X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: kk on March 28, 2010, 02:23:01 PM
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Oh, I was just tickled to death with using a socket rocket with a motion sensor on my overhead kitchen fixture, but after about a couple of months the socket rocket seems to have melted and the bulb burned out. Of course, I don't know the time line of that (simultaneous/related/etc.). I only discovered this because the bulb burned out. I was using a 100 W bulb and the SR is fairly old. Should I just give up on this, especially for safety reasons, or do you think maybe this was just a fluke or related to the age of the SR? A 60 W bulb really isn't bright enough in there. TIA
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People have posted that when a bulb burns out it can fry the socket rocket. http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=18827.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=18827.0) (one example)
Sorry, no first-hand experience here. :-\
Personally, I would use either an X10 switch, or an XPFM inline module http://cgi.ebay.com/X10-PRO-Home-Automation-Inline-Appliance-Module-XPFM_W0QQitemZ380211642697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886614149 (http://cgi.ebay.com/X10-PRO-Home-Automation-Inline-Appliance-Module-XPFM_W0QQitemZ380211642697QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5886614149)
Good luck!
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........ after about a couple of months the socket rocket seems to have melted and the bulb burned out. ........ I was using a 100 W bulb and the SR is fairly old. Should I just give up on this, especially for safety reasons,
According to the SocketRocket PDF (http://software.x10.com/pub/manuals/lm15a-is.pdf) 100 watts is well within the 150 watt limit. But it seems to me I have read of melting/heat damage when bulbs are below the SocketRocket or they are concealed in a fixture..
I use SocketRockets myself... but if it doesn't feel safe... don't do it.
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Most time when the Socket Rocket is damaged. It is the surge from a bulb burning out and it will not turn off most times.
As mentioned was the bulb and Socket Rocket in an enclosed fixture or the bulb below the Socket Rocket? A100 watt bulb can generate a fair amount of heat?
Age thing here. :' Anyone remember the Easy Bake Oven? Used a light bulb to generate enough heat to bake a small cake. I believe it was recalled for burning children or discontinued by advice of a Lawyer.
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Of course I remember the Easy Bake Oven. You could even make bubble gum in that thing. ;D
Yes, my bulb is directly underneath the SR and enclosed in a globe. I'd imagine it does get pretty toasty in there. That kitchen light has always blown fairly often, probably because of the constant on-off, on-off use. I used to have an X10 wall switch in there. I know they're cheaply made, but when the switches blow, it always worries me because this is an old house with old wiring in the kitchen. I'm just paranoid about it, but maybe I should just go back to the wall switch, even though your answers have made me feel better about the SR and that it's probably the heat and that it would probably happen with many setups and not just old wiring. I need to order a new WS for the porch light, so I'll probably just order one for the kitchen also. Thanks a bunch.
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just wanted to say that i think any light that is inverted causes problems because they are not designed for the that purpose. I see many lights mounted upside down and i think they burnout faster, also have noticed many of the new CFL's in peoples porch lights that the base of the bulb is really getting quite yelow or even black on some that i have seen. I think everyone that reads this should check their bulbs that are inverted, just for safety.
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just wanted to say that i think any light that is inverted causes problems because they are not designed for the that purpose. I see many lights mounted upside down and i think they burnout faster, also have noticed many of the new CFL's in peoples porch lights that the base of the bulb is really getting quite yelow or even black on some that i have seen. I think everyone that reads this should check their bulbs that are inverted, just for safety.
What about an inverted light bulb that has been illuminated for 109 years? ;D
http://www.centennialbulb.org/photos.htm (http://www.centennialbulb.org/photos.htm) rofl
No, Seriously - I agree, although the design of the fixture is often out of our control.
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as for that bulb, that was made during a time span when people actually cared about what they built and wanted it to last. Nowadays people dont care, or i should say those that build it dont care. The faster they die the faster they make money.
I do agree that we are limited by the way the fixture is built, I just dont think they took into concern about cfl's when they designed them. And before long that is all we will probably have.
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I have several Socket Rockets in inverted lamp sockets in my basement, all with CFLs installed for several years. One is in my Laundry Room, the Socket Rocket has had a CFL in it for three years. Two Socket Rockets with CFLs in them are in My Upstairs "Christmas Closet, both inverted.
No problems with any one.
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I now have (6) CFL's that are in bulb down orientation, and all are controlled by Socket Rockets. I forget the wattage but they are all the equivalent of 100 watt incandescent bulbs. Previously, I had three of the current six fixtures with 100 watt incandescent bulbs in them, and the socket rockets got too hot to turn off reliably with the socket rockets. I added a fourth incandescent bulb in a completely open fixture in the basement -- bulb down -- with the same issue (i.e., too hot to turn off reliably) The CFLs run much cooler and I now have no heat issues with any of them.
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This all makes my brain hurt! I was under the impression that inverted CFL's are a fire hazard..... due to the same heat problem INSIDE THE BULB.... nothing to due with Home Automation. Plus I also was under the impression that SocketRockets aren't recommended for CFL's.
I don't understand the use of 100 watt incandescent bulbs ether. With incandescent light bulbs... the light level doesn't increase in proportion with wattage.. if I remember correctly. So two 40 watt bulbs would provide as much light (or more) as than one 100 watt bulb. Besides.. I've never seen a standard ceiling fixture that allowed for exceeding 60 watt light bulbs.
One of the really great things about Home Automation... is we can safely, easily, and adequately light any room.. at the touch of a button. I try to avoid any fast and easy fix... that might also cause my home to burn down.
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This all makes my brain hurt! I was under the impression that inverted CFL's are a fire hazard..... due to the same heat problem INSIDE THE BULB.... nothing to due with Home Automation. Plus I also was under the impression that SocketRockets aren't recommended for CFL's.
I had not heard anything about inverted CFLS creating a fire hazard but you may certainly be correct. I did read that enclosing them might be an issue -- just nothing about inverting them. I just know that the equivalent CFL's produce WAY less heat than the 100 watt bulbs I replaced. You may remember that my outside socket rocket controlled lights were unable to reliably turn off due to the heat of the 100 watt bulbs until I put the CFLs in. The rest of my socket rockets are in porcelain fixtures in the basement. As for Socket Rockets not being recommended for CFL's, you are correct (as far as I know). However, I know that many people use them without issue and in my case, they solved some incandescent heat issues.
I don't understand the use of 100 watt incandescent bulbs ether. With incandescent light bulbs... the light level doesn't increase in proportion with wattage.. if I remember correctly. So two 40 watt bulbs would provide as much light (or more) as than one 100 watt bulb. Besides.. I've never seen a standard ceiling fixture that allowed for exceeding 60 watt light bulbs.
Except for the porcelain fixtures in the basement (which had 100 watt bulbs in them when I bought the house new), the remaining (5) lights in question are outside and those are also bulb-down fixtures that I bought/installed and I know are rated at 100 watts. Also, putting two 40 watt bulbs where each of the outside one-bulb fixtures exists today is not possible.
One of the really great things about Home Automation... is we can safely, easily, and adequately light any room.. at the touch of a button. I try to avoid any fast and easy fix... that might also cause my home to burn down.
Excellent advise. Again, in my case, the CFLs run MUCH cooler than the bulbs they replaced.
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I've got CFL's installed in ceiling fixtures and lamps inverted, sideways and straight up and I've never before heard any cautions for their use. So, I looked on both the bulbs and the box they came in. The only caution regarding inverted, although somewhat indirect, is "not for use in ... or totally enclosed recessed fixture." That note implies to me that inverted is ok for some applications.
I also have, for the past 13 years an older style fluorescent bulb, a T18w, inverted in my garage. With no problems, of course. It's the type that has a solid glass cover with what appears to be two U-shaped units inside the glass. The only cautions on it are avoid enclosed fixtures, dimming circuts and small freestanding lamps (due to its weight).
I also have one ceiling fixture, inverted, that has a max of 75 watts for each of its three sockets. It's not total enclosed, though.
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I don't understand the use of 100 watt incandescent bulbs ether. With incandescent light bulbs... the light level doesn't increase in proportion with wattage.. if I remember correctly. So two 40 watt bulbs would provide as much light (or more) as than one 100 watt bulb.
I believe a higher wattage incandescent bulb always produces more light per watt as long as it is the same type of bulb. Obviously, a long-life bulb, or one rated for 130V, will produce fewer lumens compared with a similar wattage bulb rated for 120V operation. Here is a comparison chart for typical incandescent bulbs:
25W 220 lumens
40W 495 lumens
60W 855 lumens
75W 1170 lumens
100W 1680 lumens
Jeff
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...With incandescent light bulbs... the light level doesn't increase in proportion with wattage.. if I remember correctly. So two 40 watt bulbs would provide as much light (or more) as than one 100 watt bulb.
I believe a higher wattage incandescent bulb always produces more light per watt as long as it is the same type of bulb.
Jeff
Your right... I had searched for a chart to link to and didn't find one... I should have searched longer and NOT depended on my MIS-memory. Thanks for correcting me Jeff.
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I've got CFL's installed in ceiling fixtures and lamps inverted, sideways and straight up and I've never before heard any cautions for their use.
Yeah I know... I use the CFL's myself! I read about the hazard here: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=13559.msg75435#msg75435 It links to this story (http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/life/money/article/14680--new-concerns-raised-over-cfl-bulbs) as well.
I am a BIG fan of conserving electric... for the purpose of reducing my cost. I use a mixture of incandescent, CFL, fluorescence, and LED. When at one point I received some minor grief about my automation (and a HA PC running 24/7). I was quick to point out that our electric usage should be compared to our friends and neighbors. WAF went way up after finding out that automation and conservation go hand-in-hand.
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Yeah I know... I use the CFL's myself! I read about the hazard here: http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=13559.msg75435#msg75435 It links to this story (http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/life/money/article/14680--new-concerns-raised-over-cfl-bulbs) as well.
Thanks for the links.
I found the following somewhere on Wikipedia some time ago -
Incandescent lights produce about 12 lumens of light per watt with much of the power producing heat. LED and halogen lights produce about 40 lumens per watt. Some fluorescent lights produce up to 60 lumens per watt.
When I take a rough average of Jeff's incandescent watt/lumen numbers, I get about 13.6w/lumen. That's not far off of the above numbers.
Mel
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I found the following somewhere on Wikipedia some time ago - Incandescent lights produce about 12 lumens of light per watt with much of the power producing heat. ............ When I take a rough average of Jeff's incandescent watt/lumen numbers, I get about 13.6w/lumen. That's not far off of the above numbers.
I even remember where and when I heard/learned (?) what I thought I knew. I am sure I must have misunderstood... but I still trust the source. I have always followed that/those lighting guides... and hence I have used multiple lower wattage lamps.
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Well, as much as I wish the 60W-equivalent CFLs put out as much light as a 60W incandescent, they don't, but the energy savings factor is more important for me. I've tried using CFLs in the kitchen, though, and they just don't put out enough light (with the globe on). I could probably try to find a clear globe. I've never heard of an overhead fixture not allowing over 60W bulbs. Maybe I need to check into that.
Also, I thought the socket rockets weren't supposed to work with the CFLs, but I used one for several years and it was fine. The problem I've had was trying to use a CFL in the porch light with the X10 wall switch. That won't work for me, or at least the ones I tried wanted to blink.
I can also agree that the CFLs aren't nearly as hot as incandescents for me. I really don't think you could bake in the Easy Bake Oven with a CFL. :)
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The problem I've had was trying to use a CFL in the porch light with the X10 wall switch. That won't work for me, or at least the ones I tried wanted to blink.
I've used CFL's as porch, front and back, lights with XPS3 switches for a few years with no blinking problems that I've seen. The only problem I've had with CFL's and a XPS3 switch are the outside garage door lights. But they are 65-70' from the breaker panel and my CM15A is 35-40' from the panel. They will turn on/off for weeks then miss a cycle and then they're ok for a few more weeks.
Mel
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.... Also, I thought the socket rockets weren't supposed to work with the CFLs, but I used one for several years and it was fine.
Right. The SocketRocket aren't recommended for CFL's.... and many of us use them with CFL's.
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It is a CYA from X10.
Probably most CFLs are fine in a Socket Rocket, but if one model gets cranky or destructive. X10s Lawyers can say "We told you Incadescent Loads only".