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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Rocket J Squirrel on July 06, 2009, 02:18:23 PM

Title: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on July 06, 2009, 02:18:23 PM
I'm still struggling to get timers to work in AHP 3.228. I've read the various threads on troubleshooting, but have not had success yet.

I have several of the Leviton soft-start wall dimmer switches which formerly did respond to AHP timers. At some fuzzy point in time, I noticed my lights weren't coming on at night. This seems to be because AHP is sending "Bright 100%" instead of "On". The macro preference on AHP called "Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'" doesn't seem to have any effect. I want to send a real "On" to these switches, but just can't get the timers to do it.

My timers work if I tell AHP the wall switches are fluorescent switches (i.e., no dim/bright). Am I reduced to this as a solution?
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on July 06, 2009, 03:40:47 PM
Never mind. I figured it out. The preference affects macros only, not timers. So the workaround is to put the ON command inside a macro and have the timer call the macro.

(What is it about posting a question which ensures you'll find the answer yourself minutes later?  ::))
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: dave w on July 06, 2009, 04:36:21 PM
(What is it about posting a question which ensures you'll find the answer yourself minutes later?  ::))

I'm quite familiar with this. It is a well known subset of Murphy's Law
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on August 28, 2009, 12:35:40 PM
the workaround is to put the ON command inside a macro and have the timer call the macro.
To reply to myself yet again :P, using a macro turns out to be a good thing anyway with the Levitons. I've found a good sequence is

On
Delay 1 sec
Bright 100%
Delay 1 sec
Dim 30%
(or whatever final level you like)
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Boiler on August 28, 2009, 03:33:45 PM
Hello Bob,

Your Leviton dimmers are similar to the new "soft start" X10 switches.  As you've noted, they will not activate in response to bright or dim commands.

Your work around will get the job done, but it's the hard way.  Try re-identifying the switches as two way lamp modules (LM14a).  This will utilize the extended code "direct dim" protocol.  You should not need a separate "on" command with this protocol.

Boiler
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on August 28, 2009, 03:55:11 PM
Hello Bob,

Your Leviton dimmers are similar to the new "soft start" X10 switches.  As you've noted, they will not activate in response to bright or dim commands.

Your work around will get the job done, but it's the hard way.  Try re-identifying the switches as two way lamp modules (LM14a).  This will utilize the extended code "direct dim" protocol.  You should not need a separate "on" command with this protocol.

Boiler
Hey Boiler.

I tried the LM14a trick first, after seeing it on this board. It doesn't work with my Levitons, which are 5-10 years old.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: evadorev on September 07, 2009, 08:15:03 PM
try to rename your wall switches wls 467, if your switches is 5-10 years old, they probably not respond to extended codes.

To make sure it transmits basic codes just check on the activity monitor F2

I`ve already have that kind of problem with Radio Shack Modules

hop it will help
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Dan Lawrence on September 07, 2009, 09:23:04 PM
One thing a lot of folks don't know is ALL  modules regardless of what name is on the case are all the same and made in the same factory.  I have modules that I've used since I began using X10 with the CP290 and DOS software.  They came from X10, Radio Shack, Magnavox (which have the code wheels inside a door!!) and even Sears.  Both lamp and appliance modules are seen by AHP as lamp and appliance modules.  They are respond to PLC codes the same way.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: JeffVolp on September 08, 2009, 12:15:42 AM
One thing a lot of folks don't know is ALL  modules regardless of what name is on the case are all the same and made in the same factory.

That is certainly true of most of the devices, but I'm not sure it applies to the higher end Leviton switches (the ones with true rocker action).

Those respond to Leviton extended codes.  That protocol goes back at least a decade because those higher end switches are included in the Leviton 1999 "Decora Home Controls" catalog.  The push-on / push-off switches which are X10 clones are in that catalog too.

I don't have AHP installed now, but I don't recall seeing selections for the higher-end Leviton switches.

Jeff
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Boiler on September 08, 2009, 06:40:13 AM
Hey Boiler.

I tried the LM14a trick first, after seeing it on this board. It doesn't work with my Levitons, which are 5-10 years old.

Hi Bob,

Sorry for the long delay in responding...

Curious that the LM14a interface doesn't work for you.  I've used it with both my HCM06 series (true rocker) and the older 6381 series switches.

Do you happen to have a repeater in your installation?  If so, it's possible that the repeater can't repeat the extended codes.  If your Leviton units are on the opposite phase from the CM15a, they might not be able to receive the transmission.

What model Leviton units are you using?

Boiler

Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on September 08, 2009, 11:09:52 AM
Curious that the LM14a interface doesn't work for you.  I've used it with both my HCM06 series (true rocker) and the older 6381 series switches.

Do you happen to have a repeater in your installation?  If so, it's possible that the repeater can't repeat the extended codes.  If your Leviton units are on the opposite phase from the CM15a, they might not be able to receive the transmission.

What model Leviton units are you using?
My Leviton switches are all true rockers. I believe the 10-year-old ones are the 6381 series, with the physical address wheels and red LEDs. I also have one of the newer models which replaced those, with a green LED and software address setting.

Yes, I have a SmartHome dryer-plug repeater. (A passive coupler didn't do the trick.) So you have probably nailed my issue. But I'm satisfied with having the timer call a macro. It's easy and it works.

Finally, my really old X10 brand cheapo wall switches are starting to die. They are responding to addresses other than their own and/or not responding to their own addresses. This annoys the hell out of the wife (and me). My problem is that the two worst offenders, following Murphy's law, are behind a monolithic piece of furniture which would have to be disassembled.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: dave w on September 08, 2009, 11:49:35 AM
[Finally, my really old X10 brand cheapo wall switches are starting to die. They are responding to addresses other than their own and/or not responding to their own addresses. This annoys the hell out of the wife (and me). My problem is that the two worst offenders, following Murphy's law, are behind a monolithic piece of furniture which would have to be disassembled.
FWIW It is too bad you can't easily get to the code wheels. My own experience with old X10 modules and switches changing code or mysteriously getting intermittent,  has led me to believe either gradual loss of spring tension on the wheel contacts or oxidation buildup on the switch contacts. "Spinning the wheels" usually produced a "life extension" for me.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: whsbuss on September 10, 2009, 05:45:25 PM
One thing a lot of folks don't know is ALL  modules regardless of what name is on the case are all the same and made in the same factory.  I have modules that I've used since I began using X10 with the CP290 and DOS software.  They came from X10, Radio Shack, Magnavox (which have the code wheels inside a door!!) and even Sears.  Both lamp and appliance modules are seen by AHP as lamp and appliance modules.  They are respond to PLC codes the same way.

So are you saying the wls467 and lm14 sold on the AHP site do not have soft start? I'm looking to replace 5 year old devices with soft start ones.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Brian H on September 10, 2009, 06:26:55 PM
First the LM14A is discontinued and if you do find any they are old stock and are two way.
The last one I bought was Date Code: 02L36 that is 2002 week 36 and they where from an X10 clearance sale.

All wall switches made in 2007 or later are soft start according to the X10 wiki.

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_Wall_Switches_and_Preset_Dim
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: whsbuss on September 10, 2009, 07:49:25 PM
First the LM14A is discontinued and if you do find any they are old stock and are two way.
The last one I bought was Date Code: 02L36 that is 2002 week 36 and they where from an X10 clearance sale.

All wall switches made in 2007 or later are soft start according to the X10 wiki.

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Newer_Wall_Switches_and_Preset_Dim

Okay. So on the AHP site the LM14a just comes up as the 456. So why do they have the PLM21 at $44 vs $12 for the LM456? More features?
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Brian H on September 11, 2009, 06:27:43 AM
No a LM14A was a two way Lamp Module not a wall switch. X10 says the new WS467 with Soft Start works better in AHP if it is called a LM14A. Even though an LM14A is a Lamp Module and not a wall switch.

The PLM21 was the X10Pro part number for the LM14A both had the same characteristics and both are listed as Discontinued.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Boiler on September 11, 2009, 07:41:17 AM
Yes, I have a SmartHome dryer-plug repeater. (A passive coupler didn't do the trick.) So you have probably nailed my issue. But I'm satisfied with having the timer call a macro. It's easy and it works.

Finally, my really old X10 brand cheapo wall switches are starting to die. They are responding to addresses other than their own and/or not responding to their own addresses. This annoys the hell out of the wife (and me). My problem is that the two worst offenders, following Murphy's law, are behind a monolithic piece of furniture which would have to be disassembled.

Hi Bob,

I think you found your culprit.  Smarthome uses an older form of the X10 standard that utilizes "Preset Dim" commands instead of the "Extended code - Direct Dim" of the current standard.  Non of the Smarthome products that I have experience with support Extended code communication.  I haven't tried their repeater, but if they're consistent...

Sorry to hear about your switch behind the furniture.  It appears that Murphy's law is evenly applied across the country.

If this switch is connected to the load, your options are few.  If it is part of a 3way circuit (non-load carrying), there could be some alternatives.

As a side note, the newer Leviton HCM06 series switches use "address capture" to store their X10 address settings in memory (no code wheels).  On the surface this sounds like an advantage, but I've had a number of units forget their programming after power outages.  You don't want to replace that switch with "new technology" only to find that you have the same problem every time a storm rolls through.

Boiler
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: whsbuss on September 11, 2009, 07:45:05 AM
No a LM14A was a two way Lamp Module not a wall switch. X10 says the new WS467 with Soft Start works better in AHP if it is called a LM14A. Even though an LM14A is a Lamp Module and not a wall switch.

The PLM21 was the X10Pro part number for the LM14A both had the same characteristics and both are listed as Discontinued.

Thanks Brian. I need some new wall switches soon and a lamp module.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: dave w on September 11, 2009, 11:47:15 AM

Okay. So on the AHP site the LM14a just comes up as the 456. So why do they have the PLM21 at $44 vs $12 for the LM456? More features?

The PLM21 WAS the X10 Pro line (http://www.x10pro.com/) equvalent of the old 2-Way LM14A. I don't think it is available anymore either.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Mellowmark on September 13, 2009, 08:52:11 AM
 :)+   I seen that you have a timer to call a macro.  can you  show how that is done.  also I would like to know where i can get this coupler reapeater that repeats the extended codes  I need one and whould like the most expandable device for future expansion of my sys..    any help is  greats much thanks  the mellowman.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Boiler on September 13, 2009, 09:57:11 AM
:)+   I seen that you have a timer to call a macro.  can you  show how that is done.  also I would like to know where i can get this coupler reapeater that repeats the extended codes  I need one and whould like the most expandable device for future expansion of my sys..    any help is  greats much thanks  the mellowman.

Hi Mellowmark,

If you look at one of your macro Icons you'll see a small symbol that looks like a globe (earth).  I believe it's in the lower right.  Right-click on the symbol and you'll be able to assign a timer.

There are a few repeaters that can handle the extended code protocol.  The Leviton HCA02 repeater is one of them - but I can't recommend them due to possible "firestorm" problems with the CM15a.

I believe Jeff Volp's XTB-IIR now handles extended codes.  Base on the performance I've observed with his XTBR (plug in repeater), I would highly recommend either.

Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: JeffVolp on September 13, 2009, 10:38:38 AM
The XTB-IIR always handled extended codes in either the direct X10 boost or TW523 emulation modes.  There is an issue repeating extended codes because they deviate from the normal X10 format.  The CM15A and some other controllers send extended codes as a "doublet" like standard X10 commands.  It is possible to repeat that extended code format, and that capability was added in the past year.  It will not repeat the single extended codes produced by the Ocelot and some Leviton wall controllers due to the likelyhood of collisions.

The XTBR plug-in repeater isn't in production yet, but I hope to have it available in November.

Jeff
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Knightrider on September 13, 2009, 10:42:50 AM

If you look at one of your macro Icons you'll see a small symbol that looks like a globe (earth).  I believe it's in the lower right.  Right-click on the symbol and you'll be able to assign a timer.



Just to clarify what my esteemed colleague from Indiana said,

You want the small symbol that looks like a clock to assign a timer.  Try left clicking on it.  The globe is for remote operations.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Mellowmark on September 13, 2009, 12:10:52 PM
Wow you guys are right there.   #:)    Not shur if i want to go for the whole xtb-iir, what about this xpcr from home automation?  What is the diff and do I really need extended code or does it have it also.  I would like a UL approved device.  I want somthing I can get familiar with as it may be something for me to resell and install for others.  Cost is an issue here MICHIGAN NOT DOING GOOD.  Otherwise  I just want my new stuff to work on its own  newbie and all.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Boiler on September 13, 2009, 12:40:31 PM
Just to clarify what my esteemed colleague from Indiana said,

You want the small symbol that looks like a clock to assign a timer.  Try left clicking on it.  The globe is for remote operations.

Thank you for the clarification Sir.  That memory thing biting me in a rearward area again!
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: Rocket J Squirrel on September 13, 2009, 02:06:25 PM
The XTBR plug-in repeater isn't in production yet, but I hope to have it available in November.
If this will plug into my 3-prong 240v dryer outlet, replacing the SmartHome unit, sign me up! It doesn't even have to have a pass-through socket, because I have a gas dryer.
Title: Re: Issue 'On' in place of 'Bright 100%'... doesn't
Post by: JeffVolp on September 13, 2009, 05:23:19 PM
The XTBR plug-in repeater isn't in production yet, but I hope to have it available in November.
If this will plug into my 3-prong 240v dryer outlet, replacing the SmartHome unit, sign me up! It doesn't even have to have a pass-through socket, because I have a gas dryer.

No, the XTBR is an enhanced version of the plug-in XTB that includes a repeater capability.  It is intended for those people who already have a good passive coupler installed at the distribution panel.

The XTB-IIR is still the choice for those who don't already have a passive coupler, and need to drive both phases.  Several people have wired that unit to a dryer plug.

Jeff