X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: capt108 on May 08, 2009, 10:11:55 AM
-
In the fall 2008 I had a TM751 wireless transceiver module catch fire and cause major damage,fortunately I heard the fire and put it out quickly.
It was an incandescent bulb(60 watt) & X10 unit was turned off.
The House CB never tripped, and this was not a dimmer type assembly.
It was the on/off variety used as a master controller for house.
Has this happened to anyone else, I sent the unit to X-10 and am still waiting >*< for research to tell me why?
They are now stone walling me and have not said what happened. They are forcing me to turn it over to an Attorney, I have one in Iowa and he's locating one in Renton Washington..
641 919 8188 Wally
-
Wow. That's a scary thought. Glad it wasn't any worse. What wattage bulb were you using? Did the breaker for that circuit trip after it caught fire?
-
I was using a 60 watt bulb and CB did not trip, I only heard the fire when a ornamental crystal on a nylon fishing string melted(located over module) and dropped, I was just going to bed.
plus I had a small fire extinguisher on hand.
-
first off fires are my biggest worry, regarless it is scary, but not to sound like an ass, anything plunged in to a socket can cause a fire, not just x10 products, I seen a flash light recharger go up in flames causing half a house to go up with it. seen my own lamp spewing flames up the wall.
I would think its very rare that a x10 product would catch fire or be the cause of a fire, but Like you I sure would like to hear from others who may have had a similar problem!
I'm glad you and your house are ok...
-
I have seen early Smarthome ApplianceLinc V2 modules start smoking after trying to switch off the load that was inductive.
As an electronic technician I had to look before returning. Was a set of capacitors across the relay contacts that shorted from the inductive spikes. All the load tried to go through the small capacitors and smoked. Smarthome did a recall and the problems was fixed.
I have also seen CFLs when failing smoke and get charred. Though if really UL approved should have a fusing device in it.
I also wounder what failed in the TM751 as I believe the electronics has a small piece of thin fusible wire on one of the power inputs, though the heaver load wires are not fused.
-
Capt108
Yes, I would bet X10 is very interested in that.
What is so very unusual and hard to explain is: since you say the light was OFF, this fire isn't a factor of the relay not closing properly or being pitted and develop heat and sparking across the contacts long enough to ignite.
If the lamp was OFF it only leaves module component failure which caused excessive current and subsequent heat. That should not be possible since the electronics is fused in the module...and the fuse is a tiny, tiny, wire which should not be able to carry enough current to develop sufficient heat to go incendiary.
Neuron just fired: anyone know if TM751 has "Local Control"? Might be a failure at the relay output, which I believe bypasses the fuse(?). Brian H do you know?
I doubt X10 will let you know what happened, but I certainly am curious.
-
I'd submit a vote if the options made any sense..............................
-
Tested both an older TM751 and one of the newer ones with surface mounted IC and same receiver board as the CM15A.
Both did not respond to a local bulb being switched on and off in its output.
Both have the relay directly soldered to the line input pin and the line output of the receptacle. No fuse in the output.
Didn't see any fuse for the electronics, not even the hair sized wire some modules have in them. They may have a fuse resistor though. Not sure.
-
In the fall 2008 I had a TM751 wireless transceiver module catch fire and cause major damage,fortunately I heard the fire and put it out quickly. It was an incandescent bulb and was in the off position.
happen to anyone else, I sent the unit to X-10 and am still waiting for research to tell me why?
641 919 8188 Wally
I guess that is scary thing, is the circuit trip after it caught fire? if that so then that sounds fine to be...
-
Something went wrong here. My X-10's won't working. I replaced the cord they were on with a power strip to test.
Zappppp... smoke, sparks and burns on an appliance module I plugged in for a fish tank light.
www.butkus.org/x-10/index.htm
On later examination of the cord that wasn't working, it had an internal fuse. The X-10 started to fry internally and popped the fuse.
I came along and plugged it into a circuit protected power strip and zappp.
-
The big clue is the original power cords fuse and the power strips breaker blew.
I don't remember seeing anything in the module that could burn that badly. As it has a fuse for the electronics.
It does not fuse the heavy power through the relay. So it could carry some heavy current with a short. I did notice in one of mine. The soldering on the outlet connections of the PC Board where not the best. A poor joint could get hot under load but not act like a short.
I guess if the Neutral jumper wire or the Relay's fly wire to the outlet broke off and touched something it could overheat and burn.
It is possible the short was on the load side of the module and it overheated from the excessive current through it.
The burn marks on the power strip. Where you plugging the module into it when it sparked or was it already connected?
You may want to double check the light in question for a short to ground or for burn marks where a short blew off from the second jolt of current.
Do you know how much current the lights normally draw?
I am not saying the module could not have failed. As Murphy's Law keeps me on my toes.
-
X10 never told me why my X10 modual caught fire, after 18 months they did pay the 1,000 dollar repair bill...but never told me why it caught fire!!!
-
Thanks for the added information capt108.
Your overheating was a TM751.
Guess X10 will never give you the actual failure mode for it.
-
This sparked as soon as I plugged it in. The "light" was a 15W fish tank bulb. That still works. So it was an internal problem. The controller that was attached to the power strip when this happened is still working.
-
From the photograph it looks like there was something conductive across the plug prongs, either external or internal to the case. I have seen similar damage.
A couple of years ago a XTB was returned that supposedly "failed", but there are obvious melt marks across the top of the plug prongs. That case had a mounting flange for the center screw of a duplex receptacle. I'll bet the receptacle had a metal cover that slipped down across the prongs while it was being plugged in. Except for the scorch marks and damage to the prongs, the XTB was fine.
As a result, the XTB case no longer includes a mounting flange.
Jeff
-
My general rule is NEVER plug a module into a power strip. Power strips are used for multiple plug, so anything can be plugged to them. With the great number of noise producers around, plugging a module into one is asking for trouble.
Extension cords are OK, especially when the outlet for the module is far away from what it is controlling. Fairly short runs only.
-
I have made some sparks from time to time. rofl
That outlet look more like a short on the outside of the outlet. Maybe on or in the plug.
A short on the inside face of the outlet would have burned the plastic more from the inside.
-
The item (light) that was plugged into this flaming appliance unit is working fine. No damage.... hence the short was inside the unit.
The burn hole was made from inside the unit.
-
The item (light) that was plugged into this flaming appliance unit is working fine. No damage.... hence the short was inside the unit.
The burn hole was made from inside the unit.
There appeares to be more external damage to the module than can be supported by the burn hole. Are you sure something could not have fallen across the plug prongs? The internal fuse of the module would not support this kind of energy.
-
That must have been quite a fire?
I looked at 2 pin appliance module and where your burned hole is. There is a slot behind the hole; that isn't even inside the module.
Your burned hole is just through a piece of plastic case with no internal parts behind it.
-
The item (light) that was plugged into this flaming appliance unit is working fine. No damage.... hence the short was inside the unit.
The fact the light that was plugged into the appliance module still works doesn't mean there couldn't have been some conductive material across the plug prongs - perhaps just a strand of wire. I agree with the others that the damage appears to have been underneath the plug. A stray strand of wire could have caused that flare, and vaporized to leave no evidence behind.
Jeff
-
I took the appliance module off of one extension cord, then into a power strip... nothing was moved.
Defective X-10 plain and simple. Something inside the X-10 caused a short. NOTHING was crossed at the plug.
I'm not sure how old this module is...
If something was shorted across the plug.. the plug would have melted sections. That plug is not bad, considering the damage to the unit.