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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: snydley100 on March 19, 2010, 11:39:43 PM

Title: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: snydley100 on March 19, 2010, 11:39:43 PM
I have 3 X10 units,(2 switches and 1 remote light bulb socket). I want to add another light bulb socket but the outlet that will be powering the lamp is on the other phase than my TM751 transceiver is plugged into. Instead of going though the expense of getting a phase coupler can I get another TM751 and plug that into the other phase and control the light that way? My 1st 751 is set to code "A". Can I also set this 2nd TM751 to code "A" or does it have to be "B" or higher? Can I "get around" having to get a phase coupler this way?
Thanks
Snyde
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Brian H on March 20, 2010, 06:10:49 AM
TM751s are not polite and will step on each other.

Will one on each phase work. Maybe but could be a problem. Depends on if any of the modules are in a location where both TM751 signals where present.
Each on a different House Code would help stop interference between them but make remotes harder to use.

Also only RF commands are processed by a TM751 so any table top or AC type controller would not reach all the modules.

So using two TM751s may work for you or may not. Guess you could try it and see what happens.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: STI2NR on April 04, 2010, 01:10:04 AM
Expense of a phase coupler??  That's pure nonsense! See here http://cgi.ebay.com/X-10-PHASE-COUPLER-STOP-INTERMITTENT-X10-PROBLEMS_W0QQitemZ160119208413QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item2547d939dd

The beauty of this is that it works!! 

;-)
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Bill59 on April 04, 2010, 09:24:44 AM
I had one of those blow up on me.  I found a more robust one that has a higher voltage rating. It is made for rf power supplies you can find them on the internet.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: JeffVolp on April 04, 2010, 09:50:52 AM

A .1uF capacitor has a capacitive reactance of 13 ohms at 120KHz.  While certainly better than nothing, it does not provide "optimum" coupling.  The downside with a simple capacitor is that the coupling actually gets better as the frequency increases.  So higher frequency noise is actually coupled better than the X10 signal itself.

If you are going to go through the trouble of adding a coupler, the XPCP is available inexpensively on eBay.  That unit is a very good coupler with twin tuned-circuit networks.  The SignaLinc 4816H adds a 18uH inductor in series with the .1uF capacitor to cancel out the inductive reactance, and it also works well.  More information on couplers is available here:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_couplers.htm

Jeff
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Brian H on April 04, 2010, 09:52:40 AM
That capacitor does not look like it was made for Across AC Power Line use.

I used one that was made for across power line use and was UL; CSA and a few other agencies approved for that use. I believe the X2 rating was what it was marked with. Most electronic distributors like Mouser and DigiKey carry X2 across the power line rated capacitors. I got mine from Mouser.

As Bill59 found out. A 630 volt DC rating does not indicate it can be safely used across an AC power line.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Charles Sullivan on April 04, 2010, 02:50:07 PM
That capacitor does not look like it was made for Across AC Power Line use.

I used one that was made for across power line use and was UL; CSA and a few other agencies approved for that use. I believe the X2 rating was what it was marked with. Most electronic distributors like Mouser and DigiKey carry X2 across the power line rated capacitors. I got mine from Mouser.

As Bill59 found out. A 630 volt DC rating does not indicate it can be safely used across an AC power line.


The Class X2 rating indicates that if it fails, it's supposed to fail as an open circuit.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Brian H on April 04, 2010, 07:09:59 PM
Thanks for the confirmation on X2 failure mode Charles.
I thought I had seen that somewhere.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Bill59 on April 05, 2010, 06:12:42 AM
It did!
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: dave w on April 05, 2010, 11:51:19 AM
It did!
It did what? Blow-up?
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Brian H on April 05, 2010, 12:36:59 PM
An X2 capacitor is made to SAFELY fail open.
My guess your shorted from the constant AC current through it and blew apart.
Title: Re: Instead of phase coupling
Post by: Bill59 on April 05, 2010, 12:37:34 PM
blowed up real good!