X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: LorneL on July 01, 2007, 11:37:25 PM

Title: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: LorneL on July 01, 2007, 11:37:25 PM: I tested my appliance 3pin and appliance 2 pin in the same extension cord. 3 pin works fine 2 pin does not. The weird thing about the test is the extion cords ground prong was not connected. Neither module had anything connected on the output.
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: steven r on July 02, 2007, 01:15:32 AM: Do they both work without the extension cord or not?
Do they both work other places or not?

You've only described the tip of the iceberg with regard to your problem.
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: dave w on July 02, 2007, 12:22:24 PM: Assuming the two pin module does indeed work...my bet is the two pin may not work in a lot of places your three pin will, however it has nothing to do with the ground pin on plug or socket, as the ground is not connected to any circuitry inside the module. Your two pin module is probably less sensitive than your three pin. X10 seems to have some "hit and miss" issues with tuning the modules 120KHz filter at the end of the manufacturing process.

If you are electronically technical and have access to an oscilloscope, there are module schematics on the web providing enough information to tune the filter for peak output. There used to be pages describing the process, but I can no longer find them, probably removed for liability reasons. If you are not technical, don't bother searching for the instructions as it is a good way to: 1. get electrocuted, 2. blow the oscilloscope, or 3. release the entrapped smoke from several of the module's components.

If the two pin module is new, send it back for warranty.
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: Brian H on July 02, 2007, 04:24:25 PM: There is even instructions on how to tune them. That said BOOM is a real possibility if one is not careful.
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: dave w on July 02, 2007, 04:54:38 PM: Quote from: Brian H on July 02, 2007, 04:24:25 PM
There is even instructions on how to tune them. That said BOOM is a real possibility if one is not careful.

Yeah, the instructions I read, (was it Ido's page?) had you using a X3 O'scope probe for isolation from the line, but even with that you best not ground the O'scope probe unless you are postive you are clipping to the "nuetral".

I wish I had an isolation xformer and an O'scope, I would tweak all my modules (would take a month, but what the hey).
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: Brian H on July 02, 2007, 07:18:17 PM: I built a custom X10 Isolation Device. Has a fairly small isolation transformer in it and an X10 Pro Phase Coupler. With some creative switches. I can couple a signal back over the transformer or to some binding posts for a scope probe.
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 02, 2007, 10:45:59 PM: Quote from: Brian H on July 02, 2007, 07:18:17 PM

I built a custom X10 Isolation Device. Has a fairly small isolation transformer in it and an X10 Pro Phase Coupler. With some creative switches. I can couple a signal back over the transformer or to some binding posts for a scope probe.

Schematic and Parts List *PLEASE*!

8)
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 02, 2007, 10:55:01 PM: Quote from: dave w on July 02, 2007, 04:54:38 PM

Yeah, the instructions I read, (was it Ido's page?) had you using a X3 O'scope probe for isolation from the line, but even with that you best not ground the O'scope probe unless you are postive you are clipping to the "nuetral".

I wish I had an isolation xformer and an O'scope, I would tweak all my modules (would take a month, but what the hey).

If I had understood that concept "years ago", when I was taking my Bell & Howell Electronics Home Study Course, I might not have had to re-mount the power transformer of the included HeathKit 5MHz scope with PLASTIC screws and washers to stop it from tripping the breaker (after I "attempted" to view 'something' on one of the many BROKEN TVs I had collected "for educational purposes").

At this stage in time, all that comes back to mind is something about "floating chassis" and "polarized plug" - the rest is all FUZZY... :P
Title: Re: [HELP] 3-pin Appliance Module Works; 2-pin Doesn't?!?
Post by: LorneL on July 02, 2007, 11:36:00 PM: I thought the three pin was for sending the signal thru the ground/neutral (especially with fluorescent) that's why I wanted them. Turns out today they work but 2 of the 2 pin.