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📸Cameras & Camera Software => Camera General Discussion => Topic started by: michlea on May 26, 2007, 07:47:43 PM

Title: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 26, 2007, 07:47:43 PM
??? ??? ???

Question One:

I've been trying to get my VCR commander II set up on & off for 3 weeks now and really need help.  The motion sensors are triggering the appropriate cameras.  The VCR wouldn't record no matter where I put the IR sensors.  Finally I got the VCR to record when camera shut off. I figured I didn't have the STOP command programmed correctly.  I read some blogs and read the VCR Commander Quick Setup guide.  I tried to clear everything out of the commander but found mine doesn't respond like the "guides" say...  When I press and hold the POWER button, the light never becomes solid.  It beeps a couple of times, then it beeps about 10 times, light goes out, then on, then out and continues to beep another 10 times. It will keep doing the beeping cycle over & over but the light never goes solid. 

Do I have a faulty unit?
How Do I clear the codes to start over?

 ??? ??? ???

Second Question:  I tried to program the IR codes from the motion sensor into the commander but don't get the response as indicated in the set up guides.  I hold the PLAY button down until it goes solid.  I press the HOUSE/ON button on the sensor and the light remains solid. 

Does the motion sensor have to be pointed at the infra red sensor at the back of the commander?  (I have simply positioned the sensor on the side of the VCR)

Why doesn't my light go out or why can't I seem to program the motion sensor codes into the commander?


 ??? ??? ???

Question Three:

After you've programmed everything into the commander successfully, do you have to keep the remote pointed at the back of the commander into the infra-red sensor?

Thanks for your anticipated help! 
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 26, 2007, 08:41:06 PM
The VCR Commander (and II) aren't intuitive in their set up. Actually, they can be a bit difficult and even frustrating.

However, if you read (and re-read) the directions carefully .... and follow the directions exactly... it WILL work.

My favorite tips: Are to be sure you try the teaching remote at varying distances, that it has fresh batteries, and that the room is dimly lit. A search here at the forum will provide you with more tips. But the directions that came with you unit does provide all the info you might need.



After you've programmed everything into the commander successfully, do you have to keep the remote pointed at the back of the commander into the infra-red sensor?


No.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on May 26, 2007, 09:42:17 PM
michlea,

This page at the X10 Knowlege Base WIKI covers resetting and then learning codes:
X10 Knowlege Base WIKI: Setting Up and Learning with VCR Commander (http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Setting_Up_and_Learning_with_VCR_Commander)

Things to understand:
1.  The motion sensors communicate to the VCR Commander with an RF (radio) signal, not an IR (infra-red light) signal, so
     they only have to be near enough to the VCR Commander for it to pick up the RF signal (even works through walls, etc.).
2.  Once in the "Learn a motion sensor" mode, the VCR Commander will learn the first X10 RF signal it hears, so all other
     X10 RF devices (Palm-pad controllers, keychain remotes and other Motion Sensors) must be kept silent !
3.  As with any X10 setup involving motion sensors, you must skip a unit-code between motion sensors because each
     one uses the unit-code you set to say; "I saw motion" and the next unit-code up to say; "It got dark out".  So, if the
     first motion detector is set to "A1", the second should be set to "A3"!
4.  The battery powered X10 motion sensors "forget" their address when the batteries get too low or are removed (like
     you have to do to get at the screw hole to mount them to the wall)!
5.  I am less certain of this one, but I think that X10 "security" motion sensors may not be compatible with the
     VCR Commander.  (Hopefully someone else can chime-in on this one!)

I hope this helps at least somewhat.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 26, 2007, 09:50:52 PM
 :o  I don't remember reading the unit code directions telling me to skip a unit code between sensors....I will try that.

So do you mean the first one is set at D1
The second at D3
and the third at D5? 
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on May 26, 2007, 10:09:42 PM
:o  I don't remember reading the unit code directions telling me to skip a unit code between sensors....I will try that.

So do you mean the first one is set at D1
The second at D3
and the third at D5? 

Yes.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 26, 2007, 10:43:57 PM
Do you have any idea why I cant get the commander light to go solid when I press and hold the POWER button?
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on May 26, 2007, 11:25:31 PM
Do you have any idea why I cant get the commander light to go solid when I press and hold the POWER button?


Do you mean to "clear the learned IR codes" ?
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 26, 2007, 11:53:34 PM
Yes, I do mean to clear the RF codes completely from the commander....  The instructions say to push the POWER button until the light goes solid.  Mine doesn't go to a solid light...It beeps a couple of times slowly, then beeps about 10 times more...Am I clearing out all the old codes when this happens?


Update: With all the tips I've received so far...I get the VCR to start recording with the motion sensor (It takes longer for the camera to turn on then for the VCR to start recording) 

BUT....It doesnt stop recording after 5 minutes, even when I completely cover the motion sensor...
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on May 27, 2007, 12:21:28 AM
Yes, I do mean to clear the RF codes completely from the commander....  The instructions say to push the POWER button until the light goes solid.  Mine doesn't go to a solid light...It beeps a couple of times slowly, then beeps about 10 times more...Am I clearing out all the old codes when this happens?


Update: With all the tips I've received so far...I get the VCR to start recording with the motion sensor (It takes longer for the camera to turn on then for the VCR to start recording) 

BUT....It doesnt stop recording after 5 minutes, even when I completely cover the motion sensor...

Pressing and holding the "Power" button clears the learned IR remote codes... I.E. those learned from your VCR remote.

To clear the X10 motion detector codes you must press and hold the "Play" button.

As far as the not stopping recording problem, that is probably because the motion sensor isn't sending the "OFF" command when you expect it to.

What model motion detector are you using?
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 27, 2007, 10:20:58 AM
I am using the EagleEye Outdoor Motion sensors - model MS14A

I've since discovered that afterI manually stop the VCR from recording, that it doesn't trigger to record when motion is detected thereafter.....

This is very frustrating and thank you so much for trying to help me...
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 27, 2007, 10:38:57 AM

The VCR Commander (and II) aren't intuitive in their set up. Actually, they can be a bit difficult and even frustrating.

However....... it WILL work.


Don't give up..... your not alone. Your system will work.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 27, 2007, 11:26:48 AM
:-[ Thanks, Dave....I sure hope so

I did catch my neighbor in the act, on tape!!!  He got a citation!!!  Yeah!!!

But...I had to turn the VCR on manually.  Last night, someone messed with the front camera.  I wish the system had been working!  lol

Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 27, 2007, 02:01:45 PM
:-[ Thanks, Dave....I sure hope so

I did catch my neighbor in the act, on tape!!!  He got a citation!!!  Yeah!!!


AWESOME!
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: steven r on May 27, 2007, 02:12:48 PM
...I did catch my neighbor in the act, on tape!!!  He got a citation!!!  Yeah!!! ...
Three cheers for X10 and your police department! Here's hoping for better relations with your neighbor.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: Tuicemen on May 27, 2007, 04:24:06 PM
michlea:  
I too had problems programing the VCR commander. :-[
I had to follow the order of things with the instructions that came with the unit but I also had to follow the more detailed info supplied in the link that Bill supplied.
Also when reprogramming the unit I found it best to clear both the IR commands and the RF commands learned and start from scratch.  It seems just clearing and reprogramming one messes with the other. ::)
Also I found it better(and easier) to program with a palm pad or other x10 transmiter other than a motion sensor! ;)

-Bill- (of BXVC):
Your right the security motion sensors don't work with this! ;)
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 27, 2007, 06:11:31 PM
I dont have a palm pad.  I do have the remote that turns the cameras on & off.... I have the 8 unit ScanCam Remote, Model CR12A.   Can I do it with that and if so, how?

When you and Bill say the motion sensors I have are not compatible does that mean my VCR will never start recording when these sensors sensibly sense motion???   lol

Non of it makes any sense to me.... :D
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: Tuicemen on May 27, 2007, 06:24:46 PM
The MS14A is compatible it is the MS10A that isn't.
A ScanCam Remote should work as well to program if the cam address is the same as the motion sensor! ;)
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 27, 2007, 08:13:32 PM
Do I just follow the directions up until I get to the programming in of the motion sensors, then turn the camera on with the remote instead of the motion sensor??????

I dont know what I'd do without all you guys helping me...This neighbor has shot at me through my front window with a pellet gun, busted 4 flood lights and cut the freon tube from my central air conditioner.  I just caught him calling me really ugly names on tape, but I need to protect myself further from this idiot.  I'll be so glad to get this working properly! :D ;D :D :-*
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: Tuicemen on May 27, 2007, 09:57:17 PM
Do I just follow the directions up until I get to the programming in of the motion sensors, then turn the camera on with the remote instead of the motion sensor??????

yes! set the RF code with the remote ;)
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 12:11:44 AM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Guess What........It's Working!!!!!!!!!
[/size][/color]


:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

MANY MANY THANKS TO ALL WHO HELPED!
[/size][/color]

Okay...I wanted to take the time to point out all the parts of advice I received that eventually helped me. Please look back on the past discussions to see who advised me so they may get credit for their mighty brain power!!!!  I've also included some of my own observation/experience.


  I hope this compilation will help someone else who is struggling.  DAVE is correct!  YOUR SYSTEM WILL WORK! READ, READ AGAIN, READ READ AGAIN.   But the biggest lesson I learned from this is you are dealing with radio waves and signals that can be interfered with by surrounding electronics and other things that can interupt those signals. If it doesn't work the first time, keep trying.  I advise you to try at different times of the day/night.  One time of day may be more successful for you then another.  The bottom line is the directions are there to guide you through but they can't make all the "conditions" the best for programming at the time you are trying to do it. Couple that with confusion about the directions, and you could have a frustrating battle ahead but it's a battle you can win.

Keep in mind, some of the advice and opinions I've given may not have any scientific back up to support them.  I'm just telling you what worked for me!  lol   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

.


Now, what didn't work was setting the unit codes D1, D3, D5......  My camera's are set to D1, D2, D3.  When I changed the unit codes to 1, 3, & 5 the wrong cameras were triggered by 3 & 5.  I need to clarify this with the member who advised me....I may still have something set incorrectly.


Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 12:15:07 AM
Now...I'm ready to mount the motion sensors outdoors.  How do I do this without disrupting the codes when I remove the batteries to get to the mounting screw holes?

??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 28, 2007, 01:00:34 AM
I like to attach self-sticking velcro to the back of my motion sensors. Then I do the same (or staple on) the "other side" of the velcro to where I want to stick the sensor. This method makes replacing batteries easy also.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 10:50:48 AM
Thanks Dave!!!  That sounds like a winning idea!  And I won't have to put holes in my new siding!

I don't know what I'd do without you guys! 
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 28, 2007, 11:29:31 AM

I don't know what I'd do without you guys! 


This thread, YOU started will be read over and over (and over) again by forum visitors with a similar set up (and problems) as yourself. Your stickwithitness (that IS a word ...right?) and reporting back with your progress will help many future visitors. Please except my thanks to YOU on their behalf.


Buy the way..... the batteries last a L O N G time. But I have a twice-a-year battery check I do with flashlights, smoke alarms, and motion sensors. Very time the time changes (daylight savings/spring-fall) I check my batteries.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 12:13:48 PM
another very good idea.  I will change my batteries every daylight savings days!  Thanks again Dave!!

Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: -Bill- (of wgjohns.com) on May 28, 2007, 03:33:33 PM
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Guess What........It's Working!!!!!!!!!
[/size][/color]


:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

MANY MANY THANKS TO ALL WHO HELPED!
[/size][/color]

Good to hear!   ;D


Now, what didn't work was setting the unit codes D1, D3, D5......  My camera's are set to D1, D2, D3.  When I changed the unit codes to 1, 3, & 5 the wrong cameras were triggered by 3 & 5.  I need to clarify this with the member who advised me....I may still have something set incorrectly.

Quite correct!  I did neglect to mention that you would have to change the camera's X10 Addresses to match the "new" motion sensor X10 Addresses!  Oops!   :o

Had you changed the camera addresses also, the correct camera would have switched with the correct motion detector.  Well... mostly.   ;)

Now that I know you have more that two cameras, I am pretty sure that had you done that, you would have run into a different problem.  As I understand it, the cameras work in "groups of four" i.e. D1-D4... D5-D8... etc.  So when say D2 ON is received, the camera Addressed as D2 will turn on and the cameras addressed as D1, D3 and D4 will turn themselves off.  Had you skipped a code as I suggested, that would have placed the first two cameras (D1 & D3) in the first "group of four" and the third (D5) in the second "group of four".  This would mean that D1 & D3 would "play nice" with each other, but D5 would not.   :(

The original reason for my suggestion stands however.  The motion detector's "dusk / dawn" light sensor sending a signal on the next unit code up may cause the system to "think" it got a motion trigger from the next higher numbered motion detector!  So, when it gets light enough or dark enough out (or car lights, etc. shine on the detector) you may notice it suddenly start recording from the next camera up!

Hope that clarifies things somewhat.   ???   :D
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help! A NEW PROBLEM
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 11:00:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the unit code numbers. I did eventually figure it out it wouldn't work because of the 4 camera grouping thing...

Now I have a new problem!!!!!
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help! A NEW PROBLEM
Post by: michlea on May 28, 2007, 11:04:45 PM
Thanks for the clarification on the unit code numbers. I did eventually figure it out it wouldn't work because of the 4 camera grouping thing...

Now I have a new problem!!!!!

Today, I mounted the motion sensors outdoors using Dave's suggestion of velcro.  They don't work while they are outdoors!!!!  I bring them back in & they work correctly.  What's going on now????

 :P :P  I'd be crazy by now without you guys!   HELP!!!   AGAIN!!!!   PLEASE!!!!! :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help! A NEW PROBLEM
Post by: HA Dave on May 29, 2007, 06:45:04 PM

Today, I mounted the motion sensors outdoors using Dave's suggestion of velcro.  They don't work while they are outdoors!!!!  I bring them back in & they work correctly.  What's going on now????


If you have metal siding that can drown-out the motion sensor's RF signal. Generally a "spacer" between the sensor and the siding will resolve that. Your already using a spacer... with the velcro.. so that is not likely your problem.

The motion sensor sends a RF signal that needs to be received by BOTH your "transceiver" (to turn ON the camera) and by your "VCR Commander" (to tell the VCR to record). Which one ....or both... is NOT working.

If it's the "transceiver" not turning the camera ON, then see if you can't get the transceiver to a better location. If it's the "VCR Commander" not receiving the signal, see if you can't find a better location for it.

Better locations may mean just closer to the sensor/sensors. Or better may mean up higher, or just closer to a window, or further away from a signal generator (i.e. AC unit, TV, computer, fan).
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 29, 2007, 07:04:18 PM
Hi Dave,  Thanks so much for hanging in there with me through this.  I have wood siding and just last year covered it with new vinyl siding, so no metal there.  But, I dont know how much metal there is in the frame, floor or roof of the home....

I just noticed today that the vcr commander does seem to be kicking in from time to time...  but they're not turning on the cameras...I have to figure out which motion sensor is triggering the vcr and if it's consistant or not. I suppose it would be best to take 2 of the sensors down and cover them.  It will be easier to work with one at a time until all 3 are working.

I started a new thread on this topic and on that thread, It was suggested I had the sensor in the front of the house too close to glass.  I'm going to move that one to a different location just to see if that's the cause of the front one not working...

The problem with moving the transceiver is I just dont have many wall outlets.  Most of them have power strips on them, but I still think it's good idea to try to move it.

I'll let you know what happens.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: HA Dave on May 29, 2007, 07:23:16 PM
For all we know..... all three sensors are turning on the VCR Commander.

Lets try finding a better location for the transceiver. Don't put it on a power strip, and try to advoid a plug that also has a power strip.
Title: Re: Vcr commanderII Headache...help!
Post by: michlea on May 29, 2007, 07:39:37 PM
I will move the transceiver....I'll keep you posted either here or on the other thread I started on this topic.  I want all x10'ers to be able to read the results on the appropriate topic.  I should have started that one sooner but didn't think of it....Thank you for sticking with me!