X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: Billaban on January 01, 2007, 09:11:22 AM
-
Greetings,
I did some searching herein and couldn't find any existing discussion of this so here is a new thread.
I have been working with a couple MS16A's in my basement and garage coupled with several LM15A's. I have a CM15A/AHP (and all pluggins) with the antenna mod wired in my attic. Very nice performance improvement.
The problem is that it seems that the sensor range on the MS16A's can be as little as 5 ft, i.e., I have had to walk to it and wave my hands in order to see the sensor light illuminate which then yields the desired results via macros to drive the LM15A's. Frequently the legacy light socket screw-in motion sensor which I haven't removed yet (on another light socket) senses motion and lights before the the MS16A triggers. Yes, I know there will be some delay but I'm talking about more than a couple seconds.
The range from the stairwell to the MS16A is approx. 10 ft. I oriented the sensor so that the motion on the stairwell would be tangential to the sensor, i.e., should be optimal scenario for the motion detection. Correct?
Is detection of less than 10 ft all I should expect from MS16A's?
TIA. You guys have been of great assistance.
-
Is detection of less than 10 ft all I should expect from MS16A's?
You should be getting better distance. One of my MS16A's, in the front of my house, triggers whenever a car drives down the street (> 40ft.). I actually have to tape off areas of the sensor to make it near sighted.
All I can think of suggesting is make sure you are using good Alkaline batteries.
-
You should be getting better distance. One of my MS16A's, in the front of my house, triggers whenever a car drives down the street (> 40ft.). I actually have to tape off areas of the sensor to make it near sighted.
Wow. The one in my garage doesn't trigger until the vehicle is half way in.
All I can think of suggesting is make sure you are using good Alkaline batteries.
OK, I'll try new batteries.... Maybe I got a bad batch.
-
Billaban: You don't have your location entered in your profile so this is only a guess.
Sensors are heat sensitive if the heat from you is to close to the surroundings you need to be closer for it to work! ::) Users have posted range issues in the warmer states! ;)
Occasionally my sensors don't catch movement in the house if I have the Pellet stove cranked up and it is to warm in here or in the hot summer afternoons performance is bad with the upstairs sensors ::)
-
I'm in Maryland. I'll update my profile more better some other time.
My basement is not finished and neither the garage or the basement is heated so I'm hoping that I have weak/bad batteries. Otherwise I have two defective units ( 2 out of 2?). I've gotten smart enough (just barely) in my years to know that is unlikely.
Thanks.
Billaban
-
Well, apparently I'm not that smart after all. I tried new ALKALINE batteries in both units and still have 6ft of range on one and maybe 1 or 2ft of range on the other.
I guess I will have my first adventure with x10 customer service today to return/exchange these two units.
Thanks for the help.
Billaban
-
Well, apparently I'm not that smart after all. I tried new ALKALINE batteries in both units and still have 6ft of range on one and maybe 1 or 2ft of range on the other.
I guess I will have my first adventure with x10 customer service today to return/exchange these two units.
That's unfortunate... but if they are from the same manufacturing batch (I.E. date code), it's not unlikely to get 2 that don't work well.
Suggestion: I'm not home now so I can't check, but if there is manufactuing date codes on the sensors, record them (or better yet POST them here), and when you get your replacements, compare the date codes. Just in case you get the same date codes and the same problem.
Good Luck!
-
Not mounted on a metal surface are they or a metal surface between the sensor and the receiver? If so that can be a problem.
-
Nope. One is mounted to a door frame (all wood) in the garage. That is the least effective unit. My car pulls to within 6 ft of this unit and it doesn't sense. When I say sense I mean I'm watching for the red LED to illuminate on the sensor. The other is sitting on a wooden shelf. In both cases there isn't much metal in close proximity.
Even if the sensor wasn't lighting I think I would receive the RF signal since I recently added an external antenna to my CM15A. Understanding that internal range (metal lathe plaster walls) is going to be less that external, I have probably 80 yds of external range and no evidence that I'm missing any RF in or around the house, i.e., I have been learning alot by looking at the Activity Monitor.
I'm still stumped unless these units are simply defective. I realized today when reviewing various receipts that I bought these on Ebay, i.e., pain the a___ to return/exchange. They appeared to be factory packed and sealed but I guess that is easy to fudge. Anyway, the cost is so minimal I plan to get a few more and simply create a redundant environment and see what happens. This seems like the path of least resistence to get to where I can rely on my lighting control.
Thanks for the tips.
-
OK then we can rule out metal as a possible thing to look at.
-
Bilaban
Don't know if this will help or not FWIW
My experience with any passive IR detector is; they work best (i.e. trigger most reliably) when the heat source is moving perpendicular to the unit, or ACROSS the field of sensor's view. The heat source is seen moving from one quadrent to another of the sensor chip. However, if you are walking or driving towards the sensor, they do still trigger, but not as reliably. The heat source is seen as starting small and blooming across the sensor chip's view. All sensor quadrents get turned on, rather than quadrents getting turned on and turned off as the heat source transverses the view area.
If the "xxxxeye" motion detector's red LED isn't flashing as you drive in garage, try repositioning the sensor.
-
My experience with any passive IR detector is; they work best (i.e. trigger most reliably) when the heat source is moving perpendicular to the unit, or ACROSS the field of sensor's view.
I was aware of this based on some related threads on this forum. Seemed like all the motion involved with garage door opener and an SUV parking < 10 ft away would be enough to trigger the sensor regardless of direction relative to the sensor so that was the orientation I chose. However, even with human tangential movement (from a doorway also in close proximity) the sensor doesn't trigger more than 1 in 10. It also seems like a warm body (or a hot engine) entering a cold garage would be an optimal environment for a IR sensor.
I have a couple more sensors on the way and simply plan to add more sensors (with different orientations) to hopefully gain reliability.
All my other X10 works well. This sensor problem is the only "bad apple" at present.
Thanks for the input.
-
You should be getting better distance. One of my MS16A's, in the front of my house, triggers whenever a car drives down the street (> 40ft.). I actually have to tape off areas of the sensor to make it near sighted.
All I can think of suggesting is make sure you are using good Alkaline batteries.
@Puck,
I'm in a similar situation as you are. However having my motion sensor triggered by cars driving down the street is not acceptable (as it should trigger a chime - annoying).
Can you give some more details on how to make the sensor more "near sighted". I only want about 20' of detection range but am getting about 50' :o
Thanks,
Andy
-
svcguy: Since this post I have moved and attached my frontdoor sensor to my aluminum soffit where it now points downward in the area I want covered. (This was possible for me after I got a V572RF32 as the CM15A couldn't pick it up.)
However, before this, I had the sensor angled downward as much as I could and then used a thin strip of electrical tape across the top part of the sensor's Fresnel lens to prevent the distance objects (I.E. cars) from triggering it.
-
Puck,
So, angle it downward and cover the top of it's lens to reduce it's range? Ok, I'm going to try that, seems reasonable to me!
Just out of curiosity, after you put it on the soffit, how far was it's range then. I guess that would be the sensors top to bottom range at that point. I mounted mine on the stone wall of my front porch, and am not really in love with it's aesthetics. If the range is right, mounting it to the soffit might be a better solution for me, too!
Andy
-
Just out of curiosity, after you put it on the soffit, how far was it's range then. I guess that would be the sensors top to bottom range at that point.
With it pointing downward on a slight angle, it completely covers my front door area and an adjacent basement window. I haven't measured the actual triggering area since it covers what I want, but I'm estimating it covers about a 15 ft radius. FYI: I have the top part of the motion sensor facing the opposite side of the wall (bottom of sensor towards wall). With this configuration I was able to better limit the area coverage out from the wall by mounting it with a slight angle using wooden shims. I also use Velcro for easy dismounting for battery replacement ( Thanks Dave_x10_L ;) ).
-
I like the Velcro idea ;D
FWIW, I ended up trying my aluminum soffit and was not able to get RF reception on the CM15A (F-connector mod and quarter-wave ground plane antenna in the basement). I then went to a small section of wall on the front porch perpendicular to the first wall I tried. So far, so good. It will most likely ring up cars going down the driveway (and my neighbor's as well), but I'll see how it does there for now.
Thanks for the help, Puck, +1 to you >!
Andy