X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 12:24:17 AM

Title: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 12:24:17 AM
I've been using the same setup for about 18 months now, with absolutely no hitches until the last few days.  Not really sure why it's happening now, either.  I've searched the online help, but can't seem to find anyone who has had the same issue.  Of course, it could be that I simply don't know the right question to ask, either...

Problem:  CM15A doesn't recieve OR transmit codes.  Sometimes, it will receive (I can see them in the activity monitor), but it doesn't transmit.  I have tried a new CM15A that I had in a box, but no joy there.  I've installed the software on a new computer, no joy there, either.  The only thing I can imagine is that *something* is causing interference... but I haven't installed anything new in the house, changed any wires... nothing.  I'm at an absolute loss here.

One of the things I've noticed is that it takes an EXTREMELY long time to download anything to the controller.  I'm talking 45 minutes to download macros that used to take about 2 minutes.  It doesn't matter which one I use, or which version of the AHP I use, it's the same.

All of this leads me to believe that there is something somewhere causing interference.  I suppose I'm looking for advice on the best way to figure out *what* it is, and then how to fix it.  Here's some info on my setup:

I have 8 light switches and 3 lamp modules operating on B.  I have 4 motion sensors used to turn lights on/off operating on A and B.  I have one Applicance module operating on E with the security system (also X10).  I have a motion-sensor floodlight that works on D and will turn on one of the light switches in the basement for a period of time.

A thought just occurred to me... Is it possible that one (or more) of the motion sensors are dying, and sending out signals that are jamming everything up?  That would make sense... It's a little late at night to research, but perhaps someone can offer a thought on that.

I'm really begging for help here.  I can't afford to switch automation systems, and we have really loved X10 up to now.  I'm just baffled why it quit working all of a sudden...

Advice?
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on July 06, 2007, 12:54:25 AM
Your activity log should show if there is a "firestorm" of RF signals from motion detectors.

Have you tried "Clear interface memory" before downloading to the CM15A?

Another possible issue is that some CM15A's (mine for instance) don't play well on a USB 2.0 connection.  Mine only wants to work correctly on an older USB 1.1 connection.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 01:46:46 AM
Thanks for the reply... and the confirmation.  I figured that I'd probably see a very full log is something were jamming it like that.  Nothing in the log at all except what should be there.

I did think about the 2.0 port thing.  I have tried on an older USB port and on a newer.  No performance difference between the two.  I really don't know what else to try, outside of purchasing a new system.  Even then, I'm not sure that would correct the problem, as it *seems* like it has to be something internal to my house. 

If you can think of anything else, I'd certainly appreciate the tips.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: KDR on July 06, 2007, 06:05:42 AM
Quote from: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 12:24:17 AM
One of the things I've noticed is that it takes an EXTREMELY long time to download anything to the controller.  I'm talking 45 minutes to download macros that used to take about 2 minutes.  It doesn't matter which one I use, or which version of the AHP I use, it's the same.

Just thinking out loud here... Have you changed the routing of the USB cable or added an extention cord that might be running parallel to it? Also when you switched CM15A's did you use the same cable or did you switch theses as well. (Maybe a bad USB cable?)

What you might try also... make a backup of your .AHX file and then try making a new setup. Setup 1 module and a simple timer. No macros and try uploading it to the CM15A to see how long it takes.

Have you had any power failures that shutdown AHP running on your computer? Maybe you have a corrupt .AHX file or program file.

Another thing I would like to know is in AHP under "TOOLS - HARDWARE CONFIGURATION what does the "Memory Usage" report?

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR

Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 10:41:24 AM
Thanks for the response.

First item:  I have tried moving to different locations in the house, different computers, different USB ports... No changes on the hardware / location side have made any difference at all.  I had thought about trying your suggestion of making a new file... I'll have to try that tonight.

I can't recall the exact memory usage number, but it's in the 3% range.  Not high at all. 

One thing I did notice... I have a PSC05 line interface... The manual for that device says that the LED should stay on unless it is receiving "a valid command," at which times it will blink.  The LED light is constantly blinking now, even when nothing is being sent (that I'm aware of)... My activity monitor is showing no huge influx of commands, though.  This again leads me to wonder if there is some sort of problem with a device somewhere on the circuit.  How can I best test that theory?
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Brian H on July 06, 2007, 01:11:55 PM
The flashing of the LED maybe powerline noise. If the noise is randome and not a stuck X10 sender. The log may not show any valid X10 traffic.
Anything new in the home? Even something you may not think of. I saw a new cell phone charger make so much noise it killed a large part of an X10 system.
You may want to try unplugging the PSC05 as it maybe locked up and sending strange stuff. If that does nothing maybe disconnecting devices in the home while observing the PSC05s LED may show an offending device. Try disconnecting the CM15A and watch the LED on the PSC05 on the off chance it is doing strange things.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Boiler on July 06, 2007, 01:58:24 PM
bmize13,

As Brian H suggested, try pulling the PSC05 to see if it's the culprit.  If not, you've just found a troubleshooting tool!

Re-install your PSC05 and unplug your CM15a (don't want and transeived RF or macro's activating).  Start shutting down breakers until your PSC05 begins acting normally.  You've found your problem circuit!  You should then be able to narrow it down to a specific device on that circuit by again watching the PSC05 activity.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 02:27:19 PM
Hadn't quite thought of it like that... A troubleshooting tool!  Cool!  I did unplug the PSC05 for a couple of days, but nothing improved.  I actually unplugged because I saw the light blinking, and didn't remember it doing that before. 

Powerline noise makes tons of sense.  And now that I've got my handy-dandy troubleshooting device, maybe I can narrow down the culprit fairly quickly.  I'll let y'all know how that goes, in the event it might help the next person.

Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 06, 2007, 10:19:04 PM
Wanted to post my follow up reply... After getting back in from work, I began searching the house for a device that was causing electronic interference on the lines.  Upstairs: Nothing.  Downstairs: Nothing.  Taking my "noise-detector" with me, I ventured to the basement and found the culprit.  It seems that my phase coupler (Smarthomes Signalinc 4826A) is having some issues.  I've had it installed behind my dryer for 18 months now, and never had any problems.  It seems that it will now get "stuck" (for lack of a better word) in the Transmit position, and send tons of interference across the lines.  Unplugging this device made everything go back to normal.  Plugging back in, it worked for about 20 minutes, then got stuck again.  I'm going to leave it totally unplugged and determine if I even need one of these.  I've got a few transceivers around here that may do the trick when combined with the PSC05.

Thanks for helping me through this.  I'm sitting on my couch again, King of my domain!  One click, and the lights will be turned down for the movie Wife and I are going to enjoy tonight.

Whew... I really feel better!
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on July 06, 2007, 11:07:50 PM
Cool!   8)

Thanks for letting us know what you found!   8)   ;D
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Boiler on July 07, 2007, 01:03:36 AM
Nice job of troubleshooting.  You must have been doing some serious searching to have located the offending item (in the basement behind the dryer?).  I hadn't thought of an active coupler generating noise (need to add that to the list).

Glad to hear you have a happy household again - thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Brian H on July 07, 2007, 06:05:30 AM
My 4826B [3 Pin version] has also done the samething. In my case cycle the power and it is OK. I also know in my case the Status request on powering up a LM14A or AM14A two way X10 module will also start a signal firestorm on my power lines. I have also seen it get flaky with my RR501; but that turned out to be the RR501s power supply getting poor and sending strange stuff on the power lines.
My ACT CR234 should be in service shortly.
Thanks for sharing the findings on your problem.
Who would have thought the traffic LED on a PSC05 would be a troubleshooting aid. ::)
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Walt2 on July 07, 2007, 07:20:16 AM
Quote from: Brian H on July 07, 2007, 06:05:30 AM
My 4826B [3 Pin version] has also done the samething. In my case cycle the power and it is OK. I also know in my case the Status request on powering up a LM14A or AM14A two way X10 module will also start a signal firestorm on my power lines.

I had the same experience with the 4826B, I ended up returning.   I too got the non-stop signal firestorm.  :(
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Boiler on July 07, 2007, 08:36:11 AM
Brian,
Let us know how you like the ACT CR234 when you get it installed. 

I have a Leviton HCA02.  After I installed it I learned it wasn't "completely compatible" with the CM15a (more work arounds). 
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: HA Dave on July 07, 2007, 05:54:05 PM
Thanks bmize13 .....for following up with a reply to let us all know what the problem was and that the problem was resolved. Although I never contributed to this thread, I did follow it, as do many of the regulars here at the forum.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Brian H on July 07, 2007, 06:09:04 PM
When I get the CR234 installed I will post findings. I have seen others say it is s good unit.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: bmize13 on July 07, 2007, 10:15:03 PM
To me, there's not much that's more frustrating than *finally* coming across a thread that discusses the EXACT issue you are experiencing, then getting to the end only to find out that the OP never responded back with their "fix"...  I'm not sure, but I think that's cause for corporal punishment in some third-world countries. :D

I don't post much here, but I do read alot, and have found many answers to my questions just by browsing.  It's a great resource, to be sure!
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Boiler on July 07, 2007, 10:29:17 PM
bmize13,

Unfortunately many of the "me" generation fix (or don't) their problem and just go silently into the night (without so much as a thought about the other forum members).  Thanks again for not being one of these people.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: TakeTheActive on July 07, 2007, 11:16:09 PM
Quote from: Boiler on July 07, 2007, 10:29:17 PM

Unfortunately many of the " me " Generation fix (or don't) their problem and just go silently into the night (without so much as a thought about the other forum members)...

HEY! :o That's *MY* Catch-All Phrase for that ' annoying ' generation of folks!!! :P

" me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me! ", " me " :P
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: gdkramer on July 09, 2007, 10:36:46 PM
Whoa, this is freaky, so many people suddenly experiencing the firestorm problem all of the sudden. Mine started a couple of weeks ago, out of the blue, my X10 system quit turning on and off lights. I reset my CM15A, still had the problems, bought a whole house power line filter (install over neutral wire in breaker box and connect to neutral, and both sides of the split-phase. Still no help. So it wasn't external signals coming in. Then I installed a XPCR, and unplugged my SignaLinc 4816B2 that is when all hell broke loose. The system started working again on most circuits. Then I noticed in my activity log in AHP the firestorm. Started reading on the internet that the CM15A and XPCR do not cohabitate. The CM15A is a 2-way device that initiates a firestorm and the XPCR keeps repeating. So I disconnected the XPCR and no longer have my 4816B2 plugged in, and I not have a good portion of my system back. I have no clue on what suddenly caused the 4816B2 to start jamming signals and am upset I wasted money on buying the XPCR that will not work properly with the CM15A. I have an X10 signal strength meter on it's way, would love to get my system back to normal. I've been an X10 home for over 20 years now and feel lost without full control.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: HA Dave on July 09, 2007, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: gdkramer on July 09, 2007, 10:36:46 PM

Whoa, this is freaky, so many people suddenly experiencing the firestorm problem all of the sudden. Mine started a couple of weeks ago, out of the blue, ...................................................


Not so sure it's all that freaky. I am kinda "old-fashioned" in some ways.....  In the past few weeks have UN-plugged (many) devices several times as lighting storms pasted through my area. Lighting may always be a plague to our electronic devices.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: gdkramer on July 09, 2007, 11:59:34 PM
No Dave, a "firestorm" is not lightening storm, but a continuous loop. An X10 signal getting caught in a neverending repeating loop. Let's say for example: "M3 on" over and over again. That is a "firestorm" or a "signal storm".

My problems did not start with any weather related storms.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Brian H on July 10, 2007, 06:59:45 AM
Got my CR234 installed over the weekend. Not had a lot of time for extended tests, but the one thing I know has changed. An LM14A or AM14A two way module; when first connected no longer start a firestorm of X10 data on the powerlines as it did with my Smarthome repeater.
At present I do not have a in service CM15A so that never was a part of the equation as the LM14A or AM14A fought with the old repeater all by themselves.
Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Walt2 on July 10, 2007, 07:50:39 AM
Quote from: gdkramer on July 09, 2007, 10:36:46 PM
I have no clue on what suddenly caused the 4816B2 to start jamming signals ...

Yea, as I mentioned, my SignaLinc 4826 did the same thing, and I was quite disappointed.  I had my hopes on it solving all my X10 signal problems being it was both a phase coupler, and a "smart" signal strength repeater/amp.

I went back to my old passive coupler, and I added a BoosterLinc 4827 into the outlet right next to my breaker box.  I have not had any problems with the 4827 causing any "firestorms" even with status from my 2-way lamp modules.  The BoosterLinc solved all my X10 PLC communication problems within my house.

My biggest problem with the Smarthome SignalLinc was that I quickly found out that Smarthome doesn't provide any support unless you buy their Smarthome branded products directly from them.  >:(

Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: Geewiz on January 15, 2008, 03:29:41 PM
Quote from: gdkramer on July 09, 2007, 10:36:46 PM
... Started reading on the internet that the CM15A and XPCR do not cohabitate. The CM15A is a 2-way device that initiates a firestorm and the XPCR keeps repeating.

Just came across this post and the comment that the XPCR and CM15A are NOT compatible.  Can't find any search related info and am wondering if anyone has any solid info on this claim?

I ordered a XPCR and am awaiting its delivery so I can install it..actually had to return the first one because it was DOA.  I've taken some photos of my installation to accompany a "how to" guide that some may find helpful when doing a DIY installation.  I'll post that once I finalize the install and get some experience on its effectiveness.

Title: Re: CM15A has me stumped...
Post by: gdkramer on January 15, 2008, 03:43:17 PM
I had to uninstall the XPCR. It caused what is referrer to as a "firestorm" or a signal storm. The CM15A is a 2 way device. The XPCR takes the received signal and repeats it. The CM15A sees that signal and resends it. Causing a neverending loop.
The XPCR is a waste of money if you have 2 way controllers. Sorry.  I learned from experience.  By the way, watch out for cheap compact fluorescent lamps. They can block signals.