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Have any of you used the new Powerflash modules? I just got 3 and it looks like they changed the formula!
In "B" (dry contact) mode, they no longer put out 5 volts, now they only put out 1 volt. I found that if my wires and relay have more then about 100 ohms resistance, they don't work! I checked all my old ones ( I have about 7) and all of them put out about 5 volts. The brand new ones (marked with a 07H33) won't work in a slew of my applications. It is terrible...
Let me know if anyone else has seen this or if this is just a bad batch of modules....
Maybe X10 needs to learn the lessons that "new coke" learned the hard way....... :-)
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Thanks for the heads up. X10 has changed many modules. Mostly due to having to use more modernly available parts or assembly techniques.
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I have seen changes in the past, but this one makes inop other sensors that used to work with them and isn't just a slight change in performance. I hope someone out there can confirm my testing. I plan to return mine. I think these last ones were purchased from Smarthome but need to check.
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I just got 2 from SmartHome on a deal. I will check the date code and do a test on them to see what I have and post back here.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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I got confirmation from another user that his dry contact relays don't work with the new Powerflashes. :-[
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I got one from Smarthome last month, and one on E-Bay last week. They are hooked up to dry contacts, and they both work perfectly.
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They *may* work correctly, depending on application. Check the batch number (round sticky with a number on it.) Also, disconnect the wires, plug the unit in and put the Powerflash switch in "B" mode. Read the voltage on the two screws terminals of the Powerflash. If it reads 5 volts or so, it is good in all applications. If it only reads 1 volt or so it is the new/ faulty version, 140 ohms resistance in your wires or relay etc. will cause it not to work. Let me know what you find, thanks.
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(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/xmasl.gif)
I checked my 4 units and here's what I got...
3 units with date code 06L49 and 5 volts
1 unit with date code 06E21 and 5 volts
The first 3 are standard X10 and the last unit is the PSC01 Pro version. These 4 units were purchased from SmartHome through a clearance sale they had awhile back.
Happy Holidays
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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I bet my ELK Doorbell detector that steals the power from the Powerflash would also fail with the new ones ???.
The WGL PF8 [8 inputs] has only a small TTL [I think ] level on its terminals and the ELK does not work with it.
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KDR. Thanks for the scoop, that is exactly what we are seeing. Your date codes are from good units and have the right voltage so should work with everything.
Brian, you nailed it. Anything that uses even the slightest amount of power from the Powerflash won't work any longer (current drain of over 150 microamps). This means that ALOT of sensors from Smarthome will no longer work. It also means that any contact closure for some of X10's stuff that has long wires or some resistance won't work either.
Really dumb move by X10 or they have a large "lot" of bad units that they should pull back....
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(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/xmasl.gif)
At this point its hard to say if its a planned change or an accident. Being that the units are made in Chine the manufacture may have changed a component that X10 doesn't know about to cut costs maybe.
Happy Holidays
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
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At this point its hard to say if its a planned change or an accident.
Does the Power Flash even have a spec'ed output voltage?
I read "The interface can be set to be triggered by either a low voltage input (6-18 volts AC, DC or audio) or a dry contact closure." I see nothing about it suppose to be powering or outputting anything. I mean, if it use to output 5v on the screw terminals, then I think that was an unintended consequence.
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Yes I don't think there was a specified voltage on the output pins in the dry closure mode. In fact if your module like my ELK Doorbell sensor that has solid state devices on it and is polarity sensitive. The + mark on the Input screws is the - side of the output voltage to detect the dry closure. The + is if you use the low voltage function and it is DC.
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Walt/ Brian,
You are correct that is not a specified voltage. The only reason I have described the issue that way is that it is the only way to recognize the change in the design or the "bad" units. With that said, they DO specify that in B mode this is for "dry contact closure" and to no longer work because the dry-contacts and wire have a little over 100 ohms resistance means a lot of interfaces will no longer work with these units. They HAVE to put a voltage across to sense when the dry contacts close and by lowering it from 5.3 volts to around 1 Volt means that even RF noise around the wires can disrupt the signal. Further, as little as 150 micro amps of current now will set it off. There is no margin now for false triggering.
KDR may have hit it on the head that this was an accident. I can't imagine them doing this after 10+ years of such a solid design even with parts obsolecense. The reason I say that is this: If I have a working control or security system and the powerflash goes bad, I buy a new one. If the new powerflash doesn't work with my system, I don't question the system, I send back the powerflash as "broken". What a pain for the resellers......and a black eye for X-10.....
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...I can't imagine them doing this after 10+ years of such a solid design even with parts obsolescence....
Me either. Maybe a resistance value got changed in error that is dropping the voltage.
I'd love to hear some feedback from someone that has an old and a new one and is brave enough to open them up side by side.
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The voltage difference is a good way to see what version you have. I have seen a schematic of an older ones input. X10 has some unique ways to do things. Since it is a powerline driven power supply and has to be isolated. They have a oscillator/transformer circuit that makes the voltage. When the contacts close it changes the circuits oscillation characteristics and the change triggers things.
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One of the other Board guys told me that his local X10 reseller confirmed the problem and had contacted the manufacturer, so we may hear something back that way. I hate to tear one of these open, so many of the components are unmarked or are part of a single chip that it is tough to determine differences.
As for me, I am going to see if I can hit up some of the resellers for a few older models just in case...
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...One of the other Board guys told me that his local X10 reseller confirmed the problem and had contacted the manufacturer, so we may hear something back that way....
It's ashamed that we have to pursue such an indirect approach to find it out. Please post anything that you hear.
...As for me, I am going to see if I can hit up some of the resellers for a few older models just in case...
I'm inclined to agree! Do we have date code(s) to avoid?
I have 2 powerflash applications in my setup. One triggers from a voltage output of my alarm panel to flash my lights. The other is a dry contact application that might not preform as well with the lower voltage. Since I use it in the automated closing of my garage door, I really am not interested in pressing my luck if I had to replace it with a "new & improved" model.
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I am hoping other people on the board have avenues where they can explore this as well so we can get answers. I'm with you though, there isn't much information. When I contacted 2 of my normal resellers, they first told me I didn't know what I was talking about and then checked and confirmed what we had found... but didn't have answers. To their credit, they offered to replace the ones I bought, but only with more of what they had...namely lot 07h33..... :-(
"Bad" lot is 07h33 but again, it depends on your app.