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🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Troubleshooting Automation Problems => Topic started by: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 07:36:22 PM

Title: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 07:36:22 PM
I need a little help.

When I built my new home I specified three sets of flood lights. One set on both sides and the last set at the back of the home. Unfortunately, the builder wired all of the sets together on a single switch.

If I want to control these flood lights individually, what is the best solution? Will I need to purchase three of these http://www.smarthome.com/4080xt.html or is their a better solution?

Thanks,
Kelly
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: JeffVolp on June 03, 2007, 08:32:52 PM
That is what we use here - controlled by a single Leviton 16400 4-button wall-mounted controller.  In our case they are pigtailed off various circuits with no in-line switches at all.

FYI, you can pick them up from legitimate dealers on eBay for an excellent price.  Just be careful to include the shipping charge when you compare prices.

Jeff
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 03, 2007, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 07:36:22 PM

...When I built my new home I specified three sets of flood lights. One set on both sides and the last set at the back of the home. Unfortunately, the builder wired all of the sets together on a single switch.

If I want to control these flood lights individually, what is the best solution? Will I need to purchase three of these http://www.smarthome.com/4080xt.html or is their a better solution?

Welcome to the forums Kelly!

It's a "piece-of-cake" to correct. Personally, I find that although Smarthome has a 'nice catalog' and carries MANY items, they are WAY OVERPRICED! As a ~30 year X10 user, you CAN'T BEAT the X10 SALES. Get yourself some PR511s.

Also, I have, IMHO, a 'nifty' (ain't that an old word!) way to mimic the 'smarter Leviton Floods with PR511s and a CM11A or CM15A. Unfortunately, I just did an ADVANCED SEARCH and discovered that I haven't CONSOLIDATED the idea into one post yet :-[ , but if you also do an ADVANCED SEARCH on Keyword: PR511 UserID: TakeTheActive, you'll find them.

Briefly, you 'custom' wire the PR511s with an additional WS12A on each (ignoring the internal relay / blue wire in the PR511) and then MOTION on ANY ONE triggers *ALL* the others.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 08:44:34 PM
What's the difference between the PHS01 and the PR511's? I like the idea of a computer interface, but I need a CM that'll work with a Mac.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 03, 2007, 08:59:19 PM
Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 08:44:34 PM

What's the difference between the PHS01 and the PR511's?

I don't have many part numbers memorized. Did you do a SEARCH? Maybe the same item, X10 Pro # (longer warranty) vs X10 #...

Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 08:44:34 PM

...I like the idea of a computer interface, but I need a CM that'll work with a Mac.

Keywords: CM11A, HeYu, Charles Sullivan ;)

Also, talk to Duck69 - MAC EXPERT!!

My idea mimics the functionality of the Leviton X10 Motion Detector 6417 (http://www.smarthome.com/4082.html#) (for MUCH LESS $$$!) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 09:08:09 PM
I just read your Advice to X-10 Newbies post and it seems like you like the Leviton brand much better than the X10 brand. If Leviton is truly better built, shouldn't I consider this? http://www.smarthome.com/4082.html
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on June 03, 2007, 09:14:16 PM
Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 09:08:09 PM

If Leviton is truly better built, shouldn't I consider this? http://www.smarthome.com/4082.html


Looks like X10's floodlight to me!
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 03, 2007, 09:31:22 PM
Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 09:08:09 PM

I just read your Advice to X-10 Newbies post...

Oh my goodness! SOMEBODY ACTUALLY READ IT?!? :o

Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 09:08:09 PM

...and it seems like you like the Leviton brand much better than the X10 brand. If Leviton is truly better built, shouldn't I consider this?

I just "attempted" to view the X10.Com website to lookup any CURRENT *DEAL* on the PR511, but...

I've had Firefox open for several days (11:45:00 CPU TIME) and it's now EATING 450,xxx K of RAM on my 512MB P3 933 and PAGING like a Bandit - adding TWO TABS for X10 DEALS just about killed it (TONs of pauses, mouse freezes), so, I'll have to re-boot and come back. But (again a but...) just like NEVER is difficult to qualify, my PR511s have been in service for YEARS. [PAUSES / FREEZES are getting worse...] One Leviton vs 2 PR511s for the same price is also something to consider. I'll be back shortly... :P
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: JeffVolp on June 04, 2007, 12:27:27 AM
Quote
it seems like you like the Leviton brand much better than the X10 brand. If Leviton is truly better built, shouldn't I consider this?

Regarding Leviton vrs X10 floodlights, physically they are very similar except for color.  Leviton is brown; X10 gray.  The X10 floodlight has the ability to control up to 4 sequential addresses ABOVE its own unit code.  The Leviton adds the ability to control other floodlights set to the SAME unit code.  So if motion triggers one, they will all switch on.  The X10 floodlight can also have the dusk sensor trigger up to 4 sequential addresses, but the Leviton does not include that feature.  The Leviton manual I have doesn't say anything about their Intellisense (R), which is what they call the AGC used in their better X10 modules.  Other than color, and the operational differences, they are basically two versions of the same unit.

Jeff
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: kcrossley on June 04, 2007, 06:12:44 AM
Quote from: JeffVolp on June 04, 2007, 12:27:27 AM
Quote
it seems like you like the Leviton brand much better than the X10 brand. If Leviton is truly better built, shouldn't I consider this?

The X10 floodlight has the ability to control up to 4 sequential addresses ABOVE its own unit code.  The Leviton adds the ability to control other floodlights set to the SAME unit code.

So if I had each floodlight on it's own unit code, they should be able to trigger each other if needed, right?
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: JeffVolp on June 04, 2007, 09:17:28 AM
Quote
So if I had each floodlight on it's own unit code, they should be able to trigger each other if needed, right?

No, it doesn't work that way.  The X10 floodlights will only control the 4 next unit codes HIGHER than their own (with fold over after P).  So the lower coded floodlight can certainly control a higher one.  However, that higher floodlight cannot also control the lower coded one.  The Leviton version also sends out a command on the SAME unit code.  Unless you use a macro, that is the only way motion detected by any floodlight will trigger all of them.

Here they are on different addresses, and the Ocelot decides what to do.

FYI, these floodlights do have a quirk that lightning can trigger their motion detect cycle.  Often during summer storms they will come on in response to lightning.  I don't know whether this is a phenomenon unique to the X10 floodlights, or whether other motion detector floodlights exhibit a similar problem.

Jeff
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: kcrossley on June 04, 2007, 09:20:37 AM
Quote from: JeffVolp on June 04, 2007, 09:17:28 AM
No, it doesn't work that way.  The X10 floodlights will only control the 4 next unit codes HIGHER than their own (with fold over after P).  So the lower coded floodlight can certainly control a higher one.  However, that higher floodlight cannot also control the lower coded one.
Is this always the case with these devices? So, theoretically, I can setup the X10 floodlights to trigger one another with a macro? Where can I find out more info about macros?

Thanks,
Kelly
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: JeffVolp on June 04, 2007, 10:32:50 AM
Quote
Where can I find out more info about macros?

A macro is a series of commands triggered by another command.  For example:  D4 ON -> F4 ON, F7 ON, G13 OFF.

Some allow conditionals, such as:  If F2 is OFF and D4 turns ON, then do something...

How it is programmed depends on your controller.  Your manual or help file should get you started.  If you use a CM11A or CM15A, then a search here should turn up a bunch of info.

Jeff
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: dave w on June 04, 2007, 11:47:10 AM
Quote from: kcrossley on June 03, 2007, 08:44:34 PM
What's the difference between the PHS01 and the PR511's? I like the idea of a computer interface, but I need a CM that'll work with a Mac.

Then you will need a CM11 and a Mac program like "Xtension" from Sand Hill Engineering. The newer CM15 is USB, but I don't think there is Mac software for it yet.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on June 04, 2007, 06:01:50 PM
My X10 floodlight is the "heart" of my perimeter alarm system!

I use the +1-4 codes to turn on a Camera, interior light, and chime... as well as trigger a macro in my AHP. The macro, triggers the VCR commander (the VCR commander requires a RF signal, and the floodlight only sends PPL), and then switches (or scans) through my cameras (hopefully increasing my changes of catching something on tape).

Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 04, 2007, 07:16:05 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on June 04, 2007, 06:01:50 PM

My X10 floodlight is the "heart" of my perimeter alarm system!


Quote from: Dave_x10_L on June 04, 2007, 06:01:50 PM

...I use the +1-4 codes to turn on a Camera, interior light, and chime... as well as trigger a macro in my AHP...

I started out that way, with PR511 #1, but it quickly became too cumbersome (especially during the winter! :P) when I had a "new idea". (http://www.x10community.com/forums/Themes/x10theme1/images/post/lamp.gif)

So, now I only use +4 and +5 and treat the PR511 as an AC-Powered MSxx - Motion Detection on +4 and Dawn/Dusk on +5 (saved me TONs of memory on the CM11A! 8).

To get around the PR511 can only control another PR511 with a HIGHER UnitCode restriction, I abandoned using the internal relay in the PR511 (the blue wire, IIRC), and wire the floodlamps to a separate module (say a WS12A wall switch, for a example), which is also on a DIFFERENT HouseCode from the PR511, which is on my "Motion Sensor"-dedicated HouseCode (see my FAQ for more details about HouseCode utilization).

"Someday", when I find that elusive _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/RoundTuit.Jpg),
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I'll write up a 'proper' article on it...
;)
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on June 04, 2007, 09:15:07 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on June 04, 2007, 07:16:05 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on June 04, 2007, 06:01:50 PM

My X10 floodlight is the "heart" of my perimeter alarm system!

"Intruder Alert - Driveway Floods Sensed Motion"


TTA your correct! I did fail to mention, that I do ALSO run BXVC (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9918.0). And YES I do have a Voice announcement when Motion is detected!

Although.... even being a real trek fan... I avoided the "intruder alert" and instead the voice announcements begin with "activity has been detected"........

Maybe I should have also mentioned that if a TV is ON, the camera(s) view automatically displays (replace whatever was on the TV) with the camera view.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: dave w on June 05, 2007, 01:12:59 PM
At full volume outside the house, upon motion detection, and using wireless speakers being steered by power supplies plugged into appliance modules, the "security system" booms:

"THIS IS THE VOICE OF HOME CONTROL...I HAVE DETECTED MOVEMENT AT THE FRONT (side, back, etc) OF THE HOUSE....I WILL MONITOR".

A compilation of lines from "Colussus: The Forbin Project" (1970) and "The Forbidden Planet" (1956) two kewl sci-fi movies.


Gosh this stuff is fun.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 29, 2007, 01:06:23 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on June 04, 2007, 09:15:07 PM

...Maybe I should have also mentioned that if a TV is ON, the camera(s) view automatically displays (replace whatever was on the TV) with the camera view.

Would you please go into more detail as to HOW this is accomplished?
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on June 29, 2007, 06:36:21 PM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on June 29, 2007, 01:06:23 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on June 04, 2007, 09:15:07 PM

...Maybe I should have also mentioned that if a TV is ON, the camera(s) view automatically displays (replace whatever was on the TV) with the camera view.

Would you please go into more detail as to HOW this is accomplished?

OK... I've posted parts of this all over the forum... this is as good of a place as any to put it all in print.

The main reason I wanted any cameras was to be able to see my driveway. The configuration of my home, driveway, and landscaping makes seeing my driveway difficult. I thought a cam watching the driveway would allow me to "keep an eye out" for service people... even from my basement office.

Well, my way of thinking.... if one camera is good.. two (or six) would be even better.

I started planning locations, and collecting cameras (some X10 some not). Planning (and then re-adjusting the plan) is crucial to a good camera setup. I decided I wanted to be able to see the camera images from ether my basement office (TV), or from the TV in the living room. I also wanted to be able to tape (I have extra left-over VCRs) any activity in the less-public backyard area.

Four of my cameras are hardwired. Since I knew where I wanted the cameras, and I knew my structural barriers (deck, patio, driveway) I was pretty much "pinned in" as to where I would bury cable, and to where it would enter the house, in the basement. The restrictions presented problems, and I tried several different configurations, however the solutions really proved beneficial.

The cameras are feed into a Philips Audio/Video Switchbox With RF Modulator (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628). The "auto-switching modulator" excepts four audio/video inputs... but using "Y" shaped RCA connectors allows for more. The non-X10 cameras are turned ON and OFF using X10 appliance modules. Wireless cameras feed through a video receiver (also controlled by an appliance module).

From the modulator I feed into my own cable-network (on channel 3) inside my house. I have thought of expanding that to the entire home... but right now my own cable-network is limited to my home theater (http://davesdomainonline.com/ht/ht.htm), a bathroom TV, my office TV, and a VCR.

At the VCR (set to receive channel 3) I use the video out RCA connectors to connect to a video sender (controlled by an appliance module). The VCR is controlled by the (X10) VCR Commander.

Upstairs in the living room I use another Philips Audio/Video Switchbox With RF Modulator (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628):
The cable-box controls the channels, and modulates them to (also) channel 3 (antenna output). The antenna output goes into the Modulator (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628). Behind the TV is a Video Receiver and a lamp plugged into an appliance module (I used a 3 plug adapter) the Video receiver plugs in the Modulator (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628) RCA input (so does a DVD player). If any signal is input into the Modulator (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=2181628) it makes that the channel 3 antenna output. Because the Cable-Box controls the normal channel switching... the TV is always on channel 3.

OK... each camera has it's own house/unit code... Turning on any camera presents the camera image to the VCR via channel 3 (and outputs to the video sender via the VCRs RCA plugs). Both the Video sender and receiver use the same house/ unit code and to turn on when activated.

To set the events in motion.... I use the X10 floodlight(s). The floodlight uses a plus 1-4 and 5-8 for both motion and dusk-dawn sensing). The floodlights only send PLS's (Power Line Signal's), the VCR Commander can only be activated by an RF signal. I created a macro in AHP (Active Home Pro) which is triggered by the floodlights PLS, then sends a RF signal to the VCR Commander. In case I would be asleep (or other-wise away from the TV) when the sensor triggers, the floodlights also trigger a chime in the bedroom.

I think it was last July or August ... X10 had a video contest ... I created this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MANlRiyh8Eo) and won. The video is a good representation (although not completely accurate) of how this all looks and works.
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on August 18, 2007, 09:46:23 PM
Quote from: dave w on June 05, 2007, 01:12:59 PM
At full volume outside the house, upon motion detection, and using wireless speakers being steered by power supplies plugged into appliance modules, the "security system" booms:

"THIS IS THE VOICE OF HOME CONTROL...I HAVE DETECTED MOVEMENT AT THE FRONT (side, back, etc) OF THE HOUSE....I WILL MONITOR".

A copilation of lines from "Colussus: The Forbin Project" (1970) and "The Forbidden Planet" (1956) two kewl sci-fi movies.


Gosh this stuff is fun.


I have been thinking about this post since I 1st read it in June!!! dave w this is the coolest home security idea I think I have EVER read about. Thank-you for sharing this idea!!!!

I want this included in my setup. (as of now.... I only have warnings INSIDE)
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: dave w on August 20, 2007, 12:52:24 PM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on August 18, 2007, 09:46:23 PM

I have been thinking about this post since I 1st read it in June!!! dave w this is the coolest home security idea I think I have EVER read about. Thank-you for sharing this idea!!!!

I want this included in my setup. (as of now.... I only have warnings INSIDE)

"Garsh" Dave Thanks...
Actually I wrote about voice announcements and announcement steering way back in May 1998 issue of Popular Home Automation. This was pre Windows  text to speech engine so  I was using a MAC to generate all the announcements.  I found reaaally cheap wireless speakers at Electronic Goldmine so had the speakers all over the place. Used an Enerlogic 1400 (grand daddy to most X10 scripted controllers - circa 1987)  to steer audio around the house, based on motion detection.
Huge fun.  There was announcement at the driveway that "home control" had  detected a drive up. The front door speaker made a similar "benine" announcement. However if motion was detected on a side of the house where it was not expected, the announcement (at full volume) said that "home control" had detected presence in a restricted area, that their activities were being recorded, and that they had 10 seconds to leave or the authorities would be summoned.

Although we did not live in a crime area,  there were some break-ins in the neighborhood. But we never had any problem, but I am sure I scared the manure out of several deer.

The beauty of the selective announcements, steered to specific areas is; even an experienced burglar may not be sure "Is it real or is it is Memorex?" and will move to easier pillage.  :D  Gee whiz this stuff is fun!
Title: Re: [How-Do-I] Separate 3 Pairs of Floodlights Wired to 1 Switch?
Post by: HA Dave on August 20, 2007, 09:37:32 PM
Really cool and HELPFUL dave w.

Plus I also just read about RCaddict's  MP3 powered replacement for a RoboDog (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13211.msg73744#msg73744) that could also provide announcements.

Quote from: dave w on August 20, 2007, 12:52:24 PM

  Gee whiz this stuff is fun!


YES IT IS!