X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: nabril15 on June 26, 2024, 08:54:11 PM
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Hello Brian and Robin
I have an xps2 with code 5, controlling a pool pump, and a bulb rocket socket with code 6 and an led bulb from home depot.
Just about every day, the pool pump comes on just as my NEW mt14 mini timer send the 6 ON signal. I then have to turn the pump, code 5, off with my remote control. And sometimes that turns off code 6 as well.
So whenever 5ON is sent from the mini timer or remote, 6 comes on.
Yes, I can change the pump's code number to another number, like 3, to test. But what can be causing the signals for 5 and 6 to cross?
My MT14A timer is brand new from Big John.
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There is only a single data bit difference between a 5 and a 6.
That could be a reason they interact with each other.
If you had a X10 signal displaying device. You maybe able to see exactly what is being sent and possibly a cure.
Housecode Device Code Binary Value
A 1 0110
B 2 1110
C 3 0010
D 4 1010
E 5 0001
F 6 1001
G 7 0101
H 8 1101
I 9 0111
J 10 1111
K 11 0011
L 12 1011
M 13 0000
N 14 1000
O 15 0100
P 16 1100
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1. If different loads are used (like two appliance modules with nothing plugged into them) does it still happen?
2. Try cycling the code switches to remove any oxidation.
3. Try without the LED bulb.
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1. If different loads are used (like two appliance modules with nothing plugged into them) does it still happen?
2. Try cycling the code switches to remove any oxidation.
3. Try without the LED bulb.
thank you guys
I tried number 2, cycling the code switches on the xps2, and I changed the xps2 to code 3. So, pressing 5 doesn't turn 6 on any more, but I see that 6, the socket rocket doesn't turn off on its own some mornings. I will replace that led bulb with an incandescent bulb (I think I have), to test.
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Guys, help please.
The pump now has code 3, and an hour ago, I used my HR12 remote to turn on lights #2, #1, and #6, and all of them turned the pump on IN ADDITION to their individual lights. Number 1 is a wireless receiver module, number 2 is for 2 XPS3 switches, and number 6 is a socket rocket lamp module.
What can I do to isolate, further troubleshoot, and defrustrate? I'm pondering changing the pump's XPS2 to house code B, and then having to change the code on the HR12 to B to only turn on the pump, and then returning it to A for the rest of the house.
Why oh why, is that XPS2 controlling the pump receiving other numbers?
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Have you tried a different XPS2?
See what happens when you change the house code.
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Any X10 repeater in the mix? That could be messing things up?
What are you using for the HR12A X10 RF receiver to the power line?
If it is a TM751 or RR501. They only do one House Code. If you use a second House Code. The TM751 or RR501 will also need to be reset. Along with the HR12A.
The MT14A can only be set to one House Code. So more than one House Code can cloud things up.
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I suggest replacing the XPS2.
I've had problems with XPS3 switches in the past losing their minds when they get old. Among the quirks I've observed are:
- Not responding to transmissions whose signal is too weak
- Not responding to transmissions whose signal is too strong
- Responding intermittently
- Turning on/off erroneously in response to partial transmissions
- Turning on/off erroneously in response to transmissions intended for other unit codes
- Turning on/off erroneously in response to transmissions intended for other house codes
- Turning on/off erroneously in response to line noise
My theory is that when the switch's electronic components age, the PIC eventually receives a distorted signal and either skips incoming bits, interprets noise as missing bits, or both, though I haven't done any reverse engineering to back that up.
Since XPS2 is the 240V version of the XPS3, they're likely the same design otherwise.
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Have you tried a different XPS2?
See what happens when you change the house code.
Any X10 repeater in the mix? That could be messing things up?
What are you using for the HR12A X10 RF receiver to the power line?
If it is a TM751 or RR501. They only do one House Code. If you use a second House Code. The TM751 or RR501 will also need to be reset. Along with the HR12A.
The MT14A can only be set to one House Code. So more than one House Code can cloud things up.
This may come out funky with multiquotes.
1. I don't have another xps2 to try. I changed its code to 10, and it still turns on on its own when the mt14a sends other on commands. Should I change the xps2 house code to B to try it out or rule out xps2 craziness?
2. I have an xtbr repeater plugged in under the main panel.
3. Perhaps my xps2 is flaking out??
4. I have an IBM HD501 that has RR501 in the fcc id
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Can't hurt to try the XPS2 on B as a test.
Just remembering to use the remote. Both the HD501 and the remote have to be set to B. Along with the MT-14A
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thanks Brian
Yes, using code B is more involved and manual. Agghh
Two minutes ago, I turned on the pump, #10, from the remote, and, as usual, #6 came on; number 6 is a rocket socket screwed in a sconce.
So, in essence, turning on/off other numbers may or does turn on the pump. Or, turning the pump on/off may or does turn on #6 only.
Sure, I could start to disconnect x10 switches, and chargers and bulbs, but, honestly, I don't have the energy to troubleshoot. Obviously, having some sort of x10 signal reader would be an easier start to try to find the culprit(s), but I think they don't exist any more.
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This is usually a symptom of powerline noise. Turn off or disconnect any likely noise generators and see if that makes a difference. Likely culprits are CFL or LED lights and small plug-in power modules. But anything with a switching power supply can inject noise onto the powerline.
Jeff
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Power Line noise as pointed out.
Is starting to be a possibility.
You may want to go that route and see if you can find something.
You don't find may X10 signal meters these days.
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This is usually a symptom of powerline noise. Turn off or disconnect any likely noise generators and see if that makes a difference. Likely culprits are CFL or LED lights and small plug-in power modules. But anything with a switching power supply can inject noise onto the powerline.
Jeff
thanks Jeff---what are some "small plug-in power modules"? USB phone charger bases, for example?
And switching power supplies? - tv's? Anything that can be powered on by a remote, right?
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thanks Jeff---what are some "small plug-in power modules"? USB phone charger bases, for example?
And switching power supplies? - tv's? Anything that can be powered on by a remote, right?
Small plug-in power modules are just that. They could be cellphone chargers or power modules for various widgets. Many things today have a separate power module rather than plugging directly into the AC line.
Most electronic devices today have dispensed with large, heavy, and expensive 60Hz transformers. Instead they rectify the AC line voltage and feed it to a DC/DC converter to produce lower voltages. When that converter runs near the X10 carrier frequency, it can cause problems.
Jeff
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FYI, although Jeff's XTBM Signal X-10 analyzers are the best, they're no longer available. The Monterey X-10 Signal Analyzer is also a good choice and if you're willing to spend the money, there's one on ebay right now at https://t.ly/oPr8W
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thanks Jeff---what are some "small plug-in power modules"? USB phone charger bases, for example?
And switching power supplies? - tv's? Anything that can be powered on by a remote, right?
Small plug-in power modules are just that. They could be cellphone chargers or power modules for various widgets. Many things today have a separate power module rather than plugging directly into the AC line.
Most electronic devices today have dispensed with large, heavy, and expensive 60Hz transformers. Instead they rectify the AC line voltage and feed it to a DC/DC converter to produce lower voltages. When that converter runs near the X10 carrier frequency, it can cause problems.
Jeff
the always technical Jeff. Thank you for the explanation.
I will do some testing over the next weeks to see if I can isolate one culprit, hopefully.
Meanwhile, I did a search for a "smart 220v" switch, and I came across some other possible solutions for me to isolate my pool pump from the other x10 things I have at home. I love x10, but the whole #10 and #6 coming on at the same time and having to check that front door light every day is getting aggravating. Plus, when we travel, who knows what came on or not.
1. Dewenwils makes a wifi boxed switch that works with an app and can handle all the cabling and switching.
2. Another possibility is to get a contactor and some sort of smart switch, but I'd like to stay with X10 and not have to have multiple technologies.
I suggest replacing the XPS2.
3. Sure, get another XPS2 since mine went bad, perhaps. It's from January of this year and was bought new, so perhaps this is not the culprit.
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FYI, although Jeff's XTBM Signal X-10 analyzers are the best, they're no longer available. The Monterey X-10 Signal Analyzer is also a good choice and if you're willing to spend the money, there's one on ebay right now at https://t.ly/oPr8W
I just saw this. Used and $150. Wow.
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FYI, although Jeff's XTBM Signal X-10 analyzers are the best, they're no longer available.
Months ago a customer had me order enough PCBs and components for him to assemble a small batch of the XTBM-Pro. I don't know the current status, but you can contact me privately for his contact information.
Jeff
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good morning guys.
I share this so as to vent, and laugh, and cry. X10 is wonderful, but it is also frustrating X 10.
I began troubleshooting and isolating things yesterday so as to figure out why #6 and #10 weren't getting along. The #6 bulb socket is on the outside sconce, so to check it being on or off, I've had to open the front door and look up to see a lit or unlit bulb. So, I decided to replace the current switch to that light, a regular Decora switch, with an XPS3 so that I can at least hear the click when it comes on; obviously, I would remove the socket rocket. Since that XPS3 isn't new and gave me problems a year ago, I thought, "what if I test the socket rocket and reprogram it to #6?".
I screwed that module onto a table lamp with an incandescent bulb, and using my CR12A remote, I learned that it responded to #14, which is the 6 with the slider on 9-16. So, somehow it responded to #6 from the MT14A, and #14 from the CR12A. After scratching my head for minutes, I tested the CR12A on the other modules numbers 1 - 8, and they all worked fine.
I reprogrammed the socket to be #6, tested it several times, and so far it has behaved normally. I turned on the pump a few minutes ago, and #6 didn't come on, so FOR NOW, things seem to be working, nominally.
thank you for your help and reading
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Those slider switch contacts may be bent, worn or oxidized so may need cleaning/adjustment. Glad to hear you solved it!
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Those slider switch contacts may be bent, worn or oxidized so may need cleaning/adjustment. Glad to hear you solved it!
are you referring to the remote control, CR12?
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Glad you found the problem.
The Socket Rocket has a programming phase.
When first powered up. Any X10 command it sees more than once in the first 30 seconds may reprogram it.
It is possible your remotes 1-8 or 9-16 may have been flaky and it was on 9-16.
If I remember correctly 9-16 is an open connection on the unit code selector switch.
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Those slider switch contacts may be bent, worn or oxidized so may need cleaning/adjustment. Glad to hear you solved it!
are you referring to the remote control, CR12?
yes
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CR12A Camera Scanning remote or the HR12A Palm Pad?
The CR12A has some features that can scan through 4 cameras.
By turning one on in a group and the other three off in that same group automatically with out you needing to turn the original off before turning the new one on.
If it is a CR12A that may contribute to the situation.
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CR12A Camera Scanning remote or the HR12A Palm Pad?
The CR12A has some features that can scan through 4 cameras.
By turning one on in a group and the other three off in that same group automatically with out you needing to turn the original off before turning the new one on.
If it is a CR12A that may contribute to the situation.
Hey Brian. I own a CR12A with a label in the back that says "Camera Control System", so your comment about the built-in programming introduces more questions and possibilities into this.
It is possible your remotes 1-8 or 9-16 may have been flaky and it was on 9-16. If I remember correctly 9-16 is an open connection on the unit code selector switch.
Ok, that's possible, I suppose. But up until a week ago, my pump with #10 would come on whenever my MT14A would send the on command for #6 on any other lamp - I had no way of knowing. And the MT14 only works with codes 1-8, so #10 coming on was obviously weird. To complicate this even more, yesterday I learned that the socket rocket was programmed somehow to #14 instead of 6 !!!!
X10, I love you.
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The CR12A is almost like the HR12A Palm Pad. Except the two blue buttons on the bottom row.
If you address a module and then use the Blue Buttons, They act like the standard dim and bright buttons on the HR12A.
If you didn't address an X10 module. Then the scan buttons scan between the four addresses (House Code on the dial and units 1-4) To control addressable power supplies on the cameras.
One in the group is turned On and the other three turn off.
If the CR12A was set to 9-16 and the Socket Rocket was in the 30 second reprogramming mode. The button for 6 or 14 are both the same button on the CR12A. Depending on the 1-8 or 9-16 switch setting.
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Well, the mystery continues.
Yes, I solved the issue with the socket rocket coming on unwanted, but the pump (#10) continues to power off and on by something sent by the MT14 (1-8 only).
It's difficult to be nearby when it happens, but I will try to somehow catch what 1-8 ON command triggers number 10. I manually pressed all nunbers on last night, but 10 DIDN'T come on. So this is happening due to the command sent by the mt14's programming and not my manual push.
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In the MT-14A programming.
Are more than one X10 device being controlled at the same time.
Like two timed programmed for the same time?
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Perhaps Brian.
I explain.
Say, for outside landscape lights, number 7. I have the programmed to come on at 8. As we advance into summer, I will ADD an on time of, 7:45, then maybe 7:30. So, for most of my numbers i have more than 1 ON and OFF time programmed.
Is that.....wrong?
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I doubt it. Just extra on commands at different times.
I was interested in if two commands where timed at the same time. It sounds like is not the case.
The only thing I can think of. What is the difference between sending a command by time or by buttons.
My only thought would be the timer sends the address and then the command.
Tests this morning with MT13A showed my theory of using the manual buttons was different.
It is not different. I was thinking of the Maxi-Controller with a separate function and address buttons.
Though it did show something. The MT13A has a defective display and half of the digits are not there. :(
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Another thought.
The XPS2 is a 220VAC module.
So the X10 commands on each leg maybe the opposite polarity.
Since most setups would have a different level on each line.
They probably would not cancel the signal but maybe off chance get modified and look different to the XPS2.