X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: adam on June 12, 2005, 01:13:41 AM

Title: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: adam on June 12, 2005, 01:13:41 AM
Just installed my WS467 toggle wall
switches and WS12A decorator style wall
switches.  The metal components on the
swtich behind the wall plate get extremely
hot.  Does anyone else have this problem?
Is it safe?  The switches have 500W maximum
capacity and I have a maximum of 360W on
the switch.  
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Brian H on June 12, 2005, 07:35:30 AM
Regular Incadescent lamps? Other type lamps
may overheat a triac dimming module. The
metal parts of the switch are the heatsink
for the triac and will get warm. Extermely
hot is another thing. If the switches are in
a ganged box with other dimming switches.
Each one has to be derated from the maximum
rating as the heat from each builds up in
the box.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: me too on June 12, 2005, 12:47:16 PM
A metal switch plate cover helps disapate the
heat, acting like a heat sink.  
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Brian H on June 12, 2005, 06:03:46 PM
Yes a metal cover plate will help to
disapate the heat. Is it too hot to touch?
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: adam on June 14, 2005, 10:48:15 PM
Yes - the metal parts of the light switches
are too hot to touch.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marcus on July 29, 2005, 02:31:17 PM
I am having a similar problem. I installed
some dimmer switches in my living room and
added a bunch of indirect lighting. I
hooked it all up and it worked, but some of
my workers messed with it. Now the switches
work, but get EXTREMELY hot to the touch. I
don't know what the problem is. In total I
have 44 60w bulbs. Is this too much for a
switch to handle?
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: GWS on July 29, 2005, 02:44:54 PM
If you are truly running 44 60Watt bulbs,
then you're pulling 2540 Watts. Five times
the rating of the WS467!!! The rating on
WS467 is 500 Watts.

No wonder its getting so hot. I'm surprised
it hasn't burned out.

This is a major fire hazard.

What you need is
http://www.activehomepro.com/accessories/acc_
wallswitch_ws13a.html for that much wattage,
and even then you'd need to take a few of
the bulbs out of the circuit.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marcus on July 29, 2005, 02:55:59 PM
Is that too much for the power supply, or
just the switch. I mean, I have one power
supply that I spliced into two. Then each
end has a dimmer switch that controls 22
bulbs each.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: carmine pacifico on July 29, 2005, 04:07:50 PM
Marcus

Standard X10 switch can only handle
500Watts maximum; a typical household
circuit is 15A, maximum continuous power
allowed  is 1200Watts per 15A circuit.
Based on your comment it appears you are
using low voltage halogen lamps with a
transformer , if this is the case you can
not use the WS567 with these lamps,
transformer based lamps require a special
dimmer to work.
I suggest you have your installation
checked by a professional electrician,
before you burn the place down.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Brian H on July 29, 2005, 06:30:28 PM
Marcus; As mantioned. No low voltage;
flourescent lamps or inductive devices
should be used with a dimming type switch or
module. I believe X10 Pro makes a dimmer for
inductive low voltage lamps, but have no
users feedback on how they work.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marcus on July 29, 2005, 10:13:03 PM
I am not using florescent bulbs, I am using
regular light bulbs (i.e. what you would
put in a lamp). The circuit is 20 amps. If
I wire the lights directly to the source, I
have no problems with heat or anything
else. It is only when I add the dimmers
that they heat up. Each dimmer controls 22
lights. I believe I need 2 high power
dimmers.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: murphy on July 29, 2005, 10:58:17 PM
44 lamps at 60W each is also exceeding the
rating of the 20A breaker.
44 x 60W = 2640W
2640W / 117V = 22.6A
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Brian H on July 30, 2005, 07:01:50 AM
There are some 1000 Watt Switches made by
Smarthome and I think Leviton. Your setup
sounds like even 2 1000 Watt units will be
stressed. You aren't poping the breaker?
Lucky you.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marcus on July 30, 2005, 09:31:05 AM
I haven't ever blown the breaker, but what
it soundls like I should do is this: Power
only 22 bulbs from one power source, and
divide that with 2 switches. Bring power
from another circuit for the other two
lamps, and divide that by two dimmer
switches as well. That would mean that each
dimmer switch I used would control 660
watts. I belive I currently have 600w
dimmers. Do you think pushing 60 additional
watts through them is very dangerous? How
does the overall idea sound of bringing
power from another circuit (breaker)?
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marty on August 02, 2005, 09:07:55 AM
Okay... I'll bite.  Just 'cause I'm curious...

What on earth are you lighting up with 44
60-watt bulbs?

Inquiring minds want to know. :o)

Marty
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: roger1818 on August 02, 2005, 02:27:34 PM
I would check with the your local
electrical code.  If I remember correctly
here in Ontario Canada, a 15A circuit can
have a maximum of 8 fixtures attached to it
(I would have to double check that to be
sure though).  Assuming the code allows you
to do simple math to calculate the maximum
number of fixtures for a 20A circuit, you
could only have 11 fixtures per circuit.

As far as putting 660W on a 600W dimmer, I
wouldn't do that.  You might be able to get
away with it if it is a temporary setup and
each switch is in a separate electrical box
(not ganged together).  You would have to
check with the manufacturer, but typically
you have to subtract 100W from the rating
for each additional dimmer that is in the
box (2 in a box, each would be rated at
500W, 4 in one box, each would be rated at
300W).
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marcus on August 02, 2005, 10:52:20 PM
Thanks for all your inputs guys. I'm still
considering how to fix my problem. For those
curious people out there, I have redone my
once angled living room ceiling into a 5
different levels. Each level has an overhang
with indirect lighting coming out (pointing
to the ceiling). I wanted to have it on two
different circuits so that every other light
would light up on one circuit and vice
versa. The idea was so that I could
incorporate multiple colors if I so desired
in the future. It's a very big room, and
with five different levels, it's been tough.
When I get time, I'll post some pics online
so you guys can see the progress.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marty on August 03, 2005, 10:05:26 AM
Marcus,

I would LOVE to see those pics when you get
around to it. :o)

Marty K.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Noam on August 04, 2005, 04:13:31 PM
Maybe those are Canadian Watts? What's the
conversion rate? ;-) (just kidding)
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: roger1818 on August 04, 2005, 04:55:47 PM
Noam:  You mean every country in the world
except the USA which is still stuck in the
dark ages Watts. ;)
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Noam on August 04, 2005, 05:08:40 PM
I still would be afraid to go anywhere near
a single light switch controlling 44 60W
bulbs. That must be one BRIGHT living room.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: marty on August 04, 2005, 05:16:14 PM
LOL!!!  Are sunglasses required... or a
welding mask maybe?  I'm kidding, of
course.  Still want to see some pics.

Marty K.
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: leko2 on August 30, 2007, 01:16:25 PM
I noticed that this topic has cooled down with no responses in a while.  Remember, that as you approach the limit of the breakers the line voltage becomes critical.  A 2300 watt load on a 20 breaker, will be more likely to trip at 115 volts than 120 volts.  Even if the 44,  60 watt lamps don't seem to affect the breaker, a surge such as a lamp burning out, or a motor starting in the same service, can cause the breaker to blow.

TED
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: Walt2 on August 30, 2007, 01:39:04 PM
Maybe those are Canadian Watts? What's the
conversion rate? ;-) (just kidding)

You mean either imperial watts or metric watts  ? ? ?  ;D
Title: Re: HOT LIGHT SWITCHES
Post by: nklght on September 03, 2007, 04:29:41 AM
I cannot believe somebody is actually powering 44- 60 watt bulbs on a single circuit.  That circuits wiring probably needs to be replaced, even though nothing has happened, some insulation breakdown has probably occured.