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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: Coyotefred on January 06, 2011, 09:13:54 PM

Title: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 06, 2011, 09:13:54 PM
Hello all,

I searched around the forum here and couldn't find an answer to this, but if it's been addressed before please point me in the right direction.

I've been slowly adding X10 modules over the past year and decided to install a x10 switch to control a basic (but not X-10) motion-activated floodlight on my porch, hoping that this would allow me to remotely turn this "off" and "on" remotely as needed when I'm away from home.

Well I installed the WS-467 and it doesn't seem to work--either controlling the outdoor light via AHP or manually at the switch.  It will turn on "sometimes" using both of these methods, but inconsistently and not most of the time.  I have old house wiring (no neutral) so just two wires going to the old switch it replaced.

I know there are X-10 motion sensors and outdoor lights with onboard X10 modules and installing one of those might be the best way to go, but for the time being I was hoping to use the existing non-x10 motion light with the wall switch if that would work.  Are there any known issues/problems with doing this (it has incandescent not CF bulbs by thew way).

Thanks!
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on January 07, 2011, 06:55:36 AM
The WS467 steals power through the load. Which should be incandescent type.
Since the lights have electronics in them for motion detection and on off control. The WS467 can not work properly.

If you had a neutral then the WS13A with a relay style output would probably work.

You maybe better with a X10 style floodlight fixture.

Another option would be a fixture style module like an XPFM in the fixtures electrical box; but that would still need an added part with the old fixtures.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 07, 2011, 12:16:19 PM
Hmmmm....that would explain it.  So if I were to get a unit like the PHS01 http://www.amazon.com/X10-Floodlight-Motion-Detector-model/dp/B0018LKA5K (http://www.amazon.com/X10-Floodlight-Motion-Detector-model/dp/B0018LKA5K) that would obviously allow to me to remotely turn the unit "off" and "on" remotely via the AHP software...  But what about manual control?  I don't use the x10 remotes around the house at this point and would prefer to just use a wall switch like I've been using... ?
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on January 07, 2011, 01:45:57 PM
I use a PRO Wall Switch Appliance Module to control a PRS511 Floodlight so it only operates at certain times, not 24 hours a day.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on January 07, 2011, 06:22:41 PM
You may want to check the X10 sales site.
I believe the X10 version of the unit is on sale.
http://www.x10.com/promotions/pr511_ed_alert_1m_promo.html

With only a switch loop you would not be able to  use a X10 wall switch or controller.
You could use a standard wall switch to kill the AC to it during the day.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 07, 2011, 06:35:54 PM
That looks like the way to go...thanks for your help! :)
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 29, 2011, 11:30:53 AM

'Just a reply to my own original post here for the future reference of others, or perhaps some additional advice from you pros... 

I finally got around to buying and installing the PR511 motion sensor with dual floodlights.  It looks like a solid unit and installation was a snap, but in the end it still doesn't allow me to do what I want to do....turn the floodlight OFF remotely.  From what I can see, you can:

1. turn the PR511 "ON" using an X10 controller which keeps the lights "ON" permanently with or without motion (if you're having a party outside or wanting to work outside, etc.)

2. turn the PR511 "OFF" using an X10 controller; contrary to what you might think, this doesn't actually turn the unit "off," but rather puts it in normal "motion mode," ready to turn on when it detects motion.  It does not turn the unit "off" like, say, a wall switch would

So this still leaves no way to actually turn the flood "OFF" remotely, say if you had really windy conditions and didn't want to be wasting energy and you didn't feel a security need was there justifying the protection.  From what I can see, the critical link is still an X10 wall switch which I wasn't able to make work.  At that point a "normal" (non-X10) flood would work just as well, although it wouldn't give you that capability to trigger other X10 modules if you were wanting that...

'Any additional thoughts/ideas appreciated :)

Coyotefred
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Tuicemen on January 29, 2011, 12:22:40 PM
You could always run new wire to just that switch! ::) :'
I know, not the suggestion you were looking for! rofl
 >!
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: JeffVolp on January 29, 2011, 12:29:30 PM

Our PR511's are wired directly to power, so there is no way to turn them off except via X10 commands.  They never come on unexpectedly except during lightning storms.  Wind should not be a factor unless there are things blowing around that are not at the outdoor ambient temperature.

Unfortunately, you need a relay switch with a neutral connection if you do want to turn them off entirely.

Another option might be a macro triggered by the PR511 "ON" command to echo back an OFF command when you don't want them on.

Jeff
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 29, 2011, 02:03:14 PM
Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the help.  Wind is factor because I have some bushes/trees right near the doorway within motion detector range.  So if the unit is running, I'm going to be getting false positives much of the time.

Could you be a little more specific on setting up that macro option you're referring to...I'm not exactly clear what you're suggesting.

Thanks for your time!
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: dave w on January 29, 2011, 04:00:16 PM
Is there room to install a XPFM in line Appliance Module in the box with the PR511?

http://www.x10pro.com/pro/catalog/receivers.html#wire
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: JeffVolp on January 30, 2011, 12:04:51 AM
Wind is factor because I have some bushes/trees right near the doorway within motion detector range.  So if the unit is running, I'm going to be getting false positives much of the time.

Could you be a little more specific on setting up that macro option you're referring to...I'm not exactly clear what you're suggesting.

We have bushes under one of our PR511's, and there are never any false triggers on windy days.  As long as the branches are the same temperature as the background, they will be invisible to the motion detector.  It will only detect objects that are a different temperature from the background, such as a warm body.

The PR511 can transmit an "ON" command when it activates.  That can be used to trigger a macro in a controller such as the CM11A or CM15A to delay a second or so, and then issue an OFF command to turn the floodlights back off.  You would have to condition that macro with a flag to only run when you want the motion detector disabled.

Jeff
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on January 31, 2011, 12:50:23 PM
Huh...interesting on the motion detection technology...I will leave it on and see if I have issues with the tree.

I did reinstall the WS-467 wall switch again and it does now work as far as turning off/on power to the PR511.  The only issue I now have is that when I "power up" the PR511 with the wall switch, the floods come on and won't usually shut back "off" into "ready mode" for the motion detection.  I think the PR511 instructions say something about needing to activate the motion detector once to do this, but this obviously isn't an option when you're trying to control the whole thing remotely...

???
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on January 31, 2011, 02:19:39 PM
I would still use the Pro Wall Switch Appliance Module (XPS3) to fully control a PRS511 Floodlight.   AHP can them totally control when it's on and off.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on January 31, 2011, 03:56:52 PM
The WS-467 is not made to control the PR511. That is most likely why it is flaky.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: dave w on January 31, 2011, 06:12:51 PM
I did reinstall the WS-467 wall switch again and it does now work as far as turning off/on power to the PR511. 
Oh boomer, you are asking for trouble. Listen to Dan and Brian. There are reasons why X10 says "Incandescent Lights Only" on the instructions, on the web site, and on the switch label.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on February 11, 2011, 08:07:55 PM
When setting up a module to control the XPS3 via AHP, what's the recommended "module" setting...I'm not seeing XPS3 in the pull-down menu, but some of the texts runs outside the window...  thanks!
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on February 12, 2011, 06:24:03 AM
In the module subcategories.
There is a Pro Series module list.
It is in that section of the modules choices. I just looked and it is in the Pro Line section.

X10 WS13A is the X10 version of the XPS3
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Coyotefred on February 12, 2011, 11:25:58 AM
Hmmmm...I'm into the Pro Modules list and the only ones I see there that appear close are the "Pro Wall Switch Appliance M[cut off]" and the PRO Companion Switch???
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on February 12, 2011, 12:44:16 PM
Pro Wall Switch Appliance M 'odule' is cut off.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on February 12, 2011, 08:04:23 PM
Pro Wall Switch Appliance M 'odule' is cut off.

Did you mean Pro Wall Switch Appliance M "odule" is cut off.

Coyotefred needs to be more specific.  What version of AHP is he running.  My 3.305 shows it fully in the Pro Modules section.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Brian H on February 12, 2011, 08:24:16 PM
Dan; In 3.305 if you uses the choice edit and add module. You see exactly what was reported.
If you use the modules list. It does show the whole thing.
Maybe he is using the edit and add module choice.

I learned something new myself. I was always using the edit and add module method.
I now know you can also use the module drop down list and drag a module to the room and add it.
Title: Re: Wall switch (WS-467) controlling motion-activated outdoor floodlight?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on February 13, 2011, 11:57:35 AM
Dan; In 3.305 if you uses the choice edit and add module. You see exactly what was reported.
If you use the modules list. It does show the whole thing.
Maybe he is using the edit and add module choice.

I learned something new myself. I was always using the edit and add module method.
I now know you can also use the module drop down list and drag a module to the room and add it.

Thou art correct.  The result is you do get the proper module.