X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Other Automation Systems => JDS/Stargate => Topic started by: RC1953 on July 05, 2024, 12:55:01 AM
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I have a JDS Time Commander that I took out of service in the late 90s when I upgraded to a Stargate. I was very dependable and was in working order at the time. I want to put to back in service but when connected it won't communicate with WinEVM. I get a check serial connection error message. It lights up and both LEDs are on solid when connected to the PLI, and the receive LED responds to X-10 traffic. I've tried it with both a new and old version of WinEVM (2.40 & 3.10) running on XP. The serial connection is working with my Stargate. Does anyone have any ideas as to what might be wrong. Thanks
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Sounds like you might need to change the COM port in WinEVM (you'll have to change it back for the Stargate).
1. Open WinEVM
2. Click 'Utilities'
3. Click 'Options'
4. Select a different COM port and try to connect. One of the 4 should work.
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Thank You Brobin! You pointed me in the right direction. Actually none of the com ports would communicate with the Time Commander. But while playing around with them I noticed on the older version of WinEVM (2.40D) there was a setting for Baud Rate. So I tried changing it from 9600 to 2400 and low and behold it worked. I guess my Time Commander is so old it won't support 9600. On the newer 3.10 version of WinEVM that I use for Stargate I don't see an Option to change the baud rate.
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Glad you figured that out. I forgot about the baud rate being limited to 2400 on the TC since, like you, I retired mine over 20 years ago. At least it's now posted here for posterity! What are you going to use it for?
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BTW, keep in mind that the old version of WinEVM has the old DST dates hardcoded so you'll have to work around that.
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I'm having some Stargate issues so I'm using the Time Commander to control lighting in my house until I get the Stargate back up and running. After I figured out the baud rate I thought I was home fee but that was short lived. The Time Commander would lock up whenever I started the schedule. I was running software version 2.40 and the firmware is 2.29. Then I found in the README file that firmware 2.40 was required for the 2.40 software. I scrounged around and finally found the original floppy disc with software version 1.12 and that solved the problem. The Time Commander is now running great. I do need to replace the coin cell because if the power gets interrupted I have to reset the date and time.
It doesn't appear that the firmware can be updated with FWTool like Stargate. I guess you had to get a new chip from JDS to update the firmware. Too bad because the 2.40 software is much nicer.
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I don't know if these will help but they're old versions that may be useful. Download them here (link expires 7/15/24):
https://www.filemail.com/t/ZqcoXyaL
Let me know if you need help troubleshooting the SG-1.
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Thank you Bruce. Are these Time Commander files? Do you know what version? Years ago I downloaded all the files from the JDS site. At the time I had moved on to the Stargate but I downloaded Time Commander files too. I'm glad I did because they are gone now. The TC versions I have are 1.12, 2.40d and 2.43d. The firmware in the TC is 2.29, it seems like there would be a WinEVM to match. I'm not spending a ton of time on the TC but I've written a schedule that closely matches my Stargate schedule. Then it will be ready as a back-up, and I'm also thinking of using it when I'm on vacation so I don't have to leave the Stargate plugged in. Too many lightning issues in Florida (I've lost two mother boards). When I hear thunder I unplug the Stargate, the XTB-RII, and my audio equipment. Sorry to ramble, thanks again for your help.
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I've had those files for a long time and don't know remember much about them.
Where are you in FL? I'm in Naples.
Even with a direct hit to the street transformer I've never had a problem. The only things I've ever had to replace are the serial port chips and the optoisolator on the phone board which I've since removed.
I do have whole house protectors in each electrical panel and another on the main feed to the house. I have an inventory of several SG1 boards and some other JDS hardware in my bins as well. Our house has a Lutron QS lighting system so X10 is only used for some plug-in modules, security system interface and some digital inputs and relays. I use Alexa to tie everything together including my Yolink stuff.
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I live in Tampa, we're practically neighbors.
I lost the first Stargate board in 2018 from a nearby lightning strike, it had been running since 1998 I had it unplugged from power but the surge came in through my XTB-RII and then up the Cat2 to the Stargate. Jeff fixed the XTB and said he had never seen it get past the opto isolation. Lesson learned - unplug the power and the XTB-RII. Fortunately I had a back-up board I'd picked up from JDS in 2008.
I lost the second Stargate board just a few weeks ago from a lightning surge. This time I had the XTB unplugged but did not get to the Stargate power in time. I'm sick about that.
I have another back-up Stargate that I picked up in 2016 from a guy that had never used it. It still had the cables and floppy discs (labeled Win95) sealed in plastic. But I can get it to communicate with WinEVM, it just tells me to check serial ports and connections. I replaced the serial port chips, as I saw in one of your posts, but that didn't fix it. Now I'm thinking it may be a firmware issue similar to my Time Commander experience. So I'm thinking of loading the floppy program and seeing if that works. Do You have any other suggestions?
In the meantime I'm looking for another mother board. I also purchased a beefy surge protector from ZeroSurge. And I thinking of going back to one of Jeff's XTB TW523 interfaces and eliminating the Cat5 connection to the XTB-RII.
I use the Stargate mainly for lighting, IR to my audio equipment, and a few digital inputs.
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If you can use the floppy and run WinSetup you should be able to get it working. Then use FWTool to update the F/W.
I found that I got better performance using a TW523 plugged into the XTB-IIR than the direct cable connection. Maybe that's saved me some lightning damage!
Both my WebX boards are wonky now even after being repaired. They will only send emails for a couple of hours after a reboot so I have them rebooting throughout the day.
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I'm going to try loading the floppy disk program and see if I get lucky. They don't have a version on them but it must be an early one as it says Win95 on the disk. I am running version 3.10 WinEVM and the readme file states that you must also be running the 3.10 F/W. So it does make sense that it won't work with earlier F/W.
I think using the TW523 is safer as it adds more distance between Stargate and the electrical panel (my XTB is at the main panel).
I have a WebX board but don't use it. I never could get it to work
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Brobin, I had high hopes that loading an earlier version of WinEVN would revive the Stargate but unfortunately it did not work. I still get a check connection/serial port error. I also tried using FWTool to update the firmware, which failed as well. When I connect it and power it up all 4 LEDs light up solid and then the bottom 3 go off one at a time and the top Red one stays on solid. Do you have any suggestions on what else I might try? I did try replacing the two serial chips.
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Have you tried running WSETUP? Are you connecting to the PC with a serial cable or USB adapter?
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I have run WSETUP and all of the parameters are correct. I am using a USB to serial adapter from the PC.
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Sometimes the USB to serial adapters can be tricky and need adjustment in Device Manager in WIN to work properly. Might you have an old laptop or PC with a serial port? Here's how I have my USB adapter configured:
For the TC change it 2400 baud.
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Sorry Brobin, I missed this. I didn't notice there was a page 2. My port settings are the same except my Data bits is set to 6. I am able to communicate with the Time Commander and Stargate (when was running). Should I change the bits to 8?
Do you have a copy of the 2.40 firmware for the Time Commander? i have the 2.04 WinEVM but there are no hex files in that directory. I'm wondering if I can update the Time Commander using FWTool if I have the .hex file.
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I would try changing the Data bits from 6 to 8 to see if it helps.
As for the old TC files, I can't find any on my hard drive but that doesn't surprise me as I've had a number of new PC's over the last 22 years since I upgraded to the SG. It's a long shot but you might try reaching out to Jeff Stein to see if he still has them.
Are you without a working Stargate now?
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I found the full setup file for 3.1! You can d/l here:
https://fromsmash.com/bsBHK~C9a6-et
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Thanks for the files Bruce. I'll give the 8 bits a try too.
The Time Commander is working for basic lighting. The biggest gripe I have is that the EVM & F/W version I'm using does not support "received only" commands. So if I use an X-10 sequence in the If Statement, it may get triggered by a transmitted command. I won't spend too much time on the TC, it just bugs me when I can't get the schedule working right.
I finally found a replacement Stargate and will be transitioning back soon. I'm straightening up the wiring, installing a surge protector, and eliminating the CAT5 run to the XBT-IIR. That will give me some additional layers of protection. I will still unplug it during storms.
I will continue to look for another board so I have a backup and I don't end up in this situation again.
I'm considering using a 12v battery backup to prevent unnecessary reboots. Do you use one in your system? If so do you have any best practices for setting it up?
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First, re: using a 12v battery backup, yes I have a 5ah one in the SG cabinet. If a reboot is required though, you have to disconnect the battery. What I did was install a DPST switch with one pole for the + battery lead and the other pole for one side of the 16VAC input so that both can be turned off together for a cold reboot.
2nd, as to getting around the limitation on the TC, instead of looking at signals received, you could look at status. IOW, instead of looking at
'IF A-1, A-ON Received'
as a condition, use
'IF A-1 is ON'
as the trigger. At the end of the event you can set A-1 to IDLE if you want to 'reset' the status without turning it off. In fact, I do the 'IDLE' status at the end of each of my Alexa trigger events.
That does have some limitations but in basic applications it'll usually do the job.
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Re:12v battery. The switch is a good idea. I would never have thought of controlling 2 different circuits with a DPST switch. Smart! I only used them to break both legs when I wanted something to be totally disconnected. Kind of silly I guess, unless there are 2 hots.
I'll give the device ON/OFF status a shot, that will probably solve my issue. I wasn't thinking that TC was keeping track. I'm
I tried the 8 Bit setting last night but still couldn't establish communication with the "never used" but broken Stargate. I keep thinking that if I could just wake it up and download the F/W that it would come to life. One time Jeff gave me some ASII codes to send to force a F/W download, but that only works if you can communicate with it.
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Are you using the same cable that you use with the SG1 serial port?
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Yes, I was using the same cable. And I also used that cable to download my schedule to my replacement Stargate and it did worked for that.
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IIRC, you mentioned that you replaced the MAX 232 chip(s). Check that the pins are all seated correctly and that one didn't get folded over on insertion. I know for a fact that this can happen! :'
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I just checked. Pins are all seated correctly.
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To make sure we're not missing anything, this is my understanding:
1. Known good cable is plugged into COM1 (3d one down) on the SG board and into a Serial-to-USB adapter (preferably with the Prolific
chipset) and your 32 bit version of WIN is running WinEVM.
2. MAX232 chips are seated correctly and installed with the notch at the top.
3. As configured, the port in your PC works/worked with other SG/TC boards.
4. In WinEVM under UTILITIES|OPTIONS, you've tried all four COM port settings after a cold boot of the SG1.
If all of the above is true it should be working. Do you have another MAX232 chip you can try? (Power off for replacement!)
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Thank you for your continued help.
1. Cable plugged into com1 on Stargate board. Prolific chipset. 32bit XP WinEVM. Tried both 2.40d & 3.10. (The disks that came with this Stargate were 2.04d)
2. Max 232 chips installed and fully seated. Also tried a new pair of 232 chips.
3. Same setup is communicating with working replacement Stargate and Time Commander.
4. Tried all com ports in WinEVM with cold boot.
When first powered up all 4 LEDs come on, then bottom 3 sequentially go out leaving top red LED on steady.
Another question: Is 18AWG stranded wire large enough for Stargate backup battery? Seems a bit small.
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18AWG is fine for the battery, that's what I use too.
Is this the new board that Jeff sent you or the old one that sustained lightning damage or another one? From the sound of it, I'm thinking it maybe a corrupted memory chip. If that's the case, keep searching for another spare and let this one RIP. I have one in the same condition sitting on a shelf.
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This is a board from a complete Stargate SG1 that I picked up on eBay in 2016. The owner said he bought it new and never got around to installing it. The box had some original packing in it. The disks, cables, and manual were in plastic and had never been open. I never tested it since it was new. Big mistake as I may have been able to have it repaired back then.
I have 3 boards that are RIP.
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One last thing to try although I doubt it'll make any difference is changing the coin cell on the board. I'm sure it's dead by now.
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I tested the coil cell a few days ago and it measured 2.91 volts. It is soldered to the board so I didn't pursue it any further.
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Probably won't make any difference. Unless Jeff has any other ideas I think it's >*<
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Probably won't make any difference. Unless Jeff has any other ideas I think it's >*<
Sorry, but I've never used either the Time Commander or Stargate myself. I was impressed by the Time Commander when it was introduced, but it was beyond my budget at the time.
I became a beta tester for the CM11A and CM14A (never released predecessor to the CM15A) before upgrading to the Ocelot two decades ago. While old technology, it still does everything I want.
Jeff
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Sorry for the confusion! I was referring to Jeff Stein, the "JDS" of JDS Technologies, the maker of the Time Commander/Stargate controllers. RC1953 & I have been in touch with him recently about the files mentioned above. Although Jeff has retired he's been very supportive of his users.