X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: peb121 on August 23, 2010, 12:15:52 PM
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I am stumped.
I have had an x10 system installed for many years with no problems.
Here is my setup:
1 TM751 Transceiver Module
3 MS14A Motion Sensors
4 WS467 Wall Switch Module
The idea is to turn on outside lights when motion is detected. Again, this has been working fine for years. However, ever since I went to change the batteries in the MS14As things have been screwy. Now, only one of the WS467 modules turns on/off. The other 3 WS467s do not respond. The WS467s respond to the manual on/off on the switch, just not to the signal from the TM751.
What troubleshooting should I do?
How do I test if the WS467 module is working?
I find it hard to believe that 3 of the 4 WS467 modules failed at the same time. I don't recall a lightning strike recently, but it is summer and we do have a bit of lightning this time of year.
I have been working on this for a bit, but I can't seem to get it worked out.
Thanks for your help.
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When you changed the batteries.
Did you reprogram the house and unit codes in them?
Most times they revert to A1 the default address.
Is there anything new in the home as many times a new device or moved device can cause power line signal problems.
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When you changed the batteries did you reprogram the house and unit codes in them?
Yes, that is what is strange. One of the Wall Switch modules works, the other 3 do not. So I assume I have the motion sensors programmed properly because I did not change any settings in the Wall Switch modules.
Is there anything new in the home as many times a new device or moved device can cause power line signal problems.
There is nothing new in the house that I am aware of.
This was all working fine until the batteries went dead.
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Assuming none of your WS467s are set as Unit 1, make the TM751 Unit 1 and force each of the motion sensors ON with the button under battery cover, does the TM751 click? If so you probably need to reprogram the motion sensors again. They can be tricky to program.
If the WS467s are operating properly with the local switch, then they are "probably" good. No guarantee, but for the local switch to work means about 70% of the internal circuitry is working.
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Oh I forgot to mention the settings:
House: A
Unit: 2
What has me stumped is that 1 of the WS units is responding and working properly. The other 3 WS units are not responding to the TM, but do work locally. All 4 units were working fine until I changed the batteries on the motion sensors. No changes were made to the WS modules.
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We where asking if anything in the home was new or changed. Cell phone charger or anything. Even some of the new electronically controlled washing machines have been known to make problems.
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Would new electronics cause 3 out of the 4 to not work, but 1 WS to work as before?
I could check my panel to see if I can determine if the 3 non-working WS units are one on leg and the working WS is on the other leg.
I did get a new Bosch washing machine a few months back. I am trying to remeber if it coninsided with the X10 problem.
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Another regular , Brandt, recently mentioned he has noise problems with a new washer.
Are the WS and MS all on same HCUC? or Are you sure the MS all reprogrammed correctally.?
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If the problem is noise, what is the solution?
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Easy. Noise Filters, both plug-in and wire in.
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If the problem is noise, what is the solution?
Filters or a "blowtorch" repeater.
You might try unpluggin the washer and/or flipping OFF breakers one at a time to see if the wall switch modules start working.
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That is what I was thinking of trying
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I unplugged the new washing machine, but no difference.
I plugged in an appliance module and connected an incandescent lamp. I set the module for A2, which is what all the WS modules are set to and the MS turns it on and off consistently.
Does this mean anything. Would an AM work differently than a WS module?
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I unplugged the new washing machine, but no difference.
I plugged in an appliance module and connected an incandescent lamp. I set the module for A2, which is what all the WS modules are set to and the MS turns it on and off consistently.
Does this mean anything. Would an AM work differently than a WS module?
Technically, no.
However the two wire wall switch does depend upon receiving the X10 signal via the incandescent bulb it is controlling. Hence the resistance of the bulb might reduce the signal fractionally.
Unless you have the AM plugged in to the same circuit branches that the troublesome wall switches are on, it tells you little.
The rule of thumb is: If it worked once, and now it don't...what has changed?" Something has. It could be as simple as moving a noise making device from one outlet to another. It could also be a CFL going bad.
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Even though your system had been working fine for years, you may have had marginal signal levels that were barely adequate for reliable operation. It doesn’t take much to tip the scale – something as simple as a new cell phone charger can kill a properly working X10 system.
A couple of decades ago all we needed was a passive coupler at the distribution panel to get our systems working. Now we have to deal with all kinds of electrical devices that are hostile to X10 powerline communication. To get a better understanding of the issues and how to deal with them, you might want to read some of my troubleshooting guides:
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
Jeff
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Well of course the people saying that something had changed or that it was noise are probably right.
Last night two of the 4 WS modules worked with the MS. So I guess I am on the edge and something in the house is causing signals to be lost or confused.
Clearly I have more electronic devices now than when I first installed the X10 system.
To be continued ..............
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"This is an unpaid infomercial".
XTBIIR from JV Digital Engineering (first choice)
or
CR234 from ACT (second choice).
If you do not expect your system to ever get larger, these repeaters may not be worth the cost. But a good strong signal will likely make your problem dissapear. Also I have seen the X10 repeater (XPCR) on ebay for as low as $20. But, being X10, it has it's own set of problems.
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Well I have new information to report in this continuing saga.
I installed an XPCR according to the instructions and it had no effect. LED never comes on even though some of the WS modules do turn on.
I have double checked the installation and voltages and the XPCR is receiving power.
To reiterate, all of the 4 WS modules were working fine until I changed the batteries in the MS module. Now half of the WS modules work sporadically and inconsistently (turning on but not off or the reverse).
Signed
Stumped in CT
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So the Red LED is not flashing; indicating an X10 signal was received and repeated.
You may want to double check you picked the right Black wire for the second phase.
You should also have 120 volts from the Black or the Red to the White and 240 volts from the Black to the Red.
The XPCR could be defective or the signal from the TM751 is not getting to it.
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I have checked for the proper voltages and installation. All seems correct. Am I correct in assuming that the MS should trigger the LED status light?
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If the MS is being received by the TM751 and its power line signal is reaching the XPCR. The XPCR should resend the X10 power line signal back on the other phase and the LED should flash.
Do you have any other X10 controllers?
You could move around the house and see if the XPCR does flash in some locations.
A hand held remote and the TM751 moved to varied locations could also see if the signal is getting to the XPCR from some locations.