X10 Community Forum

🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM

Title: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM
i have just bought a transceiver for my new slim line remotes (because reception from the cm-15a is so lousy and the remotes transmit poorly). when i use the remotes to trigger macros or even dim lights the signal runs twice and therefore the light dims two levels and every macro runs twice - any thoughts on this? i have the transceiver and remotes set to house code "g." which is the only way i know that the transceiver will pickup the remotes and send them to the cm-15a. i have been very frustrated with X10 signals not doing what i want them to. things seem to work great for a few days and then they stop. I dont know what the deal is. i really like this stuff but it doesnt seem like enough thought is being but into it.  >:( ???
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: HA Dave on June 12, 2007, 05:45:38 PM
Yep..... your problem sounds as though X10 is performing as expected. Your transceiving twice!

I performed a quick (no cost) mod on my CM15A. It completely resolved my range problems.

I DO have two house codes that I don't transceive with the CM15A and I do use the regular transceivers for them.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 07:41:09 PM
what is your mod? or is it that you dont transmit those house codes - by doing this i can not run macros though - correct?
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: HA Dave on June 12, 2007, 10:31:24 PM
Quote from: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 07:41:09 PM

what is your mod? or is it that you dont transmit those house codes - by doing this i can not run macros though - correct?

Here is a link to my Mod (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9470.msg67187#msg67187).... others there too!

Some MACRO's don't need to be tranceived, some do. Many you may be able to get around using ghost modules.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Tuicemen on June 13, 2007, 10:32:39 AM
Is your transceiver configured correctly in AHP(set as a RF transceiver not an appliance module) and the house code it is on set to not transceive in AHP Hardware configuration? ;) Not doing either will cause problems! ;)
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: zotee98 on June 13, 2007, 01:55:02 PM
if ahp doesnt transceive that means the macros wont run - correct? if the macros are on the same house code as transceiver? i have all my remotes set to run on house code g - therefore transceiver is on house code g. all macros trigger with code g1 g2 g3 from remotes and so on. i guess i dont have something set up right from what i am getting. please help or suggest something to put me on the right path.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Tuicemen on June 13, 2007, 02:05:40 PM
trancieved house code is checked it means AHP will see the rf command but will not repeat it macros will still act on them!
go into AHP "Tools\hardware configuration" and make sure house code "G" is not checked (you may have to set this to specificif it won't stick)  ;)
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 13, 2007, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM

...i have been very frustrated with X10 signals not doing what i want them to. things seem to work great for a few days and then they stop. I dont know what the deal is. i really like this stuff but it doesnt seem like enough thought is being but into it.  >:( ???

It's completely understandable that you're FRUSTRATED - IMO, your only X10 knowledge consists of what you read in the ADs. Welcome to the "Real World of X10".

There's no need to RANT though (not saying you are - other Newbies have posted MUCH WORSE) - your pleas for help here are read and answered solely by VOLUNTEERS - there are currently NO X10 Technical Staff here (MichaelC is ex-X10 Staff, and we're all thankful to have him back, sharing his vast inside knowledge, as a member!).

X10 put PLENTY OF THOUGHT into this idea ~30 years ago when it was first developed. It's now up to YOU (with our help) to get through the "jungle of traps" technology has created SINCE then. Any one of us will be more than happy to help you get YOUR system running with the reliability WE have achieved. BUT, first you have to "do some homework". Read my FAQs and JeffVolp's Tutorials. Then, come back and we'll see where you are... ;)

Quote from: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM

...i have just bought a transceiver for my new slim line remotes... ...when i use the remotes to trigger macros or even dim lights the signal runs twice and therefore the light dims two levels and every macro runs twice...

Of course! Are you "double-dipping" / transceiving twice?

[SIDE NOTE: This brings to mind the ads I used to read for these 'wonderous' fact-filled newsletters I used to get in the daily postal JUNK MAIL (before the Internet took over with SPAM). "Are you transceiving twice? Well, if you subscribe now you'll see on Page 73 how easy it is to solve that problem once and for all! Just send us $14.95..." :D ]

Quote from: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM

...i have the transceiver and remotes set to house code "g." which is the only way i know...

Spock: That is certainly illogical.

BTW, what is the MODEL NUMBER of your transceiver?
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: zotee98 on June 13, 2007, 06:37:02 PM
i have the RR501 transceiver. (which is loud when it turns on - read several complaints about it) from what i read was that it was the better transceiver since it wouldnt jam the codes. really all i want to do is get a light to dim slowly when i turn it off after say 10pm with my slim remote. once someone walks me through these steps i will be set. i will read the info you posted though and im not whining just seeking some help - i really like the idea of the product - once i get it figured out. has anyone tried other software? i have read about some but never heard of anyone finding one that it better then ahp.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 06:53:31 PM
zotee98,
Multiple transceivers can be evil things unless used very, very carefully.  Depending on the model, they are just dumb devices that will take the Rf signal and place it on the poweline regardless of what else is occurring.  The result can be that your transceiver will tromp all over other X10 events from switches, the CM15a, etc.  The result is total havoc.

There are smart transceivers available that monitor the powerline and wait until there is an opening in the X10 communication.  The Leviton model HCPRF transceiver is one of these, however I recently removed mine.  It receives all housecodes and I have several neighbors with X10 Rf.  I t was creating a lot of unwanted activity on my powerline.

If at all possible, work with the CM15a as the only transceiver in the system and turn off all of the transceived codes that you don't absolutely require (per Dave_x10_L).  If this is not possible, use a "Smart Programmable" transceiver that monitors powerline activity (currently executing X10 commands) and can be configured for particular house codes (I need help with a model # here folks).

A couple of other observations:

Quote
if ahp doesnt transceive that means the macros wont run - correct? if the macros are on the same house code as transceiver? i have all my remotes set to run on house code g - therefore transceiver is on house code g. all macros trigger with code g1 g2 g3 from remotes and so on..

Per the Tuicemen

 
Quote
go into AHP "Tools\hardware configuration" and make sure house code "G" is not checked (you may have to set this to specificif it won't stick)

Turn off the transceived housecodes you don't need.  This will prevent unneeded X10 activity, speed up transmission time, and make you system more reliable overall.
 
What macros are you running on these inputs?  Dim commands should not execute macro's (they're triggered by on/off commands).

Per TTA
Read the FAQ's.  I'm a "newby" on this site but I've been using X10 for over 10 years.  Without the help of the people that have "lived" this I'd be locked in a padded room.

The Boiler
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 07:12:02 PM
zotee98,
Sorry, you posted while I was composing my response (I'm old and slow - the best of both worlds).

I'm not sure about the RR501 not stepping on the powerline communication (again some help here oldtimers) but I'll stand by the statement that 2 transceivers is risky unless used carefully.  If your are double triggering (watch the activity monitor) then disable the "G" transceived housecode in AHP or perform a antenna mod per Dave_x10_L and eliminate the RR501. 
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on June 13, 2007, 07:22:56 PM
If you have more than one transceiver, not counting the CM15A due to it's lousy RF reception, they must be on separate housecodes.

The CM15A's RF reception is so poor that I have 2 RR501's in my system.  I have a SS15 in both the Living Room  (housecode A) and the Breakfast Room (housecode F). The SS15 in the Living Room is 10 feet from the CM15A and it cannot receive the RF signals. The RR501 in the Living Room handles the SS15 and likewise the SS15 in the Breakfast Room is handled by the RR501 in the Breakfast Room.

I also have a Keychain Remote, and the CM15A can't receive it, but the the RR501 does.

I'm too lazy to do the antenna mod on the CM15A.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 08:14:26 PM
zotee98,
Sorry, I carried on too long.  If you disable the "G" transceived housecode, in AHP you should eliminate the RF double triggers (RR501 and the CM15a).  I'm not sure
what the "macros" you refer to are for, but they will still respond to the transmitted X10 (powerline) and the Rf.  Past that, I'm still interested in what macros you're using for this housecode. 

Dan Lawrence,
I was unsure whether the RR501 stepped on the transmission line (I have one, but was never able to determine that it was the problem in my system).  I also have a TM751 and this was definitely a "cause of collisions"  in my system.  I revised my system to use only the Cm15a so that I could control what was placed on the powerline (as I said, I've had problems with neighbors "clogging" up my system).  I'd also be interested in whether you have "high activity area" motion sensors transmitting to your RR501.  This has been a problem for me in the past, but with AHP upgrades and a new CM15a I've come to doubt my past experience.



Old dogs can learn new ticks, it just takes a lot longer
The Boiler

Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on June 13, 2007, 08:32:48 PM
No high activity area" motion sensors or any motion sensors in my system.  Don't need them.

I had TM751's and they were "hit or miss" even with Active Home. My local X10 dealer advised the RR501 as it is a more polite and robust transceiver. The 751 is known to collide with any other transceiver.  The RR501 can be set to either unit 1 or 9 by a slide switch. The 751 has no unit code.

If you need two transceivers, junk the 751 and get a 501 to replace it.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 09:35:27 PM
Dan Lawrence,

Glad to hear you've had good luck with the RR501.  You have a working system with two of them and I yield to your experience.  As I said, when I was having problems I yanked all of my transceivers in favor of a single point solution (CM15a) where I could control everything that was placed on the powerline.  My current system has 0 transceived housecodes.  It operates entirely through macros and the powerline.  This of course means that I can't dim using Rf remotes.  It's the price I paid to get my system operating correctly in my subdivision.

I do agree entirely about junking any TM751's.  As I said, I'm a newby to posting an I'm not sure what is politically acceptable.
 
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: Dan Lawrence on June 13, 2007, 10:36:35 PM
I have no problems dimming with the SS15 (Stick-A-Switch) through the 501, the 751 would 50% of the time.  The SS15 in the Breakfast Room drives both a lamp module and an overhead fluorescent light through the 501 there.

Both are established through AHP and have the same address as the unit code 1, so if a timer runs to turn on at 7:30 am to turn on F1 (the lamp module) the 501 will show as on in AHP.  If a timer runs to on F2 (the fluorescent light) the AHP will not show the 501 as on. 

The Living Room SS15 controls A1, A2 & A3. the 501 is on unit code 1, so same rule apples.

I have a single keypress macro that runs from A5 OFF and turns off all units on housecodes A,C and F.  Press A5 off on any desktop controller and every light turns off beginning with A1 through C7, in order.
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 14, 2007, 11:19:57 AM
Quote from: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 07:12:02 PM

...(I'm old and slow - the best of both worlds).

Welcome to the club! The "Old Geezer's" can always use another TECHIE member! :D

Quote from: Boiler on June 13, 2007, 07:12:02 PM

...I'm not sure about the RR501 not stepping on the powerline communication (again some help here oldtimers) but I'll stand by the statement that 2 transceivers is risky unless used carefully...

The part "...2 transceivers is risky unless..." needs to be qualified - more than 1 'late model' RR501, set to DIFFERENT HouseCodes, will work fine. I had 4 running simultaneously with my CM11A and kept them when I began testing the CM15A (still testing... ::) ). Only the 'late model' RR501s have "Collision Detection" circuitry (SEARCH the Newsgroup) - the 'early models' (the ones that only transceived what the slide switch was set to), the Stanley, the RCA - even though they "look" the same, don't have the additional circuitry.

And the TM751 - I haven't a CLUE why X10 marketed that except for COST! :o ::) :P I started out with the 'early model' RR501s and Stanley. Then, during the "Firecracker Introduction" got several friends and co-workers to buy the $6 PACKAGE - I thought I was in heaven... (until)

It all depends on how well you plan your 'RF Traffic Patterns' (HOUSECODES: By Room or By Module Type or By Function or...? (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg57946#msg57946)). I've even be able to add *ONE* TM751 back (controlled by an Appliance Module) for "Nighttime Motion" ("Nighttime Only" Motion Detectors control 'certain' lights in a path between the bedroom and the bathroom (and the kitchen - in case you're thirsty, or need to take some meds,  too!). ;)

Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: azzar0 on June 26, 2007, 12:53:41 PM
Interesting - I never knew that the TM751 were a problem!!!
I have 2 of them running in parallel with my CM15A because the latter's inability to receive RF properly. Are you saying I should NOT be using them? Why are they so poor? I did make the (simple) modification to my CM15A, so I will try to switch all transceived house codes to the CM15a to see if everything still works. I am also curious to see if this will eliminate some of the problems I've been seeing (missed timers, lights don't turn on or off the first time, etc).
Is the CM15a a much better transceiver unit, comparable with the reliable ones out there?

To the Original Poster - did you ever get your macros to work properly? It sounds to me like disabling the transceived house code in AHP's Hardware configuration would resolve your issue, because you are replicating every command. OR mod the antenna on the CM15a and get rid of the second transceiver. Let us know ;)

Thanks!
Title: Re: [HELP] Macro Problems Began With Addition of New (First) Transceiver?
Post by: TakeTheActive on June 26, 2007, 02:07:59 PM
Hey zotee98,

How about a "Status Update"?


Quote from: TakeTheActive on June 13, 2007, 04:21:57 PM
Quote from: zotee98 on June 12, 2007, 04:15:30 PM

...i have been very frustrated with X10 signals not doing what i want them to. things seem to work great for a few days and then they stop. I dont know what the deal is. i really like this stuff but it doesnt seem like enough thought is being but into it.  >:( ???

...Any one of us will be more than happy to help you get YOUR system running with the reliability WE have achieved. BUT, first you have to "do some homework". Read my FAQs and JeffVolp's Tutorials.

Then, come back and we'll see where you are... ;)

Quote from: zotee98 on June 13, 2007, 06:37:02 PM

i have the RR501 transceiver. (which is loud when it turns on - read several complaints about it) from what i read was that it was the better transceiver since it wouldnt jam the codes. really all i want to do is get a light to dim slowly when i turn it off after say 10pm with my slim remote. once someone walks me through these steps i will be set...

The RR501 *ONLY* makes a CLICK when IT'S HouseCode / UnitCode is received - you have 15 other UnitCodes to choose from for your light!  8)