X10 Community Forum

💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: nklght on September 03, 2007, 03:58:08 AM

Title: Revamp X-10
Post by: nklght on September 03, 2007, 03:58:08 AM: X-10 needs to revamp their current offering,
They need to offer modules which do not require user modifications inorder to get them to work the way an user wants to work, they need to listen to the users of the products. We all agree that the CM-15A needs some sort of range modification, create a CM-20 that is backwords compatible, and will give users the range they desire. That will answer many problems that users currently have.

X-10 should also sell phase couplers and filters, a person can purchase everything they need to create a home automation system, except for one or two items that are neccessary to make it work.

They should also create new modules so a user can do some new age items without spending thousands, for the hardware. If a person already has a controller, then X-10 should have modules which a user can use, instead of having to purchase modules from a different company and modifying them to work with X-10.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 03, 2007, 09:25:31 PM: All good ideas.

I would add: X10USA must mass market. (Right now, it doesn't.)
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: arf1410 on September 04, 2007, 10:58:20 AM: May be a good suggestion, but odds of it happening are very small. X10 as a company appears to do minimal developmental work, as their goal seems to be low prices, rather than quality or function. Lets be honest : X10 as a protocol is a dieing technology for a variety of reasons, yet X10 the company does not want to invest in the future, and I don't think things will change...
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: HA Dave on September 04, 2007, 01:43:22 PM: I wonder if these posts should have been posted in the RANTS thread.

Quote from: nklght on September 03, 2007, 03:58:08 AM

They need to offer modules which do not require user modifications in order to get them to work the way an user wants to work

X10 offers a wide variety of devices.... many are sold through other company's. Most were cutting edge at the time they were introduced. I have read of many amazing things people have accomplished using X10. Most of these impressive setups are one-of-a-kind user ideas. I am just glad X10 can be so easily modified and is flexable.

Quote from: Dan Lawrence on September 03, 2007, 09:25:31 PM

All good ideas.

I would add: X10USA must mass market. (Right now, it doesn't.)

I don't think there is a MASS out there for X10 to market to.

Quote from: arf1410 on September 04, 2007, 10:58:20 AM

X10 as a company appears to do minimal developmental work ..................

X10 is BOTH the mother and father of home automation. X10 has been (not on... but) THE cutting edge of home automation since the beginning. Just try to find a better interface then X10's. The current state-of-the-art is the CM15A. X10 has even made the SDK available for anyone and everyone that wants to do more (see: third party software (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?board=36.0)) than can already be done with a suite of available software (all for $50).

I only wish I had the imagination needed, to be disappointed with the progress of HA.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: arf1410 on September 05, 2007, 12:14:27 AM: Quote

The current state-of-the-art is the CM15A....

Quote

That quote basically proves my point...along with the fact that filters are needed, flourescent lights don't work well with the system, power strips and battery backups can suck signals, and circuits must be "bridged." These are all work arounds because the X10 protocol is just not robust enough for modern houses.

While Z-wave and Insteon may not be perfect yet, at least some other companies realize that X10 protocol will go the way of the typerwriter, and are making an attempt to move forward.

And I do not believe the X10 Company actually developed the X10 protocol. Can someone verify that?
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: TakeTheActive on September 05, 2007, 01:15:47 AM: Quote from: arf1410 on September 05, 2007, 12:14:27 AM

And I do not believe the X10 Company actually developed the X10 protocol. Can someone verify that?

Why don't *YOU* GOOGLE it and report back with your findings...
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: Brian H on September 05, 2007, 06:59:01 AM: I also would do a search. I found the X10 patents in one of my searches.
Also until they expired. X10 MADE you use a TW523 or PL513 Interface to use X10 signals with your equipment. If not a lawyer maybe calling you.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: arf1410 on September 05, 2007, 06:28:56 PM: taken from the smarthome website:

"A Brief History of X10 - The X10 Power Line Carrier (PLC) technology was originally developed in the 1970s by Pico Electronics in Scotland. Pico formed a joint venture with BSR in 1978 called X-10 Ltd. and the first shipments of X10 products began in 1979. Over the 18 years that followed, millions of X10 compatible devices have shipped and the number of different X10 compatible products has grown from a handful in 1979 to hundreds today. X-10 Ltd. bought out BSR’s interest in 1987. The original X10 patent expired in December 1997. X10 is now an open standard and many manufacturers are developing new and improved X10 products."

which supports my premise that X-10 keeps prices down by doing little development work. Has the basic lamp module changed much (if at all) since the mid 1980s?
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: Brian H on September 05, 2007, 06:42:58 PM: Yes the new Lamp Modules now have soft start and act differently with dim commands. I believe the new Wall Switches also do.
So things have changed but took a long time.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 05, 2007, 07:10:13 PM: It would have been nice if X10USA would have either given both a new number or suffixed an N after the current number, but apparently that's not how X10USA does things.

The only way we found out was people bought some and had problems. >:(
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: HA Dave on September 05, 2007, 07:41:48 PM: Quote from: arf1410 on September 05, 2007, 12:14:27 AM

.......................other companies realize that X10 protocol will go the way of the typerwriter........

A point I think we can all agree on! YES.... X10 protocol will go the way of the typewriter (or fence-stretcher, tubed TV, Cd's, etc). As far as HA... these may be the crystal-radio days of Home Automation. But with the technology available (which is every bit of what the market demands) many have managed to do some REALLY COOL stuff.

Is it easy... is it out-of-the-box ready.... does it actually setup in 30 minutes (or less)..... no.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: nklght on September 13, 2007, 10:47:23 PM: If there is not a market for mass home automation, then why are other corporations spending R&D dollars on creating newer protocols, and then marketing those products at mass retailer's.
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: dave w on September 14, 2007, 12:34:25 PM: Quote from: nklght on September 13, 2007, 10:47:23 PM
If there is not a market for mass home automation, then why are other corporations spending R&D dollars on creating newer protocols, and then marketing those products at mass retailer's.
What mass retailers are you refering to?
Title: Re: Revamp X-10
Post by: gil shultz on September 26, 2007, 12:55:42 AM: Good Evening,

X10 has problems, most are inherent because of the environment it operates in. The power line is a very undefined environment and no two are alike. Yes it does not work in every instance, Yes it is not the most reliable cookie on the block, Yes the technology has been around a lot of years and Yes it is cheep.

I expect until something better comes along that is price competitive it will be around and give it credit it is the standard others measure against. Also it has a very large installed base, not much can compete with that today.

Have Fun
Gil Shultz