X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: dhouston on May 30, 2017, 01:10:30 PM
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I'm going to be testing a device (strapped to my wrist) with the following specs...
Operating system: Android 5.1
Frequency: GSM850/900/1800/1900 WCDMA 900/2100
Antenna: BT4.0/GPS/WIFI
4 buttons:power button, back button, SOS buttons (Call A, Call B)
Heart rate/blood pressure sensor : PH8002
6-axis gyroscope
GPS tracker,SOS emergency call, Fall alert, Removal alert, Low battery alert, Medicine alert, Phone call Monitor mode, Pedometer
waterproof: IP67
Support: API, TCP/HTTP protocol integration
I'm still awaiting an English language user manual let alone a technical manual detailing the various features but with WiFi, Bluetooth, cell phone, SMS, GPS, able to run Android apps and an API, I am hoping to find a way to interface it with some (preferably simple) HA interface.
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I wonder if it will interface with the google (or Alexa) device(s).
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I wonder if it will interface with the google (or Alexa) device(s).
That will depend on the API - for which I'm still awaiting documentation.
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I wonder if it will interface with the google (or Alexa) device(s).
That will depend on the API - for which I'm still awaiting documentation.
I will be following this thread with real excitement. There are several devices I'd love to try.... this is one.
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I will be following this thread with real excitement. There are several devices I'd love to try.... this is one.
I'll report my progress here but it may be slow going. It's new and the company that makes it has been late at every step. I was promised documentation a couple of months ago - I'm still waiting.
I did expect it to be of interest to some of the old timers here. It's targeted at the elderly and I came across it when searching for something that might help a former brother-in-law with Parkinson's who has had several serious falls (with multiple broken bones). And, as it happens, I fell on Xmas day and finally had to call 911 after struggling for a couple of hours to right myself.
The quality is excellent based on the exterior appearance. I'll need to open it up to replace the band so hope to get a view of its innards then.
I plan to try it with a Consumer Cellular SIM card as soon as I have adequate documentation. And I may even update my Basic4Android license so that I can write a state-of-the-art APP or two with their API.
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I did expect it to be of interest to some of the old timers here.
........... as it happens, I fell on Xmas day and finally had to call 911 after struggling for a couple of hours to right myself.
That can be a very dangerous position to be in... glad it worked out.
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I love the Dick Tracy wrist watch idea.
However I wonder how much of a market there is for it now a days.
I retired my watch when I retired.
Ask people on the street now for the time and most pull out their cell phone now.
I look forward to reading your test results dhouston.
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I love the Dick Tracy wrist watch idea.
However I wonder how much of a market there is for it now a days.
I retired my watch when I retired.
I think they are looking at a limited market targeting the elderly, retirement homes/villages, nursing homes, etc. They are not competing with the Apple Watch or Android Wear.
I also retired my watch years ago but had I one of these when I fell Xmas, I could have avoided a severe rug burn on an ankle that still hasn't healed 100%. I visit a Wound Care Center weekly and a nurse comes 3 times a week to change the dressing.
Those with Parkinsons frequently develop dementia. My brother-in-law has gotten lost a few times. With one of these his wife or daughter could monitor his location.
I think it has excellent potential within this limited market. I hope I can create Android Apps to interface with some HA hubs but I want to keep it as simple as possible rather than try to work with all the rapidly proliferating hubs.
I have a user manual for an earlier watch with most of the same features but that wasn't waterproof. This one isn't meant for scuba diving but should be safe in the shower of even the bathtub (30 mins or so max). Another problem with the earlier model is that the antenna was in the band meaning it could only be changed at their factory. This model has internal antennae and the band can be replaced. I'm looking for a velcro version for those whose fingers are no longer nimble and have suggested they should supply it with same.
The earlier manual uses very awkward English. If ever I get a user manual for this one I'll try to rewrite it in my own limited English to make it more understandable amongst fellow English speaking geezers.
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I hope I can create Android Apps to interface with some HA hubs but I want to keep it as simple as possible rather than try to work with all the rapidly proliferating hubs.
Given that it can download and run Android APPs, this could be as simple as installing existing APPs that interface various HA genres reducing/eliminating the need to write/support my own APPs.
And, it might be practical to call home to the new Amazon/Google video phone devices and issue voice commands to do things like open the garage door as you approach in your car.
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...... My brother-in-law has gotten lost a few times. With one of these his wife or daughter could monitor his location....
Given that it can download and run Android APPs, this could be as simple as installing existing APPs that interface various HA genres reducing/eliminating the need to write/support my own APPs.
And, it might be practical to call home to the new Amazon/Google video phone devices and issue voice commands to do things like open the garage door as you approach in your car.
You might want to look at what they call geo-fencing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo-fence). It could restrict and/or trigger events based on the location of the device/person. Things like locking and or unlocking doors, closing and opening gates/garage doors, or even emailing (texting?) people who monitor another's comings and goings.
One of the things I like about Siri (Apples phone voice assistant).... is I can use her/it to make a call (by yelling "hey Siri" first) to anyone/place in my address/phone book... or even just send a text. Or... I could also call 911 if need be. NOW.... even my Alexa/Amazon voice device can do the same (calls no text, yet). I think Google has something like that for Android too.
The trick.... is remembering to keep my phone with me when just running to the basement/garage/outside. Which is also out-of-voice range for Alexa. I think your wristwatch sized device is perfect.
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You might want to look at what they call geo-fencing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geo-fence). It could restrict and/or trigger events based on the location of the device/person. Things like locking and or unlocking doors, closing and opening gates/garage doors, or even emailing (texting?) people who monitor another's comings and goings.
That's built-in.
One sets up a perimeter that sends an alert when the watch exits the zone. My brother-in-law's keepers will be notified when he breaks out.
Another sets up a second perimeter and sends an alert upon entry. This will let my brother-in-law's wife go drag him out of the strip club. rofl
However, the alerts (see image) are via text (i.e. SMS) so I'll have to explore how one might utilize them for HA.
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@dhouston does this have expandable memory?
If not that may be the only draw back I can see for installing some third party apps.
I didn't see mem size in the specs you posted.
Using the text alerts would be no big deal. You can create something with B4A to read SMS messages and watch for specific words in the message and if from a contact.
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I don't think it's expandable but the earlier watch specs said 512+4GB. You probably have a better feel for how adequate that might prove.
All of the setup has to be from an external cellphone (or Siri?) via SMS. And that phone should be one of the two SOS numbers. For lack of a better term, I'll call the two SOS numbers Geezer Keepers. It would simplify things if the setup could be via USB which is used to charge the battery. Without documentation I don't know the capability of the USB connector - the watch snaps into a cradle, making contact with 4 pogo pins for charging but the data pins may not be connected.
I'm enroute to the Wound Care Center - will try to add to the discussion later.
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This is another excerpt from the manual for the earlier model.
...an Android smart watch, supports independent calling with SIM card, and supports Google service. It has Google Play and can install APPs.
Hopefully, it will allow entry of a few numbers that can then be called without needing to punch in each digit.
One potential issue is that the alerts are also SMS messages sent to the Geezer Keepers so they will need cell phones. And a Geezer Keeper needs to request GPS data via SMS with the result coming via SMS. That saves battery power by only using GPS when queried by a Geezer Keeper.
As I've been homebound for several years, I've had no need of a cellphone besides a flip phone I carry on my rare trips out into the world at large. If ever I get some documentation, I'll order an inexpensive cellphone from Consumer Cellular and opt for their minutes sharing (between watch & cell) to minimize my costs. That will let me experiment.
My brother-in-law and his wife use Consumer Cellular as well. They are in an off the beaten path but not remote area. They might be a better test of the watch cellphone connectivity than my more urban location.
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Good news:
I received a User Manual.
This version has 8GB memory. (Max is 16GB.)
They also sent the Geezer Keeper APP that needs to be installed to the supervisory cellphone.
Bad News:
This version is less waterproof than I was told earlier. It's safe in the shower but should not be immersed. However, the standard band is leather and that may not hold up for many showers .
Antenna is in the band and can only be changed at the Shenzhen factory. This makes it unacceptable for use by the elderly who will be unable to manipulate the standard band with buckle. This is especially difficult for my Parkinson's afflicted brother-in-law or for anyone with peripheral neuropathy and is a deal killer. In earlier emails with the manufacturer I was assured that this version would have internal antennae and the band would be user-changeable. I am seeking clarification. If the band is not user-changeable I'll be returning the one I have. I'll also need to return several bands purchased from Amazon that I was hoping to try.
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The memory is a concern to me.
My old phone is 16 GB and I'm constantly removing apps to try any new app.
If it will pair to a smartphone to utilize apps on it as well, memory may not be a big deal.
I believe 32 GB is entry level for a new phone now.
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I've no clue as to the memory chip used but have noticed with Itead and other ESP8266 & ESP32 devices that the memory chips are the same physical size even with much greater capacity.
I doubt that the intended target (i.e. geezers needing keepers) will be playing games or streaming music/video so the 16GB may be adequate. I really do not have much expertise here. The processor may also affect how much memory can be used.
http://mediatek-mobile.com/mediatek-mt6580/ (http://mediatek-mobile.com/mediatek-mt6580/)
I don't know what chip they use for pulse measurement but some are extremely accurate and may even be able to predict heart attacks, Afib, etc. And some can also measure blood oxygen levels.
I think the watch has enormous potential but is DOA in its current configuration at least for the geezers needing keepers market.
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At this point I think I've spent the past 5-6 months at B:(
I was told this new model would be IP67 waterproof; it's IP56.
I was told this new model would have a band without an antenna in it; it has an antenna and can only be changed by their factory.
While the watch may still survive a shower, the leather band will not survive many of them.
As is, it is totally unsuitable for the elderly who frequently have peripheral neuropathy and cannot handle the buckle on the band and who are at increased danger of falling when in the shower.
I have asked for a return authorization.
For anyone here who might be interested, here's a link to the company's website.
http://www.exschina.com/index.html (http://www.exschina.com/index.html)
The G9 is the latest model. The G99 is the earlier model. They cost about $100 each plus DHL. The company (EXS) is looking for dealers.
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You should check out the Amazon DOT.
I just tested mine... and asked Alexa to call me (I said my name). A she looked up my number from my phone contacts (she/Amazon had already download that data).... and called my iPhone. At that point I was setup to have a speaker-phone conversation.
I know I can operate the Amazon/Alexa from a room or two away.... so maybe three device total to cover my entire house. Bought when they're marked down (on sale) at $39.... that ain't too bad. And NO monthly fee.
That would solve the calling for help problem. And setup with the right hub and door lock... a user could even unlock a door from a fallen position.
On a purely automation-use, note:
I've taken to Amazon music more than I ever thought I would. Being able listen to streaming music while I shower sounds good. And listening to a news brief while I shave sounds about right too.
P.S. I just asked Alexa if she can text. She/Amazon said "I can send a voice message: Say send a message".
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When it is sitting in its charging dock and the dock is plugged into my PC, it displays the correct time so my guess is the USB data pins work, meaning it should be possible to create software to do the configuration this way rather than needing a cellphone. The PC software could be password protected from geezer hackers.
Lacking both SIM and cellphone, I cannot proceed.
The speaker is adequate for a phone conversation. (It played a chord at start up.)
The color display is very good. (It displayed a scene at start up.)
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You should check out the Amazon DOT.
I have phones in every room but one so it was more that I'd always been able to get up on my own from past falls that caused me to keep scooting around and trying. In fact, I reached someone a few minutes after falling but, it being early Xmas evening, she was unable to reach others who could have helped. I finally got tired of waiting (& scooting) and called 911. And, I've had a lockbox on my door for 3+ years now anticipating I might need it.
Most of my brother-in-law's falls have been while outside so Dot probably would not help him. I hope I did not get his hopes up.
My interest in the watch is more for others than personal. I first got into X10 because of the Windows 3.1 TTS software (SpeakOUT!) I wrote for those who'd lost the ability to speak from CP, ALS, etc. So, it seems things are coming full circle.
I regret wasting my time and really regret being misled since early February about the watchband and IP rating - had they included the new user manual in the shipment or emailed it a day earlier I would never have posted here. There are millions of senior citizens (whom Consumer Cellular targets) and fellow veterans who could really use this were it as initially presented to me.
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@Tuicemen:
Can Bluestacks send SMS from Windows 10 via the text gateway for Consumer Cellular? If so, I might get a SIM card and try playing with the watch.
If I have to pay shipping (both ways) to return the watch, I'll be out about $70 with nothing to show for it; if I keep it, I'm out about twice that but will have the watch.
A 1-1/4" display will make one truly appreciate "fat finger" errors/typos but having an Android smartphone on one's wrist is way kewl.
File Manager indicates there is 11.8GB available with several APPs already installed.
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...... My interest in the watch is more for others than personal. I first got into X10 because of the Windows 3.1 TTS software (SpeakOUT!) I wrote for those who'd lost the ability to speak from CP, ALS, etc. So, it seems things are coming full circle.
I've used BVC for years (and actually still do).... a program written by one of this forum users to control X10 (using windows XP's SAPI5 voice recon tech). His goals were always to be helpful to those who need assistive technology. I was happy to be of any small help with BVC.
I regret wasting my time.......
We tried many different things using Bill's Voice Commander (BVC). Most of the things I tried didn't work. In many cases... the technology just wasn't there yet. But I never considered any time spent on trials (or dollars spent) a waste. It is the failures that we learn from... and the learning is how we progress.
Just keep trying.
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@dhouston I'm unsure if Bluestacks can send a SMS may be with an app that uses the Wi-Fi or a email app.
The key will be knowing the text gateway for Consumer Cellular.
I have to admit I never attempted texting with Bluestacks I used the B4A bridge to test apps so I was using a real phone.
With expressing the band and other issues to the company is helping them improve the product.
They may provide a free replacement band that will hold up to repeat showers.
Make some band design suggestions like using Velcro instead of a buckle
The fact that it has to be done at the factory is a pain but if a small jack for the antenna was added this wouldn't be required.
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I know the text gateway and I've already made those suggestions re the band - I made them four months ago and was told the new watch would have an internal antenna and a band that users could replace.
Anyway, it's a dead issue now since the watch itself is now DEAD. The battery is fully charged but the screen is blank until its placed back in its cradle with external power. Then the screen says...
Select Boot Mode
[Volume UP to Select Volume DN is OK.]
- Recovery
- Fast Boot <<<
- Normal
There is no volume control - unless it's on the developer's PC in Shenzhen. So it's going back and I'll have to eat the shipping costs and PayPal fee. At this point, I'm concerned that I'll have to open a PayPal dispute to get any refund.
They badly need someone who speaks English. One APP has Chinese characters in its logo and an English name of HeaTeRate. It monitors pulse and blood pressure with numerous errors in English once it's opened.
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Wow that didn't last long. :(
It is to bad the company didn't implement your suggestions.
I guess they're not expecting users to live long.
Users won't request replacement bands from the grave or for a dead watch
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Wow that didn't last long. :(
It is to bad the company didn't implement your suggestions.
I guess they're not expecting users to live long.
Users won't request replacement bands from the grave or for a dead watch
I suspect they are much smaller company than their web page pretends. The English in the G9 & G99 User Manuals is very awkward and is even worse in the APPs they created for the watch. That's not the case with most of the Chinese companies I've dealt with.
That said, I still think the concept is superb and they could sell millions were they to address the issues I've identified.
1. It needs to be configurable from a PC over the USB link. They can password protect the PC application to prevent mischief. This should also apply when changing SIM cards. (Currently, requires reset by factory.)
2. Use a universal velcro like band that is more elder-friendly. For example...
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UYM6W2Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UYM6W2Y/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
3. Add blood oxygen measurement if pulse/BP sensor is so capable.
4. They need better manuals and need in depth technical documentation so that users are not flying blind.
5. A lot of onscreen text is too small for elderly eyes. They should add gestures to expand/shrink screen areas to make reading the screen easier.
Finally, navigation between screens is awkward. That could be better with better, detailed docs but they also need to rethink the ON & BACK buttons.
I suspect it will work equally well just as a wrist mounted cellphone for general use - it's not limited to geezers and their keepers. And, it's likely we can find ways to use it with HA hubs.
BTW, it came back to life just as mysteriously as it died.
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The battery died after 8-9 hours but part of the reason may be that it appears to implement an undocumented feature called Lift Wrist Display (mentioned in the H09 watch description on their web page) which turns on the display for 1-15 seconds with almost any wrist movement. They should instead use wrist movements to recharge the battery.
I think there's a way to turn this feature off. If I find it I'll try to measure battery life w/o it.
When I started the thread I expected it to be a narrative of finding ways to interface with HA. At this point it has devolved into a blow-by-blow account of my battle to the death with this watch. Perhaps it would be best to move it to the General Discussion area.
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Although your progress has been hampered I still believe you can use something like IFTTT with the watch.
I still think this is the correct place for the thread as there are several watches that will interface with a phone out there.
This one is a step above, and once the kinks are worked out, looks promising.
I'll have a look over the manual in any case.
>!
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It does have a lot of potential with more features than watches costing far more but I'm not hopeful that they will listen to suggestions.
It looks as if they have ported Android cellphone software to the watch but without really grasping some of the problems presented by a 1.54" screen. For example, it can send/receive SMS & MMS but neither are practical IMHO - the screen is too small for a keyboard. It's even too small for entering configuration data. It would be better if all of the configuration could be done on a PC and transferred via USB. Most onscreen text is far too small to read.
It has these APPs...
Downloads Google Phone smsCtrlCenter
Email Google Settings Play Store Sound Recorder
File Manager heateRate* SMS Settings
Gallery Music Voice Search
arranged 4 per screen (each column above represents a screen) and you can swipe left/right to navigate.
*I suspect they mean HeartRate as this measures pulse & BP.
Voice Search might be useful if we could tap into it for using voice commands, to make phone calls, even to type in letters/numbers in lieu of a keyboard. IOW, make it a Siri or portable DOT.
I fear my ongoing health issues may limit my contributions to making suggestions.
I found no way to disable the Lift Wrist Display - only to set the default time its ON with 15 secs MIN. It needs to be disabled to prolong battery life. I left in its cradle overnight and put it on at 8:00AM with a fully charged battery. I have no SIM yet so this will not be a definitive test of the battery but it is a start.
It says it has 11+GB available but also says 8GB MAX - another indication that it's NYRFPT.
I think the buttons are problematic for most geezers or frail LOLs. The ON & BACK buttons could be replaced by a tap for ON And a pinch for BACK. I'd keep the SOS buttons as they will not be needed all that often.
PS: As yet there's no word on when the promised API might be released.
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The SMScotrolCentre app uses SMS to talk to software on another monitoring phone so you'll need unlimited text from your carrier.
Email, music, gallery & maybe sound recorder I don't see being useful for it.
Voice search enables VR on phones so this would allow for a VR app. so it would be useful
Since voice needs the internet a data plan would be required from ones carrier though if one never left home that wouldn't be the case.
Play Store is required for most app installs though you may be able to allow direct installs with a settings change.
With no sim card it is true a battery test would be flawed as phones continually look for a cell tower signal and not finding one will drain the battery over night. I'm not sure this is the case without a sim present.
Looking over the manual it appears to me you could create an app with B4A and directly test it on the watch.
I'd look at the Voice libraries and build something with them as the screen is far to small for much else.
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Consumer Cellular's Shared Connections...
These are also sometimes called Family Plans. You can share the minutes, text messages, and web data on your plan with friends, family—anyone you choose—for only $10/month per additional line. And calls between phones on the same Consumer Cellular account are free!
would reduce the costs between geezer and keeper.
However, at this point I doubt the battery life is anyway near adequate. Yesterday it died after about 7 hours. I suspect that with a SIM card and normal activities, it would need to be about 3x its apparent capacity.
They also sent me the SMScontrol keeper APP. I think I'll see if it will work with BlueStacks.
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To test battery capacity, rather than putting the watch on my wrist, I removed it from its charging cradle at 8AM and placed it on my desk. At every hour, I checked the time. Somewhere between 10 & 11 hours, the battery was drained. This was w/o a SIM card.
There's no use in any further testing. It's a great concept but an extremely poor implementation.
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.......... It's a great concept but an extremely poor implementation.
That is the bad part about "cutting edge". Once marketing demands and time effectively work-out all the bugs.... it's no longer cutting edge it's mainstream.
Like so many of the new "flavors" of Home Automation products on the market now.... many are unknown commodities. X10 on the other hand has been in use for decades and it's performance is well known.
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I agree - the technology is not yet here - that's probably why Apple Watch and Android Wear merely pair with normal cellphones rather than being cellphones themselves.
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The geezer keeper features are what attracted me to this watch as it seemed ideal for my brother-in-law. Given that I was misled on key features I will NOT believe anything the manufacturer now says and am turning my attention elsewhere.
A web search using 3G GSM Smartwatch turns up numerous watches without the geezer keeper features but with underlying features that might be used in a somewhat similar manner with custom APPs.
They might also be attractive to those who might want to try them as HA Assistants. The usually have WiFi, BT, SMS, etc. that might be used to interface with HA, again with custom APPs. They can also sync with standard smartphones though I'm not sure I see the need (but then I have no smartphone).
Most promise several hours talk time and 2-3 days standby time. Some offer wireless charging.
I'm not sure my ongoing health issues will let me develop the necessary APPs but I hope to to explore the possibility if I can find a watch with a changeable band that is IP67 waterproof.
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The geezer keeper features are what attracted me to this watch as it seemed ideal for my brother-in-law.
My Mother-in-law was moved into a nursing home due to her diminishing capacity several year ago. At first she would try to escape. Other patients-residents there would do the same.... or just wander off.
They used a (battery powered) RFID system. And there was a device actually attached to the patients-residents [in question].
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Consumer Cellular has this...
https://www.consumercellular.com/Products/639/Details (https://www.consumercellular.com/Products/639/Details)
The fall detector and GPS might help with my brother-in-law.
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That's what my dad had (or a very similar variant). It works just like the commercial ("I've fallen and I can't get up"). It doesn't work like a phone, but it does help with serious medical issues. I don't know for sure if his had the cellular connection (for the price, it should have). I know it worked around the house very well (he bumped it a few times and the person responded quickly).
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I think I found a watch/phone that will work for my brother-in-law. It's only 2G but that's probably adequate for this application. It has...
Fall detector
SOS button
2 pre-programmed numbers
Auto-answer
Geofence
GPS tracking
Simple band closure that he can likely manage
He has a cellphone (when he hasn't lost or fallen atop it) so there's no real need to replace/duplicate its features.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZGPAX-X83-Elder-GPS-Tracking-Smart-Watch-Phone-SOS-Anti-falling-Intercom-C8E1/201635491813?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D7dd90efb6c3243e5995ac083d71d7c43%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D142240200818 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ZGPAX-X83-Elder-GPS-Tracking-Smart-Watch-Phone-SOS-Anti-falling-Intercom-C8E1/201635491813?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D7dd90efb6c3243e5995ac083d71d7c43%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D142240200818)
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Supports SOS emergency phone, voice intercom, remote monitoring, electric fence, anti-lost alarm, tracking online, telemonitoring, etc.
I like that feature. In case they get away you can nuke them until they turn around! 8)
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His wife may be hoping that's not a mistranslation.