X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: cousindave on April 19, 2012, 03:03:59 PM
-
Hi, Newb here. What does it mean when the on/off button on my TM751 clicks in response to the on/off buttons on my HR12A, but the function is no longer carried out? Thanks, Dave
-
Is the TM751 a new one or a older one that has changed how it works?
Does it click a few times. The internal ratchet switch has broken and it no longer will turn On or Off depending on if it was On or Off when it failed.
It it is a brand new one. The On Off function was removed but I believe the clicking relay was also removed. So it would be quiet.
-
It means the TM751 is receiving the signal from the HM12. The TM751 will the put the received command on the homes powerlines. So either the TM751 is no longer putting the signal on the powerline (it's bad) OR (and this is far more likely) you have developed a noise problem. Meaning, there is a source of electrical noise between the TM751 and the target module (or CM15?) wiping out the X10 command.
http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm
-
If you are not talking about the internal relay in your TM751 not working but other modules are not following the HR12s commands over the power lines.
dave w has probably nailed it.
-
Yeah, This is one of those "depend how you read the question" questions. I didn't even consider something plugged in the TM751 not working when button # 1 on remote is pushed. We need batteries for our crystal balls. :D
-
Thanks guys. The function to be controlled is in fact plugged into the tm751. So am I reading that noise is not an issue if the internal relay is used?
-
If the device you want to control is connected to the TM751s bottom outlet. Power line noise should not be the problem.
The TM751 is not a recently purchased one is it and did it work at one time?
Can you hear it click a few times as it tries to change states?
-
Thanks guys. The function to be controlled is in fact plugged into the tm751. So am I reading that noise is not an issue if the internal relay is used?
Yep, I concur with Brian. It isn't noise. It must be defective TM751. If you hear it click, is it clicking as loud as it used to be? Clicking indicates the solenoid in the latching relay is working but the little cam assembly perhaps isn't rotating as it should. Might be a simple fix. I would at least open the 751 and make sure the relay contact can move up and down freely. You can also use a pick and try and rotate the little cam that lifts and lowers the relay contact. FWIW
-
If the device you want to control is connected to the TM751s bottom outlet. Power line noise should not be the problem.
The TM751 is not a recently purchased one is it and did it work at one time?
Can you hear it click a few times as it tries to change states?
Purchased 3-4 years ago. Worked fine in the same exact spot where it is now, until we had some work done and had to unplug for 3 weeks or so. Hasn't worked since. BTW, I have confirmed that all dials and switches are positioned correctly, in case they got bumped or something. It only clicks once, actually. That is, one click when the remote's 'on' button is pushed and one click when its 'off' button is pushed. Now that you mention it, I thought it used to click more....
-
Yep, I concur with Brian. It isn't noise. It must be defective TM751. If you hear it click, is it clicking as loud as it used to be? Clicking indicates the solenoid in the latching relay is working but the little cam assembly perhaps isn't rotating as it should. Might be a simple fix. I would at least open the 751 and make sure the relay contact can move up and down freely. You can also use a pick and try and rotate the little cam that lifts and lowers the relay contact. FWIW
It clicks just as loud, but only once for each state. The housing says "no serviceable parts inside." Do you suppose I should try your fix anyway?
-
I had the TM751 feeding our Onkyo receiver stop powering up receiver even though the relay was still clicking on and off correctly. That receiver pulls a slug of current when it turns on, and I thought the relay contacts may have become oxidized. After burnishing them with very find sandpaper, it is working good as new again.
Jeff
-
Okay, with your help I've decided to go ahead with replacement of my TM751, as well as my HR12A. Before I do perhaps one of you can tell me if you see any problems with my configuration which has worked for 3-4 years, but for all I know is the cause of my prematurely blown transceiver? (photo follows description):
- Motorized traversing drapery mechanism hardwired to UM 506 Universal Module and plugged in to the TM751 transceiver. Both are plugged in to the same 110v wall outlet. Open and close is controlled by HR12A remote.
(http://advancedon-site.com/steinx10config.jpg)
-
You did try the RR501s output with a different load to rule out the controlled device has not failed.
Check the model number on the transceiver. It looks like the RR501 that was the better of the two models offered and unfortunately discontinued. Though some dealer may still have a few.
The clue is the RR501 has a Unit 1 or 9 switch the TM751 is hard wired to unit 1. The RR501 also has a power line receiver in it so other power line controllers can turn it On and Off. The TM751 has no power line receiver in it.
The new TM751s X10 is now shipping has no internal relay and has what they call a pass through outlet that is always ON.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/RR501
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/TM751
-
Good eye, Brian. You caught me. I'm doing all my research remotely and assumed I had a TM751 based on its close resemblance to the one in the photo, which is my only reference 300 miles away from home as I am today. Well then, where do you suppose that leaves me? I can't have a pass through that's always on in this mix, can I? Thanks for your help thus far.
>!
-
I think I found the answer. As you pointed out, some dealers may have some RR501 units left. Looks like Amazon.com does. Just in case, where would you go without one, if I may impose further.
-
I have also seen RR501s on EBay and Amazon. Usually around $30-$45.
You could also check some of the indpendent on line X10 dealers for their TM751s and ask them if they are made before X10 removed the switched outlet for a always On version.
As long as you are using Unit 1 for your HR12s command. Either one in your photos setup would work. If you are using unit 9 then only the RR501 would do it.
Personally I like a RR501 over a TM751 anyday.
You may want to see if the relay is dirty as Jeff mentioned. The RR501 is the easier of the two transceivers to disassemble.