X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: s0urc3f0ur on December 10, 2007, 06:38:09 PM
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There are probably threads for this already..but i am too tired to search for them(long day). my dang ws467 recieves an on command from ahp and a palm bad.. but does not get the off command. Phase is not the issue nor is noise as i have filtered the area that the switch is located. how ever i did happen to trip the breaker while running the vaccum the other and am wondering if i fried something in the wall switch. locally the swtich works fine.ANy suggestions, tips, etc?
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Still could be a weak signal or noise. Are the lights being controlled standard ones?
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it's a ceiling fan.. but has been working perfectly for months.. it jsut quit receiving the off command yesterday. I also have two other lamps in the living room that work perfectly as well as some holiday lights on my banister that work great as well. I have another wall switch that conrols my outdoor light that has no problems at all. All are on the same breaker circuit and have been working for 4 months or so .
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To properly control a ceiling fan, use a Pro Wall Switch Appliance Module (XPDI3). A WS467 is not suited for motors.
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Dan is right, a WS467 should not be used to control an inductive load. Use the XPDI3 since it is made to control (speed) of inductive loads. However that doesn't explain the sudden failure. If the button on the switch still turns the fan ON and OFF then the triac is still good so that leads back to a possible noise issue. Does fan speed have any effect on the OFF response? Turn off the Christmas lights and try it.
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I turned off every light in the room and tried it with ahp. On works fine but still no off.
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I turned off every light in the room and tried it with ahp. On works fine but still no off.
Still attempting to use a WS467? It's probably burned out part of the triac, so on works but off doesn't. As Dave w pointed out, the WS467 should Never be used with an inductive load like a 3 speed fan.
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Still attempting to use a WS467? It's probably burned out part of the triac, so on works but off doesn't.
Dan Lawrence,
I think you missed:
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locally the swtich works fine.
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Makes me think the triac is okay.
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Agreed, Bill, but the OP still needs to stop using a WS467 to control a fan. Perhaps the fan is the noise source, which explains why on works, but off doesn't. I have a 3-speed overhead fan in my living room, and use a XPDI3 to control it, and the XPDI3 works fine to turn the fan on and off.
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The switch has worked fine for about 5 months. On and Off all both worked up until a few days ago. The only thing that has happened that I could posiblly think of is that my breaker tripped while the fan/light was on and since then the off command is not getting recieved at the switch.
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I had the same thing happen this weekend. I installed a florescent wall switch to control a ceiling fan fixture with pull string control and three CFLs. The lights would turn on but not off. I started troubleshooting. Turned off the lights via pull string, turned on the fan using handheld RF remote, the fan worked on AND off. Turned off the fan using pull string. Using same handheld RF remote, lights would turn on but not off. The ceiling fan downstairs has four CFLs and works fine, so I go and get one of the CFLs out of that one. Come to find out, if I use two CFLs it works just great, using three CFLs it will turn on but not off. I believe it is a filter problem.
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It could be noise from the fan itself, or a CFL (somewhere else) that is starting to go bad.
The "On" and "Off" signals are different, so it is possible that the noise will interfere with one signal and not the other.
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Are the CFLs in the down stairs fan the same brand? I use GE 23W CFLs in a ceiling fan. When on they peg an old ESM noise meter, but X10 signals can still get through.
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I believe since neither fan or CFL are on when I engage the on signal, the signal is allowed to pass, but when the fan and CFL are on and I am trying to turn them off the noise from the CFLs is interfering. Without the CFLs the fan works both ways. I will try some incandescent lights until my new filters arrive. I have not checked model numbers but all of the CFLs being tested are made by GE. Thanks guys!
-Bob
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I believe since neither fan or CFL are on when I engage the on signal, the signal is allowed to pass, but when the fan and CFL are on and I am trying to turn them off the noise from the CFLs is interfering. Without the CFLs the fan works both ways. I will try some incandescent lights until my new filters arrive. I have not checked model numbers but all of the CFLs being tested are made by GE. Thanks guys!
-Bob
Brand might not matter. One of the CFL bulbs could be going bad, and creating the noise. Try unscrewing them one at a time, and testing if that fixes the issue.
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I just received some XPF filters that I ordered to filter my ceiling fan/light fixture. Can these things get any bigger? I am going to have knock out a big chunk of my ceiling just to put it in. B:( It might be easier to install it at the wall switch. We live in a world where things are getting smaller and smaller (including our wallets!) Why can't X10 stuff follow the trend? Just my $.02. -Bob
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You picked a 20 amp filter. Made to do a whole branch circuit if needed.
Yes it is very large. As coils heavy enough for 20 amps are not small.
If the load was under 5 amps there is a Leviton 6287 that is quite small and fits in many electrical boxes.
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I'll add that I have another ws467 I just noticed will turn on but not off with either the palm pad or through ahp. This switch is wired to a ceiling light with a standard bulb. I don't know when it stopped turning off, but it also works fine manually at the switch.
I just reinstalled 3.313 after wiping out the install and trying 3.296 for a problem I have in another thread, but I never checked this switch when I had 3.296 installed. So I don't know if it is version related. I doubt it is but anything is possible.
I have two other ws467's installed and they are working via ahp and the palm pad just fine. In fact, the other 2 switches are running lights with 5 standard bulbs. The problem switch is only running one bulb.
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I'll add that I have another ws467 I just noticed will turn on but not off with either the palm pad or through ahp. This switch is wired to a ceiling light with a standard bulb. I don't know when it stopped turning off, but it also works fine manually at the switch.
I just reinstalled 3.313 after wiping out the install and trying 3.296 for a problem I have in another thread, but I never checked this switch when I had 3.296 installed. So I don't know if it is version related. I doubt it is but anything is possible.
I have two other ws467's installed and they are working via ahp and the palm pad just fine. In fact, the other 2 switches are running lights with 5 standard bulbs. The problem switch is only running one bulb.
When you say "switch" I presume you are referring to a standard light switch. What module are you using?
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rofl
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When you say "switch" I presume you are referring to a standard light switch. What module are you using?
Switch = WS467
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A WS467 is not a "switch", it is a wall switch MODULE. A regular wall switch is NOT an X10 module. BTW, the WS467 comes in 2 "flavors", Soft-Start and non soft-start "old style" modules. AHP handles each type differently.
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?
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A WS467 is not a "switch", it is a wall switch MODULE. A regular wall switch is NOT an X10 module. BTW, the WS467 comes in 2 "flavors", Soft-Start and non soft-start "old style" modules. AHP handles each type differently.
Dan -
I'm pretty sure you knew he was talking about an X-10 wall switch module, and not a "dumb" toggle switch. I don't think anyone on this forum expects a "dumb" toggle switch to respond to X10 commands.
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I'm sorry I didn't make my post clear when I used the term switch for a ws467. I know how words can be misunderstood. I just wanted to add that I too have a ws467 that is no longer turning off. It will turn on with either ahp or a palm pad. It just will not turn off from either ahp or a palm pad.
It used to work fine so I don't know what changed. I'll have to try a few things this weekend. Like maybe swapping it out with a known working ws467. I have 2 others in another room that do work so I will swap one of them and see if the good one works where the bad one is and vise versa.
BTW, the ws467 that isn't working has a standard incandescent 60 watt bulb in the ceiling fixture. The 2 ws467's that are working each have 5 60 watt incandescent bulbs. The w467 with the turning off problem will turn off at the wall module manually.
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It is certainly possible that the ws467 went bad. That can happen.
However, you might just have other noise, or a marginal signal in that area, and maybe it is harder for the ws467 to "hear" the "off" command than it is to hear the "on" command. They are different commands.
How are you getting the RF signal onto the powerline? Are you using the same CM15A? If so, then there would be no difference between using AHP or a PalmPad, in terms of the PLC signal strength being sent from the CM15A.
If you can move the CM15A to an outlet that is ELECTRICALLY closer to the ws467 (same circuit, would be best, or at least a circuit on the same phase), you can test if it responds better that way.
If you haven't already seen it, I wrote up an explanation of noise and signal suckers a while back.
Here is a link to that post:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=22998.msg131366#msg131366
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It is certainly possible that the ws467 went bad. That can happen.
However, you might just have other noise, or a marginal signal in that area, and maybe it is harder for the ws467 to "hear" the "off" command than it is to hear the "on" command. They are different commands.
How are you getting the RF signal onto the powerline? Are you using the same CM15A? If so, then there would be no difference between using AHP or a PalmPad, in terms of the PLC signal strength being sent from the CM15A.
If you can move the CM15A to an outlet that is ELECTRICALLY closer to the ws467 (same circuit, would be best, or at least a circuit on the same phase), you can test if it responds better that way.
If you haven't already seen it, I wrote up an explanation of noise and signal suckers a while back.
Here is a link to that post:
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=22998.msg131366#msg131366
Yes, I've read that and it is very helpful. I am using a cm15a which is still plugged in at the same spot where it once worked. I guess I can unplug it, move it the the bathroom and see what happens. Would be easier than swapping the modules. I also have a tm751 I can test with. I'll try it this weekend and report back.
I'm actually thinking of replacing the ws467's with the inline pro units (model number escapes me) and just cover the switch plates. Then I'll just use the plug-in mini controllers and the slim wall switches. That way ahp will always know the status of the light.
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Yes, I've read that and it is very helpful. I am using a cm15a which is still plugged in at the same spot where it once worked. I guess I can unplug it, move it the the bathroom and see what happens. Would be easier than swapping the modules. I also have a tm751 I can test with. I'll try it this weekend and report back.
Keep an eye on which circuit that outlet is on. PHYSICALLY closer is not the same as ELECTRICALLY closer, and might not give you a true test.
I'm actually thinking of replacing the ws467's with the inline pro units (model number escapes me) and just cover the switch plates. Then I'll just use the plug-in mini controllers and the slim wall switches. That way ahp will always know the status of the light.
A few years ago, I replaced all of my ws467's with Smarthome ToggleLinc switches (I got the Insteon V2 versions). They are a bit pricey at about $45 each, but they send their PLC code when you manually operate them (so when I turn on C2 at the switch, it sends a "C2 On" along the powerline. My CM15A sees that and reports the correct state, and it also turns on the other ToggleLinc I have on C2 (I have two separate switches controlling my outside lights, but both are set to the same code). The newest switches I bought are all "relay" switches (so I can use CFL bulbs in those fixtures), but they do make dimming switches, too. (I have a few of those, too).