X10 Community Forum

X10 Zone => Article Discussion => Topic started by: Oldtimer on March 18, 2007, 02:57:04 PM

Title: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: Oldtimer on March 18, 2007, 02:57:04 PM
Follow this URL to read a thought provoking article on what might be a death knell for a lot of X-10 products in the future if the Connecticut Legislature has its way.  Ironically it's in the name of energy efficiency which many of us have used X-10 to accomplish since the beginning.

http://www.sfpasc.com/x10/CTIncBulbBan.pdf

We need to look a lot more closely at integrating CFLs into our X-10 systems than we have so far!
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: JeffVolp on March 18, 2007, 03:23:23 PM
Quote
We need to look a lot more closely at integrating CFLs into our X-10 systems than we have so far!

It is possible for CFLs and X10 to cohabitate.  The problem arises when the high-frequency chopper runs in the X10 band.  That can be dealt with by filters.  I wrote a tutorial on dealing with CFLs:

http://jvde.us/x10/x10_cfls.htm

Jeff
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: Brian H on March 18, 2007, 03:48:57 PM
Jeff; How about the wall dimmers that steal power through the load?
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: JeffVolp on March 18, 2007, 05:18:44 PM
Quote
Jeff; How about the wall dimmers that steal power through the load?

Almost all of our ceiling CFLs are on Leviton 16293 relay switches that include the neutral connection for signal return.  The one CFL on a dimmer uses a Leviton 16383 that also has a neutral connection.
 
As described in the tutorial, I use Leviton 6287 in-line filters between the Leviton X10 switches and all CFL fixtures.  That filter would also block the X10 signal if used with a switch that passes the signal through the load.

There are certainly CFLs out there that do not cause a problem for X10.  While I haven't scoped one yet, the new n:vision CFLs sold by Home Depot work fine on a X10 lamp module just switched on/off.  However, my X10 signals are stronger than in an average house, so that might be a factor.

Jeff
Title: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10 - Maybe
Post by: Dan Lawrence on March 18, 2007, 11:45:04 PM
The Bill is in the Connecticut Legislature, but there's no guarantee it will pass. The standard light bulb lobby will most certainly try to block it. No other state has tried this.

I did check a couple of  the sites listed in Jeff's post and the dimmable CFLs top out at 75 watts of brightness and a steep cost -80 bucks for a six-pack plus shipping. Home Depot in Maryland does not carry them.  In order for dimmable CFL's to be a common item

I have standard CFLs in 5 Socket rockets and they work fine.
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: JeffVolp on March 19, 2007, 12:50:22 AM
The n:vision CFLs sold by Home Depot are not dimmable, but they are cheap:  $8 for a 4-pack of 60W equivalent.  They come in 3 color temperatures from sunlight to warm white, which is close to incandescent light.

We have a few old dimmable Philips Earthlights, which work well with ordinary lamp modules.  We bought them several years ago, and I recall they were pretty expensive.  One finally started to flicker, so I replaced it with one of these new n:vision bulbs.  The color temperature looks about the same.

There are listings on eBay for cheap dimmable compact fluorescents.  I haven't used any of them myself.  Perhaps some people here have, and could report on how well they work.

Virtually all our CFLs are used in simple on/off applications.  Most of our dimmable fixtures use the small decorative flame-shaped bulbs.  I wonder how the legislation will deal with them...

Jeff
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: HA Dave on March 19, 2007, 07:22:22 PM
Quote from: JeffVolp on March 19, 2007, 12:50:22 AM

There are listings on eBay for cheap dimmable compact fluorescents.  I haven't used any of them myself.  Perhaps some people here have, and could report on how well they work.

Virtually all our CFLs are used in simple on/off applications. 

Jeff

I think that between using dimmable CFL's and simply using more lamps, and turning more or fewer on, to create different lighting effects, the problem becomes a non-problem. Sure things are going to change... but change is normal. I just ordered some LED bulbs, and can't wait to try them out.
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: TakeTheActive on March 19, 2007, 09:12:40 PM
Quote from: JeffVolp on March 19, 2007, 12:50:22 AM

...There are listings on eBay for cheap dimmable compact fluorescents.  I haven't used any of them myself.  Perhaps some people here have, and could report on how well they work...

FYI:
Which Brands of CFLs Work Best With X10 and Why?  (Read 4828 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9454.msg56091#msg56091)

Who Manufactures (and Who SELLS?) *DIMMABLE* CFL?  (Read 4077 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9281.msg55138#msg55138)

:)
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: Oldtimer on March 20, 2007, 10:32:12 AM
TTA:

Thanks for the detailed info.   Also I think your new avatar is great!  Nice piece of work.
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: TakeTheActive on March 20, 2007, 12:14:06 PM
Quote from: Oldtimer on March 20, 2007, 10:32:12 AM

Thanks for the detailed info...

I feel that it's a good practice to post references to similar discussions (when you remember them and can find them that is... :-X).

Quote from: Oldtimer on March 20, 2007, 10:32:12 AM

...Also I think your new avatar is great!  Nice piece of work.

It reminded me of the icon with the blinking CRTs in the Systray when the CM11A is communicating with AH. 8)


BTW, did you see these?


from my latest 'Shopping Spree'. ;)

And then, whenever you deviate from the norm, you have to put up with: This is your Mod on drugs, any questions? (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=11885.msg67667#msg67667).  >:(

No volunteering to help - just sarcasm... :(
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: tom j on September 26, 2007, 12:46:21 AM
Quote from: JeffVolp on March 18, 2007, 05:18:44 PM
Quote
Jeff; How about the wall dimmers that steal power through the load?

Almost all of our ceiling CFLs are on Leviton 16293 relay switches that include the neutral connection for signal return.  The one CFL on a dimmer uses a Leviton 16383 that also has a neutral connection.
 
As described in the tutorial, I use Leviton 6287 in-line filters between the Leviton X10 switches and all CFL fixtures.  That filter would also block the X10 signal if used with a switch that passes the signal through the load.

There are certainly CFLs out there that do not cause a problem for X10.  While I haven't scoped one yet, the new n:vision CFLs sold by Home Depot work fine on a X10 lamp module just switched on/off.  However, my X10 signals are stronger than in an average house, so that might be a factor.

Jeff

Thanks what's the name of them N:Vision?? I bought some at Sam's that wouldn't work, well kind of. Once you cut them off they would flicker for about 20 seconds.

Tom j
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: JeffVolp on September 26, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
Quote
Thanks what's the name of them N:Vision?? I bought some at Sam's that wouldn't work, well kind of. Once you cut them off they would flicker for about 20 seconds.

Yes, we got n:vision 60w equivalent SKU 423-599 Model EDXO-14.  They work fine switched ON and OFF with an ordinary X10 lamp module (RCA flavor), turn on at full intensity immediately, and do not flicker when switched off.

These were bought back in the spring.  Since then I have seen reports of flicker when switched off, so they may have changed the design since then.

Jeff
Title: Re: A Legislative Upheaval For X-10
Post by: Oldtimer on September 26, 2007, 07:31:51 PM
Quote from: JeffVolp on September 26, 2007, 05:29:05 PM
Quote
Thanks what's the name of them N:Vision?? I bought some at Sam's that wouldn't work, well kind of. Once you cut them off they would flicker for about 20 seconds.

Yes, we got n:vision 60w equivalent SKU 423-599 Model EDXO-14.  They work fine switched ON and OFF with an ordinary X10 lamp module (RCA flavor), turn on at full intensity immediately, and do not flicker when switched off.

These were bought back in the spring.  Since then I have seen reports of flicker when switched off, so they may have changed the design since then.

Jeff

The N:Vision bulbs I've gotten from Home Depot this suumer do the same thing.  They work fine with appliance and lamp modules, but blink slowly and friefly when turned off with lamp modules and some appliance modules.  I've been putting 22k ohm resistors in the wall plugs to eliminate this.  Very little heat in the resistors.  I'll post pictures, etc., soon about the plugs I used.  Other than that the N:Vision bulbs are great.