X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jadams77 on September 26, 2009, 10:59:46 AM
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I have been using a X10 Homebase for the past 15 years. I'm sure it's an 80's vintage. I run it on an old DOS computer and has been rock solid until now. All of a sudden I started getting the following message: Communication Errors, check connections and/or serial port setup. I have checked everything that I know of.
The com 1 port is working - verified with another piece of hardware.
The cables have all been tested for continuity.
The battery in the homebase is ok.
I have moved to another computer with the same results.
If anyone is familiar with Homebase and can give me some suggestions, I'd really appreciate it. I probably should update, but my program would take hours to rewrite.
Thanks,
JAdams
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X10 Homebase? A Google Search reveals nothing. What's that? I started with X10 in the middle 80's with a CP290 and DOS software.
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I believe it's the predessor to the JDS Stargate. Is it possible to attach a picture to this post? I can send a photo. It uses basic like Event Manager if-then-else logic. Looking at the owners manual it is from Home Control Concepts. The manual was printed in 1992.
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What kind of modules does it control? X10, or something else? If not X10 technology, you are stuck. It's like suddenly jumping 20 years.
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Homebase only controls X10 modules. I'm convinced the problem is in the circuit board. Unless I can find some technician type that is familiar with it, I'll have to upgrade.
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I suspect upgrading to Active Home Professional (AHP) is your only choice. One important thing: When you receive it, it will come with version 3.236, which is a buggy release. To same you a bad impression. before you install it, go to http://software.x10.com/pub/applications/activehome/ and get ahp_updt_204.exe. Install that. Once 3.204 is installed, use the update link in AHP to upgrade to 3.228. Once that is installed you can get your modules set up and apply any timers and macros you need.
Good luck!!!
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Thanks for the insight Dan, if I don't get any other suggestions on how to repair my unit, I'll upgrade to AHP and ahhh.............downgrade the software. I bought some security camera stuff from x10 in the past and found that software to be junk.
Thanks
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Thanks for the insight Dan, if I don't get any other suggestions on how to repair my unit, I'll upgrade to AHP and ahhh.............downgrade the software. I bought some security camera stuff from x10 in the past and found that software to be junk.
Thanks
Actually Dan has good advice about upgrading to AHP. However your problem with HomeBase may be simple.
JDS HomeBase and Circuit Research "Enerlogic 1400" were similar products (I think. Although I may be confusing the HomeBase with the JDS Time Commander). I had the Enerlogic so offer these guesses based on my Enerlogic and assuming the HomeBase is similar.
A local TV shop may be able to help you.
Does the HomeBase still run its program?
If so, check the serial connector and the interface chip. I think the Enerlogic used a 16550 UART.
If Homebase does not run your "schedule", do the LED's on front panel light?
If not, check output from the wall wart and check power supply components on the PC board. I remember the Enerlogic as having a solder in fuse on the board you might have a simple blown fuse. If fuse is OK , the Enerlogic had a standard 7805 voltage regulator. Look for one on the HomeBase near the power input jack a see if it has 5V dc out the center pin. Those are the simple checks and least costly if failed.
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I ordered AHP today but would still like to find out the problem with HomeBase. The program still runs, LED's on the front panel respond to x10 signals so the TW523 and it's connection to HomeBase seems to work fine. I have checked the serial connector for continuity all the way to the inside of the box. How can I check the interface chip? There are 2 chips mounted in sockets. One is marked with a paper tag that says 'IHS HB Firmware Ver 2.13', the other is a TC55257APL-10.
I may look into the TV repair idea.
Thanks for your input.
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The TC552757 is a static ram memory IC.
From the tag information. The other one looks like the firmware eprom.
On a device of that age. I would expect it to have an RS232 Receiver IC and a RS232 Transmitter IC.
Did you see any soldered in chips with a 1488 and 1489 base part number?
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I have checked the serial connector for continuity all the way to the inside of the box. How can I check the interface chip? I may look into the TV repair idea.
Thanks for your input.
It's pretty unusual to blow a serial interface.
Are you sure the comm port did not get reconfigured by accident? (COMM 1, 2, 3, 4 etc) Comm port configuration on HomeBase must match Comm port configureation in the software on on the computer. My Enerlogic defaulted to Comm 2 but could be forced to 1, 3, or 4.
If that is correct, I would simply look for the easy. Since the RS232 connector (serial connector) is subject to mechanical stress I would inspect the solder joints. Then, look for chips with the numbers Brian and I gave. This is where you will probably need the TV repair shop because you need an oscilloscope, or logic analyzer to look for activity on the pins. You also need to have the serial link active, trying to communicate with a PC. But again, it is pretty hard to blow these out. Maybe static if you live in dry climate and touched the pins in the connector.
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Attached is a photo of the board with the IC's identified as best I could. I have tried to change the com ports from the software and none work. As I said, I have verified the com port is working with other hardware and have tried another computer. I really appreciate all the ideas you guys have suggested. I'll try anything you think is worthwhile.
Thanks
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That's very interesting. The CP290 was a simple plug-in unit that hooked to a Com Port and had no exposed circuity, just a cable that had a port that plugged into the 290 and a Com Port on the other end. No fuss, no muss. It was mid-1980's as well.
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Attached is a photo of the board with the IC's identified as best I could. I have tried to change the com ports from the software and none work. As I said, I have verified the com port is working with other hardware and have tried another computer. I really appreciate all the ideas you guys have suggested. I'll try anything you think is worthwhile.
Thanks
The chip labelled "9226B is probably the serial line interface. I believe 9226 is a date code, not the chip number. However it is in line with the RJ11 connector labeled "RS232" flip the board and follow the traces from the RJ11 connector, do they go to the "9226"? There should be other numbers on the 9226B chip, 9226 isn't a common IC number (?).
I checked the other P/N. The 80C31 is the micro, 5525 is memory, 74 573 is octal latch (flip flop), 74240 is a buffer/driver, 17705 is a modem (what is that "Port 1" connection? The 7805 is voltage regulator. Any of those chips failing would do more that just stop your serial connection, so my "WAG" is that 9226.
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The chip I labled 9226B does have another number. MAX232 CPE and you are correct, the traces go to the RJ11 (RS232). The RJ11 labled 'Port1' is labled AUX on the outside of the case. The manual does not give any details as to what that is used for. Following those traces, they go to the 74240.
Is the 232 chip available if I decide to replace it?
Thanks
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I'm not sure if this means anything since the 232 chip is soldered in place but I plugged my test cable into the rj11 (rs232) to check for continuity through the traces. Each of the 4 leds, red, green, black, and yellow, show continuity on each of the others. I hope this makes sense.
I'm lite on electronics, but the chip being in place probably has something to do with this, right?
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The chip I labled 9226B does have another number. MAX232 CPE and you are correct, the traces go to the RJ11 (RS232). The RJ11 labled 'Port1' is labled AUX on the outside of the case. The manual does not give any details as to what that is used for. Following those traces, they go to the 74240.
Is the 232 chip available if I decide to replace it?
Thanks
Much better! "MAX232A - 5V-Powered, Multichannel RS-232 Drivers/Receivers - Maxim Integrated Products"
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=MAX232ACPE%2B-ND
Yes Digikey has 1500 ready to ship. A whole $5.51 each.
I don't know if the resistance between the wires is normal or not. They should NOT be a direct short.
Pins 8 and 13 are the RS232 inputs One pin of your connector will couple to either pin 8 or 13. Both have internal 5K ohm to ground. Pins 7 and 14 are RS232 outputs, so again 7 or 14 will go to your connector. They have internal pull up resistors. One of your connector leads will go to the ground trace of the Homebase board. Pin 15 of the chip is ground and 16 is 5V power. You might ohm the three capacitors next to the RJ11 connector. They should not be shorted. If they are OK, I would "WAG" the MAX 232 is bad.
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The three capacitors next to the RJ11 connector appear to be ok.
I've have never removed and replaced an IC before that was soldered to the board. Any special tricks to this? What can go wrong? I should probably order 2 chips, I usually have to do things twice. Measure twice and cut once never seemed to sink in with me. I cut it twice and it's still too short!!
Thanks to everyone for your help with this problem, I'll let you know how it comes out.
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The MAX232 uses four capacitors to generate the +12 and -12 volts for the RS232 signals. If the replacement IC still doesn't work. One of the caps may have failed. I believe the standard was 10 uf caps. There is a newer IC that gets away with 1 uf caps.
It is a common IC and I have a few in my stash for projects. ;D
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All 4 caps are 4.7uf 25v. C3, between pins 1 and 3 shows open. C4 between 4 and 5 shows 2K ohms, C5 beween 1 and +Vcc shows 220 ohms, and C6 beween pin 6 and (I think) ground shows 32 ohms.
Is this of any help?
Thanks
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All 4 caps are 4.7uf 25v. C3, between pins 1 and 3 shows open. C4 between 4 and 5 shows 2K ohms, C5 beween 1 and +Vcc shows 220 ohms, and C6 beween pin 6 and (I think) ground shows 32 ohms.
Is this of any help?
Thanks
I don't know if those resistance readings are norm or not. Some seem really low. Try reversing your ohm meter leads after getting first reading. If reading goes up, you are measuring through a forward biased junction in the chip. Reverse the leads to reverse bias the junction and see if reading jumps up.
Brian makes excellent point about the electrolytic caps. They could be your problem also.
As far as changing the chip, I am opening myself to flaming critique, but here goes it; you need a good solder sucker or "solder wick" to remove the solder from the IC holes. A small tip iron, if not temperature controlled, then 40-60 Watts is plenty. 60/40 or 63/37 flux based solder for the new chip. Hemostats or needle nose pliers to remove the old chips legs. Narrow bladed wire cutters to cut the leads.
Note the orientation of the chip and where the pin 1 notch is. Use your cutters to cut the leads of the old IC as close to the body as you can get. From component side of board, grip each cut leg with hemostats or needle nose pliers and flip board over and unsolder that lead while gently pulling on the ‘stats or needle nose. Once you have unsoldered and removed each of the old leads, clear solder from the holes using the solder sucker or the solder wick. If the new IC came in a black bag, or black foam, assuming you do not have an anti static wrist strap, touch the 7805 regulator by the metal tab as you remove the new chip from the foam and insert the new IC in the board. Solder each lead and cut excess lead length.
It isn’t difficult. Just avoid applying too much heat to the solder pads (i.e. no more than a few seconds) as you are unsoldering the old leads or soldering in the new. If you see the board starting to discolor, move on to next pad and come back after the board as cooled a little.
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dave w; No flame here. Sounds like the way I would do it. Unless I was lucky enough to have a Pace Desoldering Station. rofl
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I re-tested all 4 caps, reversed the leads and checked again. All have the same reading either way. I tried a different meter and have the same readings. Do you think I should try replacing the caps first, one at a time.
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Sounds like the way I would do it. Unless I was lucky enough to have a Pace Desoldering Station. rofl
O-o-h that brings back memories. Loved the sound of that pump when you hit the pedal. Yeah, I'd like a Pace Station also.
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I re-tested all 4 caps, reversed the leads and checked again. All have the same reading either way. I tried a different meter and have the same readings. Do you think I should try replacing the caps first, one at a time.
Good question, but hard to answer without being there. How bad do you want to save this Homebase?
Even if you buy two ICs and six caps anticipating gross error you are less that $10 in parts from Digikey or Mouser (unless they have minimum orders). And based on your information, my money is on bad IC or bad caps.
Shotgun the whole mess, you surely will hit the problem.
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Texas-Instruments/MAX232ECN/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMutXGli8Ay4kBL%2ffHJqIqAyIowkjAql2tA%3d
http://www.mouser.com/Passive-Components/Capacitors/Aluminum-Electrolytic-Capacitors-Leaded/_/N-1b8ie?Keyword=4.7+uf&FS=True
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?lang=en&site=US&WT.z_homepage_link=hp_go_button&KeyWords=MAX232CPE&x=15&y=17
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll
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DigiKey use to have a minimum order value or they added a handling fee. Not sure if it was dropped now.
I use Mouser and they have no minimum. I used them when I messed up my XTBII-R. Yes checked five times and still got the 15 and 35 volt caps in opposite positions B:(. Jeff's good quality PC runs made safe removal with out cutting them out impossible. A small Mouser order and all was fine again.
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I noticed Mouser was considerably less costly compared to Digikey also.
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Thanks guys, I'll be ordering parts.