X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: freeballer on May 02, 2011, 07:56:56 PM
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I have two question about my new activehome pro and which modules I should get.
First, how far is the range of a typical module/homebase? I had an idea to put a motion/light sensor in my mailbox to alert me when the mailbox is opened. Its roughly 100-150ft away from the house. <- I'm not asking about the motion sensor's effective range but the wireless signal range.
Second, someone had told me the "poll"-able two-way modules were no longer produced/manufactured.. Is that true? I saw they were available on x10.com...
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First, how far is the range of a typical module/homebase?
Second, someone had told me the "poll"-able two-way modules were no longer produced/manufactured.. Is that true? I saw they were available on x10.com...
What are you calling "homebase". TM751? RR501? CM15A? The CM15A has the poorest range.
X10 range is very limited. Without antenna modifications, unobstructed range is maybe 50 feet. Less if going through walls. There are plans on this forum for modifying the CM15A receive antenna and adding passive radiators and "blow gun" antenna mods to the xxxEye style motion sensors, but even with these mods I think 150 ft would be pushing it.
X10 has not made 2-way modules in 5-6 years. Where did you see them on X10.com?
Smarthome.com does have X10 protocol modules which transmits back status changes.
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cm15a USB. How complicated are the builds? I have a little soldering experience but not much else. It might be closer to 100ft and only one wall really in middle of it. Any peticular model of motion sensors are best?
I saw the two way in the x10 activehome app and on other sites. When I googled the model no# it says it was not manufactered for a while.. are Smarthome.com "backward compatible" with x10?
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The Smarthome 2000 series X10 compatible modules are also long gone.
The Insteon and Icon lines do except an X10 Primary Address programmed into them and are two way.
They will respond to a status request and send a power line signal when locally toggled.
The dimmer versions are not exactly like the X10s.
The Insteon implementation of X10 is based on an "old" x10 protocol similar to that used by the PCS Smartswitches. These devices used "preset Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.
X10 brand, Leviton, and other manufacturers conform to a "newer" X10 standard that uses "extended code Direct Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.
When you locally dim an Insteon module it will send a %dim on the power line that the X10 controller will not respond to.
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There are plans on this forum for modifying the CM15A receive antenna and adding passive radiators and "blow gun" antenna mods to the xxxEye sttle motion sensors, but even with these mods I think 150 ft would be pushing it.
The only way that I got that kind of range using the "blow gun dart mod" was using the v572 receiver. The cm15 wouldn't pick it up. Now all my signals get received by the v572 and then relays to the cm15. Just thought I would let you know.
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hawk1; I had forgotten about the WGL V572. It has a very good long RF distance reputation and does all 16 house codes.
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Brian, bought one and never looked back! Couldn't be more pleased with it. If someone wants range from "rf" then this would be the critter to get! IMOP >!
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Brian, bought one and never looked back! Couldn't be more pleased with it. If someone wants range from "rf" then this would be the critter to get! IMOP >!
I also use a WGL V572. I completely agree.
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that might be a future purchase but until I get some range issues elsewhere its expensive just for an item on my "would be nice" list. Its nice to see there are some options in case though. Reg the modding, I haven't found the article suggested in the replies. Anyone have a link?
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Our search function is your friend.
Try things like antenna mods or cm15a mods in the search.
Here are two.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=r7jdfhd1qu3rmbo1s3j7k6r6d3&topic=19959.0
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=9n3j6g0pl4erfuh0ugqk1oj856&topic=18863.0
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I haven't found the article suggested in the replies. Anyone have a link?
Search: "CM15A range", "antenna", "passive radiator", "passive repeater" "F connector".
The simplest mod is to wrap a few turns of an 18 inch wire around the CM15A antenna and let the rest of the wire hang.
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much appreciated! thank you for the link, and advice.
There are so many mods, and brilliant ideas here my next week day off I'm going to sit down and bookmark some of these projects.
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hawk1; I had forgotten about the WGL V572. It has a very good long RF distance reputation and does all 16 house codes.
(http://www.comm4all.com/images/product_images/popup_images/v572aes.jpg)
Are you talking about this. no doubt this version have very good RF which can cover very good distance.
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Thats the one! If you need to receive security signals make sure you get the right one! :)%
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Thats the one! If you need to receive security signals make sure you get the right one! :)%
Thanks! Ya surely i will try to catch the right one for better result.
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I've been fairly disatisfied with the motion sensor range or the usb/x10. I briefly looked at the WGL V572 but
I need it to do some macro functions - so it need to be detected by activehome or similar. I also spliced together
a website for controlling my usb pro...
No matter where I place the x10 something isn't "covered". I put x10 in middle of home and two modules, put x10 on side wall and I can't get
the "door sensors" in range. They literally have 25-30ft range MAX. I already did the wound wire trick - nada. Two types of wires, one insulated and one not.
I may try the antenna trick posted but I was wondering about the antenna from TM751, or similar item at radioshack. Could those work at all?
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We have had members use an antenna from a TM751 or a Radio Shack one. With success.
I have done the 'F' connector mod to a CM15A and used an antenna from a V572 in the attic. That worked well also.
WGL sell replacement antennas as do some of their dealers.
Couldn't you use the X10 power line signals from the V572 to trigger the macros.
Thought I believe even when set to not transceive any house codes. RF signals received are still processed by the CM15A.
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No matter where I place the x10 something isn't "covered". I put x10 in middle of home and two modules, put x10 on side wall and I can't get
the "door sensors" in range. They literally have 25-30ft range MAX.
The wrapped wire mod should have made some detectable improvement, but 25 to 30 foot range with the un-modded CM15A is actually pretty good if transmitting through mutiple walls. That is one advantage to the "F connector" mod for the CM15A, or the WGL unit, in that it allows the antenna to be mounted in your attic (if you have one), which puts the antenna above multiple layers of dry wall.
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The v572 receives rf signals and sends a powerline signal to AHP, which in turn runs your macros. I have this setup and works very well. Just thought I'd let you know. >!
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I'm not sure what the "wrapped wire mod" you did is, but I had great success with the "18.5-inch reflector" mod.
I simply tapes an 18.5" length of insulated electrical wire (I think it was 12 gauge) alongside the CM15A's antenna, making the bottom of the wire even with the "elbow" at the bottom of the antenna. A few wraps of electrical tape holds the wire in place. There is no electrical connection to the CM15A's antenna, and it doesn't void the warranty, either.
For me, that seems to work incredibly well, and I get great coverage throughout my whole house. (I tested by using a PalmPad to activate a Chime module. The chime is loud enough to be heard throughout the house, so I could go room-to-room with the remote and test the RF receiver on the CM15A).
It took me only a few minutes to do the mod, and I was able to to remove the RR501 I had been using.
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I'll try that Noam. I just bought a chime for the door sensors.
Maybe I should try some different gauge wire and retry those wrap mods.
The problem with the range I mentioned was one was direct line of sight (same room, only 22ft),
the second had a few layers of drywall.
two questions about the V572:
If I chose to locate it in the attic will it effect it using a large extension cable (Powerline commands)? There are no outlets in attic so i'd need 30-40ft of wire minimum.
Will all traffic/macros be sent to the cm15a? I have some pc only macros for e-mailing and a abelcam plugin that works with my cm15a
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I don't think it should, but I've never tried that. I have mine in a utility room plugged into a XTBII that is wired straight to my breaker box. Maybe some one can chime in and answer.
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If I chose to locate it in the attic will it effect it using a large extension cable (Powerline commands)? There are no outlets in attic so i'd need 30-40ft of wire minimum.
If you are referring to the 4-conductor "telephone" cable between the V572A and the PSC05/TW523, there is no problem running that 40 feet.
Jeff
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Maybe I should try some different gauge wire and retry those wrap mods.
two questions about the V572:
If I chose to locate it in the attic will it effect it using a large extension cable (Powerline commands)? There are no outlets in attic so i'd need 30-40ft of wire minimum.
Will all traffic/macros be sent to the cm15a? I have some pc only macros for e-mailing and a abelcam plugin that works with my cm15a
You can use 18 -24ga stranded or solid. Nothing is critical other than the 18 inch length and even that is give or take an inch. The inductively coupled antenna extension really acts as is a test to see if a better antenna on the CM15A will help. Noams suggestion of an 18 inch rigid wire taped to the existing antenna will work as well if not better. If the test improves reception, then the WGL unit or the "F connector" mod will really improve reception.
I mounted my F connector modded CM15A in a closet near my HA computer. Ran simple RG 6 coax with the last 18 inch of outer insulation and shield stripped away to make a crude 1/2 wave antenna, up through a hole in closet ceiling and attached the stripped antenna portion of the coax as high as I could in the attic. Installed an F connector on the closet end of the coax and connected to CM15A. Pretty easy, very cheap, and it trippled my range. A Palm Pad will work about 40 feet outside of home and anywhere inside. I did this "on the cheap" and used junk box parts. I suppose you could use BNC connectors and RG58 coax since the receiver in the CM15A is near 50 ohm input impedance, but it will tripled the cost. Also the 1/4 wave ground plane antenna would probably squeeze a few more yards out of the current range. This thread has some good antenna designs.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=12292.15
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=9470.90
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I'm still considering the f-mod or antenna swap. I tried the wire trick with 18g wire, and some thinner wire and had no luck.
I remembered using coathanger wire once for a makeshift antenna in my youth. So I cut the bottom part (which is almost exactly 18")
and ziptied it to the antennna. Once I adjusted it about 1/4 from bottom it started to get the signal from my motion sensor. Its seemed to give it around
10-20% better coverage so far.