X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: cpapjack on February 08, 2007, 01:59:21 PM
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I successfully installed my first X10 components two nights ago. I installed a WS467 and an MS12A in my pantry, as my wife or one of my children are always leaving the light on. I have both of them set to House Code P and Unit Code 1. I'm attaching a log from this morning when I was fooling around with AH Pro. My question is, what the heck is P2? I don't have any other X10 modules anywhere else. Also, I created a macro to turn the light off after 15 sec. This macro is obviously triggered by the MS12A. So why is it that the light goes off after 62 seconds instead of 15?
One other question I have regarding the CM15A. Is it OK to have it plugged into the same breaker/circuit as my laptop?
Jack
Event Date/Time Action Data
0 2/8/2007 7:35 Receive RF P1 On
1 2/8/2007 7:35 Receive P1 (Pantry Sensor)
2 2/8/2007 7:35 Receive P On (Pantry Sensor)
3 2/8/2007 7:36 Receive RF P2 Off
4 2/8/2007 7:36 Receive P2
5 2/8/2007 7:36 Receive P Off
6 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive RF P1 Off
7 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive P1 (Pantry Sensor)
8 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive P Off (Pantry Sensor)
9 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive RF P2 On
10 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive P2
11 2/8/2007 7:37 Receive P On
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cpapjack: Welcome to the forum.
All MSxxA motion sensors have a built in light detector. (All except the security version MS10A that is). This light detector sends a signal on UnitCode + 1. It is basically a dusk / dawn sensor. As you can see from your activity monitor, when the pantry light goes on P2 goes OFF (it's dawn...I.E. light is present). When the pantry light goes off P2 goes on (it's dusk... no light detected).
This can be an useful tool... see TakeTheActive's [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9550.0)
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cpapjack: Welcome to the forum.
All MSxxA motion sensors have a built in light detector. (All except the security version MS10A that is). This light detector sends a signal on UnitCode + 1. It is basically a dusk / dawn sensor. As you can see from your activity monitor, when the pantry light goes on P2 goes OFF (it's dawn...I.E. light is present). When the pantry light goes off P2 goes on (it's dusk... no light detected).
This can be an useful tool... see TakeTheActive's [TTA TIP] 1½-Way Status Reporting [Positive LOAD Feedback Loop!] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9550.0)
Puck Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. Any idea about why it's staying on fro 62 sec. compared to the 15 sec. the macro is configured for?
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Any idea about why it's staying on fro 62 sec. compared to the 15 sec. the macro is configured for?
From the activity monitor data you provided above, it doesn't look like a macro was triggered. Motion sensors have a default time-out for sending an OFF signal after so much time elapses without detecting motion (and it sounds like 1 minute for the MS12A). So check your macro address and trigger conditions if you have one for turning the light off after 15 seconds.
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Any idea about why it's staying on fro 62 sec. compared to the 15 sec. the macro is configured for?
From the activity monitor data you provided above, it doesn't look like a macro was triggered. Motion sensors have a default time-out for sending an OFF signal after so much time elapses without detecting motion (and it sounds like 1 minute for the MS12A). So check your macro address and trigger conditions if you have one for turning the light off after 15 seconds.
Gotcha. I'm at work right now, so I can't look to see to answer this question for myself. But when you say macro address, do you mean XY (where x=house code and y = unit code)?
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But when you say macro address, do you mean XY (where x=house code and y = unit code)?
Yes... your macro would have to be set to address P1 and the trigger would be (P1) ON.
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But when you say macro address, do you mean XY (where x=house code and y = unit code)?
Yes... your macro would have to be set to address P1 and the trigger would be (P1) ON.
Cool. Thanks for your help. I appreciate it. I'll have to try this tonite.
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In the event it isn't obvious, if you have your module and your motion sensor set to the same code, the motion sensor is turning on and off the module (wall switch, whatever). The door opens and someone walks into the pantry. P1 is the motion sensor. AHP sends P1on across your electric lines. The light goes on. Your dusk-dawn sensor sends P2, which gets sent down the powerline, but it's meaningless. When the motion sensor times out, it sends a P1off, which is sent down the powerline and turns off the pantry light. The dusk-dawn sensor sends a P2 which is ignored.
To make the macro work, set the motion sensor to a different code, say M1. Then have a macro triggered by M1 that turns on the pantry light.
Or you can remove the macro and leave your system as-is. One thing I like about that is that if you have several kids, at some point a favorite game will be to terrorize the youngest by locking them in the pantry and listening to them scream when the light automatically turns off. If the motion sensor directly controls the light, the child's presence will keep sending an On command, keeping the light on indefinitely.
I'm currently messing around with using macros and keeping all of my motion sensors on a transceived House Code. Look at the amount of activity they generate on your monitor when someone is inside the pantry. What I'm learning now is the logic behind programming my study light to come on and stay on, then go off when I exit, but to dim before going out so if I am still in the study hard at work I can wave my arms to re-trigger the light.
Have fun!
Rob
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To make the macro work, set the motion sensor to a different code, say M1. Then have a macro triggered by M1 that turns on the pantry light.
If cpapjack's main goal is to have the pantry light go out after 15 seconds, having the macro, light & motion sensor all on the same address would have it's benefits:
- . The light would come on almost instantly (faster than via a macro)
- . The purpose of the macro would be just to make the light go out in a shorter time period (15 seconds instead of at least 1 minute)
- . The 1 minute timeout of the motion sensor would be a backup to decrease the possibility of the light not going out
As you stated robster, there is the chance of the light going out when someone is still in there; but it would come back on within seconds due to movement. Yes this would be annoying if it happens to someone a lot, and separating the light's address from the sensor & macro would prevent this with using separate ON & OFF macros. Since there are Pros & Cons with both methods, the desired outcome for a setup will determine which method to use. So thanks for mentioning that option too in case cpapjack wasn't aware of it. ;) :)
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In the event it isn't obvious, if you have your module and your motion sensor set to the same code, the motion sensor is turning on and off the module (wall switch, whatever). The door opens and someone walks into the pantry. P1 is the motion sensor. AHP sends P1on across your electric lines. The light goes on. Your dusk-dawn sensor sends P2, which gets sent down the powerline, but it's meaningless. When the motion sensor times out, it sends a P1off, which is sent down the powerline and turns off the pantry light. The dusk-dawn sensor sends a P2 which is ignored.
To make the macro work, set the motion sensor to a different code, say M1. Then have a macro triggered by M1 that turns on the pantry light.
Or you can remove the macro and leave your system as-is. One thing I like about that is that if you have several kids, at some point a favorite game will be to terrorize the youngest by locking them in the pantry and listening to them scream when the light automatically turns off. If the motion sensor directly controls the light, the child's presence will keep sending an On command, keeping the light on indefinitely.
I'm currently messing around with using macros and keeping all of my motion sensors on a transceived House Code. Look at the amount of activity they generate on your monitor when someone is inside the pantry. What I'm learning now is the logic behind programming my study light to come on and stay on, then go off when I exit, but to dim before going out so if I am still in the study hard at work I can wave my arms to re-trigger the light.
Have fun!
Rob
Rob, thanks for the suggestion. While your idea is a good one, definitely one to keep in mind for a future setup/configuration, I think Puck's idea of just setting the macro code to that of the switch will work just fine for my pantry.
As far as your light in the study goes, I'd be interested in that one as well. I thought when I was setting up the switch and sensor in my pantry the other night, that even though I had it set to go after a certain amount of time, the light stayed on as long as I was in there and the sensor detected motion. I could be wrong though. I'll have to play around with that and see.
Jack
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As you stated robster, there is the chance of the light going out when someone is still in there; but it would come back on within seconds due to movement.
I noticed that even before I changed the code on the macro to match that of the switch, that there is probably at least a 1-2 second delay before the light comes on. I can live with thatI guess if I have to, but why is this? It seems to me that it should be instant.
Jack
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As you stated robster, there is the chance of the light going out when someone is still in there; but it would come back on within seconds due to movement.
I noticed that even before I changed the code on the macro to match that of the switch, that there is probably at least a 1-2 second delay before the light comes on. I can live with thatI guess if I have to, but why is this? It seems to me that it should be instant.
Jack
After a motion sensor detects motion, it takes a few seconds for it to remeasure the ambient infrared levels so that it can detect motion again.
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I have most of my lights running under house code A. I would like to use house code C for my motion sensors. When I select a trigger condition for my sensore C1, and try to specify that it is only to run when "Certain module is off" A16, it only let me choose codes from the C house code range.
I want my motiong sensor to trigger my light only if the light is not already on AND if it is after dusk. If I can't check for A16 already on, the sensor sends out multiple ON's and the macro run many times over simultaniously.
Any idea how to do this?
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ed n: you need to set House Code "A" to be the monitored house code, in order to use it as a macro condition.
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What exactly is the purpose of the monitored house code? There is very little in the help text on this. I was thinking it was the house code to be discplayed in the Activity Monitor.
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What exactly is the purpose of the monitored house code? There is very little in the help text on this. I was thinking it was the house code to be discplayed in the Activity Monitor.
All house codes get displayed in the activity monitor. The monitored house code is the only one that Active Home Pro allows you to use the modules state in macro conditions.
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Ed,
I feel your pain.... and the best advice comes from some posts Puck & Tuicemen put up. Start reading HERE (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=7951.msg49167#msg49167)
I've been playing "Throw your money at X10" since December. Sometimes it's more like, "So, you gotta go left for 1 mile in order to arrive 6" from where you started" - but it is fun, and these guys like helping.
Read up on Monitored vs. Tranceived. Then tackle Phantoms & Flags.
I don't have any 2-way modules, so nothing I post refers to them.
For the CONDITIONS part of macros, ("IF" statements) -
1. Only those modules that are set to the "monitored" HouseCode can be used.
2. Only one HouseCode can be monitored.
3. Flags CAN be used - and there are 16 FLAGS available to you - they're ON-OFF, and they're changed ONLY by your macros.
4. If you have "ELSE's", they work much better if you put explicit conditions in them:
IF A1=ON
Do this
ELSE IF A1=Off (rather than just a blank ELSE)
Do that
I use PHANTOMs (AM486's) to (1) show me the state of flags (F1 shows me how FLAG#1 is set, etc. rather than having to run the STATUS report) and (2) trigger other macros - You can use FLAGS as conditionals, but they can't trigger. Also, If AHP locks-up, and/or gets restarted, sometimes it doesn't remember the state of modules, but the FLAGS in the interface seem to still be there, so I created a manual macro that tests each flag and sets the cooresponding Phantom - with delays between each - this also runs all phantom-associated macros. Sort of like a whole-system reset.
Off topic, but to help keep whatever hair is left:
When something doesn't work the way you think it should:
a. Make sure you've saved & downloaded to the interface.
b. Moved the interface as far away from your PC as you can.
c. Tested with the sensor close by, and the module plugged into a KNOWN controllable outlet.
d. Have another scotch
e. Save often & have a backup AHX
f. Tell the wife it won't stay like that - you're only "testing"
g. Have another scotch
h. Test putting a 2-second delay at the beginning or end of your macro
i. Is ther another macro already running? Does the macro work if it's the only one running?
j. Burn the receipts so that even you won't know how much you've spent.
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Hey, you been playing "Throw your money at X10" since December? I've been at this for over seven years and I don't know if I'm too studip to walk away from this stuff or if I have some kind of hidden belief that it does work reliable. I have cameras, two Pro modules, one of the old serial modules, light switches all over my house, pan&tilt units, alarm system, Motion sensors up the ying yang and still it seems that things are not reliable enough to say I have a full system. I just ordered a bunch of other stuff to give it another try and already my outside lights aren't coming on with a simple timer.
I've printed off your post and will go through it and my setup again over the next few days.
Thanks for your assistance.
Don't take this wrong but I'm glad it's not just me.
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I think much of my problem is the lack of connections between the two side of my panel. I have the link in place but it doesn't seem to be sufficient. Oce of the X-10 techs mentioned that I might be better off using the RF codes from the macros in the interface and sending commands to two transcievers on the two sides of the panel. Is there a way to tell the interface to use only rf commands so the operations from the windows application can work this same way?