X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: Dmeister on February 01, 2008, 08:35:49 AM
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Hi all! New poster here, and relatively new to x10.
Earlier this year I purchased 3 AM466 modules and used the "Defeating local current sensing" and "Modifying appliance modules for local control" modifications found on idobartana.com with great success. I now use these three modules with lamps with fluorescent bulbs.
I just bought a fourth AM466 and the layout of the board is completely different, as are the components. I have uploaded two high res pictures to my website for reference:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/x10/am466-1.jpg
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/x10/am466-2.jpg
Does anyone know how to modify these new modules to accomplish the same thing as the older modules? ("Defeating local current sensing" and "Modifying appliance modules for local control")
Thanks for any help you can provide!
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Welcome to the forum and the wonderful world of automation!
If anyone has modified one like those, they'll be here.
X10 has been know to make hardware changes without model number changes. If you could post date codes of the AM466s you have, it will help folks here document the changes.
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The old ones that followed the modifiable design were 06K48.
The new one with the new circuitboard has the date code 07L50. This would make it Dec '07 if I understand the date code scheme.
-Dmeister
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Thank you for the photos of the new board. We have had others with the same request, but until today had no actual photos of the boards or data from X10.
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I just bought a fourth AM466 and the layout of the board is completely different, as are the components. I have uploaded two high res pictures to my website for reference:
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/x10/am466-1.jpg
http://www.flashlightreviews.com/x10/am466-2.jpg
Does anyone know how to modify these new modules to accomplish the same thing as the older modules? ("Defeating local current sensing" and "Modifying appliance modules for local control")
Thanks for any help you can provide!
great input!
You can always " 'speriment".
Local sensing componets have to:
1. "See" the load by monitoring the output side of the relay.
2. Couple that signal back to the chip for control.
Those componets just to the "west" of the output side of the relay (big black wire jumper from relay to the "hot" side of the output socket). Looks like a resistor and a small signal diode. If you don't mind voiding your warranty and you can handle a soldering iron, try clipping the lead at the top of the resistor, reassemble the module and test. If that does not work, solder cut lead back together. Then look at that small jumper located between two diodes and two transistors near the output sockets. Clip that and see what happens again.
I need to buy a couple of of appliance modules and when I get them I will try the above.
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Thanks for the input so far, everyone! The "resistor clip" has been tried by one other person (I found a post elsewhere) and the only result was that the relay sprung back open immediately after closing, so that's a no-go. I'm not an electronics guru, but I'm good with a soldering iron, provided I have instructions - hence the request for help!
Keep 'em coming!
If anyone needs closeups, let me know, I have plenty of bandwidth. I'll just add more pics on my server space.
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Thanks for the input so far, everyone! The "resistor clip" has been tried by one other person (I found a post elsewhere) and the only result was that the relay sprung back open immediately after closing, so that's a no-go. I'm not an electronics guru, but I'm good with a soldering iron, provided I have instructions - hence the request for help!
Keep 'em coming!
If anyone needs closeups, let me know, I have plenty of bandwidth. I'll just add more pics on my server space.
Would you mind trying a quick experiment with one of your new AM466?
X-10 added Extended Code functions to the redesigned LM465 and WS467 lamp modules. This experiment will determine whether they also added Extended Code functions to the redesigned AM466 appliance module.
Set the address of the module to an otherwise unused housecode and unit code address.
In ActiveHome Pro, drag in the icon for the LM14A 2-way Lamp Module (yes, that's right) and set its address to that of the module.
Drag the brightness slider in the icon all the way up, wait about 3 seconds, then click the on/off switch on the icon.
Now repeat the above - drag the slider to the top, wait, then click the on/off switch.
Listen to hear if the module relay clicks on and off during the repeat of the above.
Let us know the results. Thanks.
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Charles - I'd love to help, but I'm not using ActiveHome for my automation. I'm just starting out and this all comes about because our professional home alarm system has X-10 scheduling capability for 8 devices, including the X-10 siren. It can perform basic on-off activities based on a schedule or alarm system device "events". With a little expansion I can now use an X-10 wireless remote/transceiver or our alarm system remote to turn on our porch light as well as others in the house. By the way, the wall switch I purchased for the porch light is also the latest-and-greatest version (with the soft start and soft stop when you turn the light on and off, and dimming at the switch.)
Eventually only the new modules will be on the market and as new folks get into this they are most likely going to want to know how to use these devices with compact fluorescent light bulbs. The only ways to make this work that I've found (based on the available info) is to use a socket rocket either by itself or in-line with an extension cord (with plug and socket adapters) or to modify the appliance modules. Now that the old appliance modules will soon be rare to find and the old mods won't work, everyone would benefit greatly from an electronics guru messing around with the new appliance modules and figuring out how to completely kill the local control current sense circuit (for better use with fluorescent bulbs) and add a local on-off switch.
It boggles my mind as to why X-10 doesn't 1) make a complete line of simple "on-off only" modules (no dim, no current sense circuit) specifically for use with compact fluorescent bulbs, which should require less components and be cheaper to make, and 2) add a local momentary on-off switch to EVERY appliance/lamp module so you can flip them on-off if you don't have a remote handy.
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It boggles my mind as to why X-10 doesn't 1) make a complete line of simple "on-off only" modules (no dim, no current sense circuit) specifically for use with compact fluorescent bulbs, which should require less components and be cheaper to make, and 2) add a local momentary on-off switch to EVERY appliance/lamp module so you can flip them on-off if you don't have a remote handy.
Just about everything X-10 does (or doesn't do) boggles my mind.
They'll probably make changes when the CFL versus Incandescent situation starts to cut into their bottom line.
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Any luck on this front? I have a new model AM466 that needs modification and I was wondering if anyone has been successful?
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I have one of them coming in an X10 deal. Sales page also says for CFL Bulbs. Time will tell on CFL use and if disabling sensing is possible.
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My new Date Code 08A02 arrived today. One that X10 says is CFL friendly.
Short test more to follow. So results may change in time. Take as a short test only for now.
I tried four different brand CFL bulbs. None of then re-triggered the module back on after turning off and non flickered when off.
Local sensing was still there.
Compare an old Date Code 01H34 to the new Date Code 08A02 for sensing current when off:
Old unit sensing current 2.37 ma AC 1.69 ma DC [there is a diode in the circuit]
New unit 0.33 ma AC no DC component.
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Brian,
As long as your testing...
Would you mind checking to see if the New AM466's can be programmed with extended code group addresses? I've been playing with some of the new LM465's (can be programmed with group addresses) and am curious whether the new AM466's have a similar capability.
Thanks,
Boiler
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I will see what I can find on both the local control thing and the address thing.
I may start a new review thread in the reviews section also.
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Thanks for the great info on defeating the current sensing so the appliance module works properly with CFLs. I removed the diode from an AM466 with a 6F33 date code and it works great. No more coming back on after turning off. :D
I have boxes full of modules and controllers that I haven't used since I switched to nearly 100% CFLs and fluorescent lamps 10 years ago. Now we can have lamps go on so our doggies aren't in the dark if we don't get home soon enough. #:)
Bill
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I have not forgotten the tests on the extended addresses. Was trying to get my new CM15A and Software installed as all my old ones are in the Date Code range of 2004/2005.
Finally got Customer service to email my missing download file and registration codes.
As for the disabling local controls. My Date Code 08A02 doesn't have enough current from the outlet to trigger on things like CFLs. Just senses when a real toggle of the appliances switch is thrown. Also the new ones only have one sensing circuit. Both the 'am I on or off one' and the local sensing. So if you disable the circuit; I fear a machine gun sound as the switch tried to establish an on or off condition. :'
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Hello, folks. I'm new to the X10 world & have just encountered the dread "local control" problem. However, I have a new model SR227 rather than the (apparently) more common AM466. I assume, though, that the circuits for both units should be nearly the same. I don't notice any "Date Code" on my SR227, but I'd be happy to look for it if someone can suggest where it might be located! In any case, my SR227 seems to have a much more complex circuit than earlier versions. There is a motherboard plus a daughter board above it. This daughter board is held in place by the large number of wires connecting it to the motherboard. As a result, it is quite difficult to trace the circuit!
I'm not sure if this new SR227 has a problem with CFLs, but it certainly DOES have a problem with the small transformer that I'm using to light an LED (which I'm using to indicate that my security system is armed). When the controlled outlet is OFF, the LED flickers at about 1/2 normal brightness. I assume the transformer must be drawing 3-5 watts or so, which is not enough to keep the SR227 happy.
Based on an schematic for an "old" AM466 I've attempted to defeat the current sensing logic by clipping all likely looking diodes (and then re-soldering them!). Unfortunately, nothing seems to work... BTW, I can only see ONE IN400X-type diode, and that one seems to be associated with the processor power supply... All the other diodes seem to small-signal types....
Since these new units appear to have been out for a year or so I'm hoping that someone has determined how to disable current sensing on these new units (or concluded that it is not possible to do so). If anyone has a schematic for the "new" SR277 or AM466 it would certainly help with any modifications!
Thanks,
Wayne
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In the new AM466 there is only one sensing circuit. It does both Local Control sensing and the on or off status. The on off status is needed for the electronics to know if it is on or off. Then it would ignore a command to go on or off if it is in that state already. I believe in mine it is a small signal type but if you cut it it will most likely chatter.
The LEDs flickering also happens with the new AM466s; CFLs seem happy.
Try a small 7 watt night light on the outlet with the LED array. If it is then happy you will know it is the small sensing current.
Rough measurements. Old AM466 2.37 ma AC and 1.69 ma DC [diode actions here] New one 0.33 ma AC no DC component.
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I apologize for not mentioning that I also have a new AM466 unit with a date code of 08A02. I had been using this unit to control the LED transformer with no problems at all, but I thought it would be "neater" to use an SR227. Based on my "transformer results" it seems the SR227 may NOT include the updated circuitry found in the latest AM466! (If it did, I shouldn't be seeing the "current sensing" problem...) On the other hand, the circuit in my SR227 doesn't seem very close to the circuit of the "old" AM466... Does anyone know if a schematic for the SR227 (any version) is available somewhere? Again, sorry for my first message not being complete.
Wayne
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The transformer driven LEDs may not see any problems with the new appliance module. I only saw mine glow 1/2 brightness with direct driven 120 volt LED bulbs. Though CFLs where better.
I will see if I can find any places with schematics.
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I was not able to find any schematics for the SR227 but did solve my problem of the flickering LED by using a different transformer. Both the original transformer and the "new" one were designed to charge Nokia cell phones and have identical specifications. However, their outside cases are a little different and they appear to have been made by different companies (both in China). There are clearly some internal differences since the original puts out about 2VDC when the SR227 is "off" while the "new" unit puts out less that 0.1VDC and does not light the LED at all! With the new transformer, then, all is well... (BTW, the SR227 seems to work fine with CFLs - it is only the "old" LED transformer that had a problem.)
Wayne
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Thank you for the update. Glad it is now working for you.