X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: daniel toner on September 30, 2005, 02:42:10 AM
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Barrington wrote "there are probably not 2 <BR>computers in the <BR>world with exactly the same hardware, <BR>firmware, software, registry entries, etc <BR>installed. So to "troubleshoot" a problem <BR>is a methodical and logical approach. " <BR> <BR>Now that's just funny as hell. Have you ever <BR>heard of an office network? Dumbass. The only <BR>things different on those computers are the <BR>contents of the cache, if that. Same <BR>motherboard, same memory, same hard drive, <BR>same cd-rom, same video card, same operating <BR>system, same keyboard and mouse, same <BR>monitor, same drivers, same network, same <BR>access, same registry, identical everything. <BR>It's actually quite easy to make compatible <BR>hardware device drivers, some vendors just <BR>don't care enough. As for troubleshooting and <BR>technical support. Any advanced <BR>troubleshooting system can adapt to just one <BR>small detail, the user's operating system. <BR>With that information any troubleshooter can <BR>accurately guide a frustrated user through <BR>steps on resolving most issues. Provided of <BR>course the vendor took the time to encode an <BR>impressively detailed troubleshooting guide. <BR>Shame on you for calling yourself a computer <BR>whiz. You're a complete idiot.
Are all x10 products cheap junk? [1 of 5] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12304.msg41033#msg41033)
Re: Are all x10 products cheap junk? [2 of 5] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12301.msg41659#msg41659)
Re: Are all x10 products cheap junk? [4 of 5] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12305.msg41817#msg41817)
Re: Are all x10 products cheap junk? [5 of 5] (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=12306.msg41962#msg41962)
[TTA Edit: Experiment to determine whether or not SPLITTING 'Highly-Viewed' / 'Highly-Replied' but currently INACTIVE threads from LONG, LONG AGO (I'm starting with ~2 years) into parts will allow current ACTIVE threads to appear in the Top 10 Topics (by Replies) section of the Statistics Center (aka More Stats) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?action=stats) Page.
NOTE: I *WILL* address the <BR> problem...]
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VIC: Apparently the drugs are helping me get
these to work. I never stated they were good
products, obviously you have a reading and
comprehension problem, I stated I was making
them work.
You really have issues, slick.
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What I have to say here is purely commentary
so I apologize to those who are in search of
answers to problems and to those who share
their experience with others to assist them
in making these products work.
I came to this forum to see what peole had
to say about X10 and perhaps some of the
items I purchased but have not yet received.
I was looking for some tips on installing or
potential issues I might encounter.
What I have found in this forum is a group
of guys willing to help others, possibly new
to this hobby (and they make it clear that
it is a hobby and nothing more with this
stuff), and another group of people who
cannot contain their emotions and just let
the bile spew forth. People who's paranoia
leads them by the nose to believe that there
is this concerted conspiracy on the X10
forum against them. It would be comical if
it weren't so sad.
Just felt compelled to add that bit of
socail commentary...Again, sorry to those
who are here for answers and those who are
here to help.
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What I have to say here is purely commentary
so I apologize to those who are in search of
answers to problems and to those who share
their experience with others to assist them
in making these products work.
I came to this forum to see what peole had
to say about X10 and perhaps some of the
items I purchased but have not yet received.
I was looking for some tips on installing or
potential issues I might encounter.
What I have found in this forum is a group
of guys willing to help others, possibly new
to this hobby (and they make it clear that
it is a hobby and nothing more with this
stuff), and another group of people who
cannot contain their emotions and just let
the bile spew forth. People who's paranoia
leads them by the nose to believe that there
is this concerted conspiracy on the X10
forum against them. It would be comical if
it weren't so sad.
Just felt compelled to add that bit of
socail commentary...Again, sorry to those
who are here for answers and those who are
here to help.
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We are not sycophants. None of us has ever
said that X10 provides quality equipment,
support, or service. The forums, when they
are not polluted by whiners, are one of very
few sources of useful technical information
based on practical experience and actual,
non-hyped testcases. We are trying to be
part of the solution.
Ironically, my discussion with ADT is what
led me to X10. The shyster ADT salesman
came by my house offering me a deep discount
on absolute safety and security and some
other hyped up lies. Does the hype sound
similar? I opted out of ADT because I
wanted control over all of the security
equipment whereas ADT offered to install
everything for a big fee and monitor it for
a monthly fee. ADT may be a good choice for
the nontechies that want everything done for
them and are willing to pay for it, but
you're placing an awful lot of trust in
people if you explain all of your valuables
and leave the design, implementation, and
maintenance of security to someone else. If
you're that trusting, why not just get a
nice set of deadbolts and be done with it?
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Actually ADT installs CCD security cameras,
make that QUALITY security cameras as well as
monitors, digital video recorders with DVD
burning abilities. X10 is like peddling a
bicycle, and an ADT security camera setup is
the Cadillac. Yes, Dan, you're right, they do
push **** you don't need or want and they do
push for the monthly fee to monitor your
stuff for you, but that is optional. They
work on commission, so what if they're a
little pushy, you would be to if that's how
you paid your bills. Now you want to protect
your valuables? X10 is a joke, EXTREMELY
unreliable wastes of junk. There is a
difference between "cheap" and "inexpensive."
X10 is cheap, and ADT, while costing more, is
very inexpensive.
For readers deciding on purchasing, or
seeking technical assistance, or just unhappy
and thinking of demanding a refund: X10 is
junk, if you've already wasted your time and
money, demand a refund. Go with a hardwired
ADT system, you can't go wrong. Use X10 ONLY
for what it's best at: turning lights on and
off by remote. Security is an important
issue, leave it to professional grade
equipment and ADT installs it for you.
So you like installing your own? Then buy a
16 channel DVR, 16 CCD cams, WIRED ONLY. Add
anything else you want to add but start
there. You can even find complete kits on
eBay for professional grade equipment.
Wireless cameras only work if they're network
Wifi cams, X10 uses 2.4GHz which blasts trash
all over your house cutting down the quality
of anything else wireless in your home, from
routers, to home phones, to Bluetooth
headsets and PDA's.
X10 is complete junk.
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VT: appreciate the change. I was trying not
to be a dick, but damn. So thank you for the
post.
Daniel: I'm a govt contractor working in the
middle of the Mojave Desert in California.
Not much to choose from. And having
personally used wired systems, that was the
reason I went WIRELESS. I got tired of
running wires.
And yes unfortunately these devices are a
pain in the ass to get going. And you wanted
a slap on the wall, turn it on, and woo hoo
solution. This aint it.
For now it is functional for what I wanted to
use it for. But if the crime rate does go up
out here, which it gradually is, I'll be
forced to climb up in my attic, again, to run
those freakin cables.
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I would go to the trouble of wiring your
cameras if you are truly concerned about
security. Wireless cameras can be jammed
easily, and are not reliable enough to put
your property in their hands. If you like
x10, they do have wired cameras with simple
rca connectors on the end of the 60 foot
cable which can be plugged into a DVR
computer card, or a quad/VCR device. Also,
there are other security companies out
there other than ADT.
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I would go to the trouble of wiring your
cameras if you are truly concerned about
security. Wireless cameras can be jammed
easily, and are not reliable enough to put
your property in their hands. If you like
x10, they do have wired cameras with simple
rca connectors on the end of the 60 foot
cable which can be plugged into a DVR
computer card, or a quad/VCR device. Also,
there are other security companies out
there other than ADT.
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I would go to the trouble of wiring your
cameras if you are truly concerned about
security. Wireless cameras can be jammed
easily, and are not reliable enough to put
your property in their hands. If you like
x10, they do have wired cameras with simple
rca connectors on the end of the 60 foot
cable which can be plugged into a DVR
computer card, or a quad/VCR device. Also,
there are other security companies out
there other than ADT.
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Frowny is right, there are other companies
other than just ADT. People need to do their
research and shop around. There's nothing you
can trust more than forums, so listen to
people that are experienced with the company
you're researching then make an educated
decision. In this case, anyone would be a
fool to buy any X10 products after reading
this forum.
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I appreciate the advice. If someone is
80-100% not willing to compromise on quality,
and require a flawless security option,these
products are not for them, and should invest
the time and money, after doing the research,
on something else. I agree.
If you want to piss away your money on a toy,
and are not relying on these devices to
protect life and limb, then these devices are
for you.
For those who have not giving up on their
purchase:
In my dicking around to get these cameras to
work worth a damn, I ran across this FREE app.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/dorgem
Ran it over my VA11A, tested with my low
light camera, with light in the room on
(since it looks like **** in low light) and
picture looks pretty good and clear.
I'm still working on getting everything to
work in Linux. Since I'm not in the mood to
get in a pissing contest between open source
and other OS's I'll leave it at that.
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JM: Would you mind telling me which
radioshack system you have?
I'm totally new and clueless to all of this.
What I'm needing is a wireless outdoor
camera that will work in almost complete
darkness. There is no access to electricity
where this will be installed, so I need
something that can run on batteries. A
friend has a regular x10 system that she's
happy with, so I thought I'd check and see
if they had a no-light camera, which they
don't. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks!
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Radio shack camera system - Copy and paste
into browser window
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=49-2534
This is not an outdoor camera.
I did a google search and found this.
http://www.pimall.com/nais/monitorsys.outdoor.html
Similiar to my radio shack model.
Notice the infrared leds around the lens. A
feature that X10 cameras lack.
Unfortunately for your needs, I have not come
across both wireless and battery powered.
I did find this. A portable electric battery
pack. Interesting. Actually a good concept.
http://www.dulley.com/docs/f400.htm
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Radio shack camera system - Copy and paste
into browser window
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=49-2534
This is not an outdoor camera.
I did a google search and found this.
http://www.pimall.com/nais/monitorsys.outdoor.html
Similiar to my radio shack model.
Notice the infrared leds around the lens. A
feature that X10 cameras lack.
Unfortunately for your needs, I have not come
across both wireless and battery powered.
I did find this. A portable electric battery
pack. Interesting. Actually a good concept.
http://www.dulley.com/docs/f400.htm
-
Radio shack camera system - Copy and paste
into browser window
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&product%5Fid=49-2534
This is not an outdoor camera.
I did a google search and found this.
http://www.pimall.com/nais/monitorsys.outdoor.html
Similiar to my radio shack model.
Notice the infrared leds around the lens. A
feature that X10 cameras lack.
Unfortunately for your needs, I have not come
across both wireless and battery powered.
I did find this. A portable electric battery
pack. Interesting. Actually a good concept.
http://www.dulley.com/docs/f400.htm
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Thanks so much for the helpful info, JM!
That power pack looks like it would be great
to have around for emergency use.
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I personally have been involved with X10
almost since it came on the market. I have
learned that it is important to
understand how the product works or, more
important to know what makes it fail
before I pass it on. I have used X10 in
applications that include Nightclubs
(jimmiestewart.com, select the link to
X10), Restaurants, Catering Halls, major
corporation Boardrooms, Churches, Funeral
Homes, etc. I even used X10 when I was
retained to coordinate the appearance of
President of the United States
(jimmiestewart.com, select the link to
GHW Bush). There are wrinkles with a lot
of the X10 products. Learning what they
are and how to get around them has made
me a lot of money over the years. I must
admit that I lost 2 modules within a 6
month period. I would have complained
except for the fact that they were 18+
years old. I still have modules that date
back to the early 80's and they are still
working well. There are a lot of
applications for X10 products that
sometimes surprise even the people at X10.
An example would be the 600 watt dimmer.
How many know how to make the dimmer work
in a 1900 watt system?
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That's just it, we shouldn't have to baby
this touchy junk all because it's way too
cheap and way too buggy. Sure, if you learn
the product you can make it work better but
there is a problem with that. After learning
the product and all of it's problems, who in
their right mind wouldn't just say "to hell
with this junk, I'm buying quality equipment."
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Apparently you didn't get the message from
the list of applications that I selected
X10 for. You do not use "junk" in those
applications. There are standard modules
and there are the "PRO" series modules. Or
you could select the "Crestron" system or
the "AMX" system. For those systems you
will need about a $10,000 budjet. And you
may not believe it but they have their
wrinkles too. I have made a lot of money
figuring what makes them fail also. In the
days before I retired that's what I did for
a living. In your case I suggest that you
vent your frustration, at me if it helps
and then walk away from PLC systems all
together. The ulcers that you will develop
should you encounter wrinkles in the
systems aren't worth
it,...............above all keep smiling.
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Apparently you didn't get the message from
the list of applications that I selected
X10 for. You do not use "junk" in those
applications. There are standard modules
and there are the "PRO" series modules. Or
you could select the "Crestron" system or
the "AMX" system. For those systems you
will need about a $10,000 budjet. And you
may not believe it but they have their
wrinkles too. I have made a lot of money
figuring what makes them fail also. In the
days before I retired that's what I did for
a living. In your case I suggest that you
vent your frustration, at me if it helps
and then walk away from PLC systems all
together. The ulcers that you will develop
should you encounter wrinkles in the
systems aren't worth
it,...............above all keep smiling.
-
Apparently you didn't get the message from
the list of applications that I selected
X10 for. You do not use "junk" in those
applications. There are standard modules
and there are the "PRO" series modules. Or
you could select the "Crestron" system or
the "AMX" system. For those systems you
will need about a $10,000 budjet. And you
may not believe it but they have their
wrinkles too. I have made a lot of money
figuring what makes them fail also. In the
days before I retired that's what I did for
a living. In your case I suggest that you
vent your frustration, at me if it helps
and then walk away from PLC systems all
together. The ulcers that you will develop
should you encounter wrinkles in the
systems aren't worth
it,...............above all keep smiling.
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Yes yes we all got it, you use X10 junk for
all the wrong applications. It's clear
quality and performance mean nothing to you.
This is why you're a huge X10 fan, you're the
only kind of person that could be an X10 fan.
Thing is, most of us, we like quality, we
like reliability, and we love performance.
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Jimmie, thank you for sounding off.
Interesting web site. Need a little work on
font color, but very interesting stuff.
With your ET background you do have an
advantage with the products. Just like my DP
(that's Data Processing, not Double
Penetration for some people) background helps
with the software.
But Daniel in his instability does have a
point. With all of X10's propaganda and hype,
when you buy the stuff it should be expected
to work without an abundance of troubleshooting.
As long as they have been around, instead of
pushing their products in mass production
mode, if someone took the time to document or
publish some honest to god scenarios and
troubleshooting procedures, the unhappiness
with the product would not exist.
And perhaps backing off on the misleading
advertising might help also.
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Thank you. Instead of X10 doing what you
suggested, when you have to call, their
support SUCKS! When I said the wireless
cameras had a terrible signal, they asked "Do
you have a wireless router?" Well yes, I have
a laptop, and I like millions of others have
based my home network on Wireless G
technology. Know what they said? "Oh you'll
have to turn it off, you can't use it with
X10 items." Screw that! To top it off, they
told me I can't use my phone if I want a
decent signal. Oh okay so it seems it works
as long as NOTHING ELSE IS POWERED ON
ANYWHERE IN OR AROUND MY HOUSE! X10 should
have properly notified me about this. Of
course even if they did, what am I going to
do, turn off everything wireless in my home
and ask my neighbors to do the same? Actually
instead of that, I would have said screw X10
right there and they wouldn't have received a
single dime from me. This must be why they
don't properly notify anyone that their
equipment is JUNK!
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Daniel, sorry for your frustration but if
you think the to road to home automation
has been smooth you are very mistaken. My
homes have been automated since the 60's
there was no X10 in those days or anything
like it. If you read my home automation
story at my site what it doesn't tell you
that there was approximately 13,000 feet of
telephone wire behind the sceenes operating
150+ interlocking relays to make it all
work. How much wire does it take to use
X10? Since the early eighties X10 has come
a long ways, but, it still has a long way
to go.
In my case I attempt to pass on the answers
to problems that I find. This is not
something that X10 or most major
corpoations will admit for obvious reasons.
But if changes are made and the product
gets better for the consumer, fine.
X10's greatest asset in my mind is home
security, a functioning home is rarely
broken into. Both my homes are controlled
by X10. In all the years that I have been
using X10 I have not had a problem, (knock
on wood).
JMurphy, I'm glad you enjoyed my site. I
continually update it but not as often that
I would like to. I am working on a story at
the present time that tells how something
that possibly could have been a career
damaging experience was turned into a
career enhancing move. The next story/s
that I plan to write will involve X10. I
think that anyone who reads
them ,especially X10 users will chuckle a
little. Unfortunately it will be a while
before they are done. Oh, I will check out
the fonts.