X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: sir_rob on April 13, 2011, 02:13:15 PM
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I have set up a macro to be triggered when I turn an appliance module on. It turns that module off after 4 hours (battery charger for tools). I changed it to no delay to test it out though. What I found is that the "off" command never gets sent. I changed the codes so that the signal would be received in a different room with a different transceiver. This time it worked just fine, but the remote would not work from that distance. I then tried the original codes and found that if I used the remote in the same room with my CM15A (computer USB interface) the macro fires just fine. I do have a coupler on the dryer outlet, and I have a XPCR coupler/repeater/amplifier installed. I have filters on equipment that I know causes problems.
Any ideas?
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Is it that the "off" command doesn't get sent, or does it not get received? I'm almost betting that the chargers are a noise source in themselves and you might have to put a filter between the appliance module and the chargers.
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I have just confirmed that it is not the transceiver. I temporarily moved it to the garage, and everything worked perfectly with the original codes. Then I changed the codes and put it in the family room that is next to the garage. The module turns on, but the macro never turns it off. That means that I know of two outlets (different rooms) that the transceiver will function in, but the macro does not respond if the transceiver is used in those outlets. I know of some outlets where everything works perfectly, but I did not intend to buy another transceiver just for one appliance module. I would prefer to fix the problem so that I can avoid future problems as well.
Admins, please move this thread if it is in the wrong category.
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... I did not intend to buy another transceiver just for one appliance module. I would prefer to fix the problem so that I can avoid future problems as well.
now, explain to me again why you'd buy another one? TM 751's don't play nice with cm15's.
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I just checked the activity monitor. It does not have any entries for this behavior. In other words, I do not think that Active Home ever registers these events, and hence does not respond. When it does respond (when using a transceiver is a different outlet), the macro kicks in and the module turns off just fine.
The problem is that Active Home never "hears" the transceiver turning the module on from certain electrical outlets. Any ideas?
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So are you saying that the problem might be that my TM751 and CM15A are not playing well together from certain outlets and that may be the entire problem? Should I replace it with a RR501 or just get a RR501? Do RR501's have the same problem as the TM751's?
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A TM 751 has no powerline receiver circuit in it, and cannot tell when the lines are clear to send through a signal, therefor it is known as "impolite". This can cause 2 signals to crash into each other and render both a null and void.
The RR501 is a polite unit.
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I agree, but that does not explain why AHP "hears" the TM751 very reliably when it is plugged into certain outlets and not at all when it is plugged into other outlets. In fact, I just confirmed that AHP does not "hear" signals from my RR501 when it is plugged into those same outlets. So the problem is not with the TM751 or RR501, but somewhere between the transceiver and the CM15A at my computer.
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hmmmmmmmmm
maybe your phase coupler isn't enough.
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That is possible. I have two of them installed (XPCR and a plug-in dryer module), but that makes more sense to me than anything else that I can think of.
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I agree, but that does not explain why AHP "hears" the TM751 very reliably when it is plugged into certain outlets and not at all when it is plugged into other outlets. In fact, I just confirmed that AHP does not "hear" signals from my RR501 when it is plugged into those same outlets. So the problem is not with the TM751 or RR501, but somewhere between the transceiver and the CM15A at my computer.
I just jumped into this thread and being a "old geezer" is too difficult to try and wade thru it.
However AHP will not necessarly know if /when either the TM751 or the RR501 "turned on". Neither transceivers transmits a status when they change state (RR501 can be polled however). So if the TM751 or the RR501 is activated by an RF transmission from a RF remote which the CM15A does not receive, then AHP will not know of the status change. I'll go back to sleep now.
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You have two coupler repeaters or one passive coupler and a coupler repeater?
Is the dryer one also a coupler repeater?
We know the XPCR is a coupler repeater.
Two repeaters stepping on each other could be a problem.
So could a noise maker or signal sucker. That was not filtered yet.
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The dryer coupler is passive. I think it is this one: SignaLinc Plug-In Phase Coupler (For 3-Wire 220v Dryers).
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However AHP will not necessarly know if /when either the TM751 or the RR501 "turned on". Neither transceivers transmits a status when they change state (RR501 can be polled however). So if the TM751 or the RR501 is activated by an RF transmission from a RF remote which the CM15A does not receive, then AHP will not know of the status change. I'll go back to sleep now.
I am using a wireless remote that is received by a transceiver (TM751 or RR501). The transceiver then sends the powerline x10 signal to the appliance module. If the transceiver is connected to certain electrical outlets the CM15A catches the powerline x10 signal during this process. When the transceiver is connected to other electrical outlets the CM15A does not catch the powerline X10 signals, and for this reason the macro is not triggered. Dave, hopefully that made it a little easier to follow. Thank you for the comments.
Removing the phase coupler on the dryer has no effect. Once I installed some filters and the XPCR, all of my other communication problems went away. This is the only lingering problem that I know of. I can send signals across the two phases pretty reliably now. So I am not sure if the signal is getting consumed by some electronics along the way, or if it really is a phase coupling problem.
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OK I got it. Not quite understanding why you would use a repeater AND a passive coupler, unless you have second panel. Setting that aside, assuming the XPCR is still cranking, I would consider a noise problem.
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I got the passive coupler first. It did not do the job, so I got the XPCR...
I have to agree with you on the noise issue. I ordered another RR501. That will take care of the problem for now, but I fear that I still have a noise problem lurking. At least I will be able to have a functional system even before I track down the source of the noise/problem.
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Noise sources are switching power supplies which are appearing in everything. Suspects are computers, flat screen TVs (even when "OFF"), power bricks for laptops, etc. cell phone chargers or any "wall wart" that is very light weight, like nothing inside. And certain brand CFL bulbs. Disconnect these starting on the suspect circuits, and see if communications improve. If so start plugging things back in until you find the culprit.
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I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to do.
Are you triggering the macro to turn on the charger, or do you have the macro and the appliance module set to the same address, and are triggering both at the same time?
I suggest you try setting the appliance module to a DIFFERENT address than the macro, and use the macro to turn the appliance module on.
That way, you can separate the actions and see if the problem is with the CM15A not hearing the remote, or the appliance module not hearing the CM15A.
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I am having the "on" signal from the wireless remote to the transceiver turn on the module and trigger the macro (same address). The macro then turns the module off after a period of time. One way to guarantee that AHP hears the "on" signal and always turns the module off appropriately would be to set the macro to a different address and set the macro to turn the module on, and then off after a period of time.
I have confirmed that the problem is that AHP does not hear the signal from the transceiver from certain electrical outlets.
FYI - I have put filters on almost every computer and TV. I do not use CFL bulbs (we use a lot of dimmers).
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One way to guarantee that AHP hears the "on" signal and always turns the module off appropriately would be to set the macro to a different address and set the macro to turn the module on, and then off after a period of time.
Correct. If you turn the module on with the remote (instead of the macro), you have no way to know if the macro started or not.
I have confirmed that the problem is that AHP does not hear the signal from the transceiver from certain electrical outlets.
Actually, it is the CM15A that isn't hearing the command on the powerline. AHP only knows what the CM15A tells it.
FYI - I have put filters on almost every computer and TV. I do not use CFL bulbs (we use a lot of dimmers).
Filters might not fix everything. You may need to do more extensive troubleshooting.
Have you tested without the battery charger plugged in? Try plugging in something simple as a test (like a table lamp with an incandescent bulb), and see if you can control the module that way. It is possible that the battery charger itself is the noise source.
My personal recommendation is to do the "Breaker Box Test." In a nutshell, you first need to map out your breaker box, and make sure you know EVERYTHING that is controlled by each circuit.
The first test is to shut off one circuit at a time, and test the powerline communications each time. If it works with one specific circuit turned off, then you have something on that circuit that is either causing noise, or sucking the signal.
If you can't find a single circuit that causes the problem, then you might want to try the opposite test. Turn off ALL of the circuits, EXCEPT the ones that have your transceiver and the CM15A. Create a simple test macro and try it with only those two circuits on. (You probably want to also turn on the circuit with the repeater on it). If THAT works, then try turning things on one at a time, until it stops working.
If it doesn't work with only those two circuits on, and you have disconnected EVERYTHING else on those circuits, then you may need a more powerful coupler/repeater, or a booster like the XTB-IIR (www.jvde.us).
The XTB-IIR (Jeff Volp designed a really great device!) will replace your current coupler/repeaters, and your CM15A plugs into it. It gets wired into a dedicated double-pole (two phase) 220V circuit at the breaker box, and should be mounted close to the breaker box. Your CM15A plugs into the front of the XTB-IIR.
The XTB-IIR takes any powerline commands the CM15A sends, and boosts their power level before blasting them out on both phases at the same time. It also takes any powerline signals it sees on one phase, boosts them, and sends them to the other phase (as well as sending them to the CM15A).
It can overcome a lot of noise (and signal suckers), and may just resolve your issue. However, there is an expense in buying it (and hiring someone to install it if you aren't comfortable working in your breaker box). You may want to do some testing first.
Jeff also makes the XTBM signal meter, which might help you find the source of your noise problems.
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Seems like all of us "X10 Oldies" are continully saying and re-saying exactly what Noam has said so well here. If only we could find a way of force feeding to every newbie with the " Can't get modules to work..." etc. etc. etc. questions
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We have a few troubleshooting threads and I guess we can gently point them out to the user.
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Thanks for the advice. I actually have done most of what Noam recommended and installing the filters fixed most of the problems. The XPCR fixed the rest. I suppose that something could have changed since then, or perhaps I was not as thorough as I thought I was.
The battery charger vs. a lamp plugged into the module makes no difference. The problem is that the CM15A does not "hear" signals from transceivers plugged into certain outlets.
At this point, I suppose I just need to retest for noise/suckers on a few circuits.
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Thanks for the advice. I actually have done most of what Noam recommended and installing the filters fixed most of the problems. The XPCR fixed the rest. I suppose that something could have changed since then, or perhaps I was not as thorough as I thought I was.
The battery charger vs. a lamp plugged into the module makes no difference. The problem is that the CM15A does not "hear" signals from transceivers plugged into certain outlets.
At this point, I suppose I just need to retest for noise/suckers on a few circuits.
Testing for noise again is never a bad idea. yo might be surprised about what could be causing the noise.
Have you tried testing at different times of the day?
Last summer I had a problem that was only happening at night. It turned out to be my neighbor's outside porch lights (he had a bad CFL). They were only on at night, so that was the only time the noise would affect my system. I was amazed at how much noise that one bulb was creating, to be able to travel through the power lines all the way across the street. Replacing the bulb fixed the problem.
Another test you might try, is to plug an appliance module into the outlet where you use the CM15A, and try to activate it from a transceiver plugged into those same outlets you were using. I suggest checking those two circuits for other devices, and disconnect everything else to be able to do a clean test.
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We have a few troubleshooting threads and I guess we can gently point them out to the user.
What we need is an EASY way to do that.
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Another test you might try, is to plug an appliance module into the outlet where you use the CM15A, and try to activate it from a transceiver plugged into those same outlets you were using. I suggest checking those two circuits for other devices, and disconnect everything else to be able to do a clean test.
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Great idea!