load with a triac. The triace needs a minimum amount of load current to ensure that it maintains it conduction (e.g. strays on) when it is told to do so.  This minimum current is referred to as 'keep alive current' or 'holding current'.  A rule of thumb is that the holding current is a minimum of 50-60 ma.  This is well below the average christmas tree light string except in the cases where you may have one small (e.g. 20 or 30 light) string. 

Good luck..
John