X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: raygeeknyc on March 04, 2007, 09:48:31 PM

Title: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: raygeeknyc on March 04, 2007, 09:48:31 PM
Hi
  My electrician installed an X10 20A outlet for me but it appears to be on it's own circuit, straight to the circuit breaker box with nothing else  ???
  I cannot think of a way to switch it on.  Is there any way to make this outlet useful?

---Raymond
Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: Charles Sullivan on March 04, 2007, 10:37:08 PM
Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 04, 2007, 09:48:31 PM
Hi
  My electrician installed an X10 20A outlet for me but it appears to be on it's own circuit, straight to the circuit breaker box with nothing else  ???
  I cannot think of a way to switch it on.  Is there any way to make this outlet useful?

---Raymond

Have you tried turning it on/off by sending X10 signals from several different outlets in various parts of your house?   Having the X10 outlet and X10 sending unit on different branch circuits is usually not a problem so long as both branches are on the same phase of a  3-wire electrical system.  (There may be a problem if the breaker is one of the newer arc-detecting GFI breakers.)

Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: raygeeknyc on March 05, 2007, 09:05:51 AM
Yes, I tried sending signals from a few places, in the same room and adjoining ones.  This is a common problem in the house, each area only gets signals from the same or close-by outlets, and the electrical work is all new so I assume that I have the breakers you reference.  Is there anything else I can try?

Thanks
---Raymond
Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: Charles Sullivan on March 05, 2007, 10:29:32 AM
Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 05, 2007, 09:05:51 AM
Yes, I tried sending signals from a few places, in the same room and adjoining ones.  This is a common problem in the house, each area only gets signals from the same or close-by outlets, and the electrical work is all new so I assume that I have the breakers you reference.  Is there anything else I can try?


I think the first thing to do is investigate the breaker situation.  There may be a label on each breaker or you may have to ask the electrician.  I've been told that the electrical codes call for this type of breaker for bedroom circuits, but local codes may require them for all new circuits.  The older non-arc-detecting GFI breakers and standalone GFIs are usually not a problem.   I don't know how people are dealing with these new breakers though.

Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: dave w on March 05, 2007, 11:54:52 AM
If this outlet is on a branch by itself, it could be a phase issue also. You may need a coupler/repeater. A simple (but not always reliable, depending on your panel layout) rule-of-thumb:

Usually every OTHER breaker in the column on your panel is the same phase, so skip a breaker above or below the X10 outlet breaker. Identify the room that breaker feeds and send an X10 signal from an outlet in that room. That should guarantee you are at least sending a test signal on the same phase. If the X10 out works, you need a coupler/repeater.

FWIW and IMHO the ACT brand repeaters are superior to Smarthome and Leviton units.


[TTA Edit: Finished, IMHO, dave w's ' incomplete ' thought... ;) ]
Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: JeffVolp on March 05, 2007, 12:05:38 PM
Quote
The older non-arc-detecting GFI breakers and standalone GFIs are usually not a problem.   I don't know how people are dealing with these new breakers though.

We have 4 Arc-Fault breakers here, and my office/workshop is on one (it could be used for a bedroom).  That is not on the X10 phase, but there is still a decent X10 signal that makes it to my workbench.

Regarding the original problem, I suggest reading the tutorials on Couplers and Filters on my Troubleshooting page:

JV Digital Engineering's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials Series (http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm)
Jeff


[TTA Edit: Added description to LINK.]
Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: TakeTheActive on March 05, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 04, 2007, 09:48:31 PM

...My electrician installed an X10 20A outlet for me but it appears to be on it's own circuit, straight to the circuit breaker box with nothing else  ???  I cannot think of a way to switch it on...

I find (the wording of) your question both ambiguous and a bit odd.  ???  Exactly *WHAT* did your electrician install?

A single, new 20A breaker in your panel, protecting a run of 12/2 romex (or bx), ending in:


If you cannot figure out how to switch it ON, how much X10 experience do you have? Did you buy any X10 Transmitters? [Is the new 20A Breaker switched ON? :-[ ]

Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 04, 2007, 09:48:31 PM

...Is there any way to make this outlet useful?

I would certainly hope so. ;)

Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 05, 2007, 09:05:51 AM

Yes, I tried sending signals from a few places, in the same room and adjoining ones...

From what?

Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 05, 2007, 09:05:51 AM

...This is a common problem in the house, each area only gets signals from the same or close-by outlets, and the electrical work is all new so I assume that I have the breakers you reference.

Back to your experience level -


Quote from: raygeeknyc on March 05, 2007, 09:05:51 AM

...Is there anything else I can try?

Rather than volley back-and-forth with 'Try this...', 'Didn't work? Well then, try this...', I prefer to get Newbies up to a 'known' knowledge level and then work from there.

For a solid foundation of X10 Operation, please start off by reading:

JV Digital Engineering's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials Series (http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm) (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_New.gif)

Then:
MAP / MEASURE / CORRECT (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg62635#msg62635) - be sure to read the EXCELLENT articles written by JeffVolp and Puck (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_Updated_blue_sm_wte.gif)

Finally, with your CIRCUIT MAP and SIGNAL METER in hand, finish up with:

TTA's X10 Troubleshooting Tips Thread [Updated: 2006/11/18]  (Read 4655 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.0)

As both Jeff Volp and I say:
Quote
I understand that most users don't want to hear this but

to have a reliable X10 System requires a substantial upfront investment in time and effort

To Get a Reliable X10 System (and I mean RELIABLE), One Has To Do Some Homework (courtesy of Jeff Volp) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10187.msg58732#msg58732) (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_New.gif)

Have fun and keep us all updated with your progress! :)
Title: Re: Help with activating outlet on its own circuit
Post by: raygeeknyc on March 06, 2007, 08:31:36 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on March 05, 2007, 02:09:55 PM
I find (the wording of) your question both ambiguous and a bit odd.  ???  Exactly *WHAT* did your electrician install?
The latter, obviously.  An X-10 controllable 20A outlet

Thanks for the useful info, but the attitude was unbecoming to say the least.  No need to be condescending, but I imagine you found it amusing.
I'll follow the directions that you and others have posted in the replies and see what I can come up with.
---Raymond