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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: craig-o on June 15, 2007, 02:46:08 PM

Title: RF remote signal problems
Post by: craig-o on June 15, 2007, 02:46:08 PM

Hello all.  I've dug through a bunch of the threads here and haven't found this topic addressed, though it may have been covered at some point; I just haven't been able to find it.  So, sorry if this is a repeat of some other thread.

I've got about 10 modules controlling various lights, the coffee pot, etc., Activehome Pro, two of the palm style remotes, noise filters on all the audio/video equipment and computers, and a plug-in phase coupler.

The problem is in one bedroom of the house where there are two light modules controlling two lights.  I can get these to turn on and off fine from the AHP software and using either remote so long as I'm not in the bedroom where these two lights are located.  The remotes will not work in that bedroom at all, but as soon as I step out of the room (literally just outside the door frame), they will work.  I've installed one of the SR731 repeaters and it works fine so long as it's not plugged-in in the bedroom, but even if its installed just outside the room, it will not work unless I move out of the room with the palm remote.  Again, the two modules work fine as long as you are controlling them from outside the room.

I've tested and fiddled with this to try and find a problem circuit, etc.  I've even plugged the SR731 into the same plug where the lights are connected.  I've plugged it into a plug just outside the bedroom, and even with the door open, it won't work.  Literally it was about 6-7 feet away with a clear line of sight.

I've reached just about the end of my knowledge level here (despite a decent amount of reading).Any assistance or insight with this problem would be greatly appreciated.

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: KDR on June 15, 2007, 03:22:55 PM

Well craig-o since the remotes work outside the room that kinda tells us that AHP is setup correctly to transceive the right house code. You might want to try and unplug the CM15A and plug it into an outlet in the room and try the remote.

First thing that comes to mind might be that the walls have a metal lath on them. Also could it be its built with metal studs? Either of these could interfear with the RF transmitting out of the room.

The other thing to watch for in bedrooms in newer houses being built, is the National Electric Code requires ARC Fault circuit breakers be installed. The local code may require other rooms to have them as well. This could mess up the PLC but shouldn't effect the RF.

_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^----KDR

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: craig-o on June 15, 2007, 07:11:14 PM

Thanks for the quick reply.  The house was built in the late 80s and has wodden studs.  One thing I didn't mention, though it may not matter, is that the house is two story.  The CM15A is upstairs (near the center of the house), but there aren't any range problems from any other point in the house, and this bedroom isn't the furthest away.

I know I don't understand some of this as well as others here, but I don't see how metal studs, or foil type insulation (I realize that wasn't mentioned yet) would effect the SR731 from receiving the RF signal when its located in the bedroom with the remote.  I could see that being a problem if it was in a different room (with the metal studs, etc.), but in the same room?  I've checked the SR731 by setting a module up as the state in their instructions and turning it on with the test button so I know its working.

Thanks again!!

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: HA Dave on June 15, 2007, 08:44:59 PM

Quote from: craig-o on June 15, 2007, 07:11:14 PM

I know I don't understand some of this as well as others here, but I don't see how metal studs, or foil type insulation (I realize that wasn't mentioned yet) would effect the SR731 from receiving the RF signal when its located in the bedroom with the remote.  I could see that being a problem if it was in a different room (with the metal studs, etc.), but in the same room? 

The SR731 (Signal Repeater 731) doesn't transceive (meaning convert RF to line signal) the SR731 simply repeats the RF signal. So since the problem appears to be the RF broadcasting out of the bedroom..... the repeater didn't help.

The simple fast work-around might be adding a plug-in remote.

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: KDR on June 15, 2007, 08:51:39 PM

Another thought which helped me fill a couple of bad spots was to change the angle of the CM15A's antenna. Have you tried it in the horizontal position. This has helped others in the past. Also did you try relocating the CM15A in that room yet, just for a test?

_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^---_{(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)}^----KDR

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: craig-o on June 16, 2007, 12:05:18 AM

Oh, I thought the signal repeater put the signal on the power line.  That makes more sense now.

I have fiddled with the antena a little, but have not spent much time testing that.  Additionally, I have not put the CM15A in another room.  It's getting late here and the kids are in bed, so I'm going to put that off until tomrrow.

Thanks all for the input.

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: craig-o on June 20, 2007, 03:39:34 PM

I've moved the CM15A without much, if any, effect.  What did effect the reliability is futzing with the antenna angle.  Short of just trial and error, is there a particular angle that seems to work better than others, or is it just a matter of house configuration, etc. that requires trial and error to nail down?  Also, I've seen the first part of a two part tutorial where you can add a better antenna to the CM15A, but I have not been able to find the second part.  Does anyone know where I can find part two?  Thanks all!

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: Boiler on June 20, 2007, 04:37:26 PM

craig-o,

The antenna angle is probably dependent on your house configuration.  This is just a work-around.  A reliable install would not require "tuning" the angle for reception (you don't want your installation to break when you close a door or move furniture). 

Try a search on "CM15a Antenna" - there are a lot of links to different modifications on the forum.  Be advised, if you improve the range you may become susceptible to your neighbors X10 system.  You can locate X10 transmissions that are not your own (look under "other computers").  Good Rf range can be nice but  it can also be frustrating to constantly revise your system when your neighbor changes his.

If you truly have a dead zone in your bedroom you could add a transceiver in that room (this is what you though you had with the Rf repeater).  Since your Rf reception "sometimes" reaches the CM15a I'd advise the following:

1) Change the bedroom device(s) house code to another unused code (I'll use B for this example).

2) On the CM15a disable "transceived codes" for house code B.  Look under Tools\Hardware Configuration.  Click "specific" and un-check house code B.  This will prevent having two transceivers for this house code.

3) Install a RR501 (or similar) in your bedroom (house code B).  Be careful on the model here.  Other members have reported good luck with the RR501 as it is a smart transceiver that won't produce "collisions" with other X10 traffic. 

The above configuration should allow you to control your bedroom lights from within that room.  The RR501 will probably receive better than the CM15a as well.  You may be able to transmit from outside your bedroom reliably.

The Boiler

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: HA Dave on June 20, 2007, 05:58:25 PM

Quote from: craig-o on June 20, 2007, 03:39:34 PM

I've seen the first part of a two part tutorial where you can add a better antenna to the CM15A, but I have not been able to find the second part.  Does anyone know where I can find part two? 

Not sure which tutorial your looking for.... but most (if not all) are listed in the thread: Project to increase range of the CM15A (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9470.msg56198#msg56198)

Title: Re: RF remote signal problems
Post by: Hemingray on June 28, 2007, 11:53:20 AM

I don't know if this was ever thought of, But did you check the batteries in your remote? Weak batteries can cause range issues with any RF device.