This feature used to only be available on the now-discontinued LM14A Two-Way Lamp Module. However, we will be introducing it in new LM465 lamp modules- we needed to change out one of the chips inside, and the engineers decided to upgrade the unit.
How nice of X-10 to make a radical change in a product's characteristics without changing the model number.
How nice of X-10 to make a radical change in a product's characteristics without changing the model number. How many people will understand what's going on with their systems when they unknowingly have a mix of old versus new modules.
Is X10 responding to customer requests, or is this a case of component obsolescence?
...I really like the soft start on my Leviton dimmers. Bulb life is significantly increased by eliminating the surge current at turn on. Great for outdoor lamps.
Sounds like a new feature and I was wondering what an owner thought of the new feature
Would you estimate the bulb life is increased enough to cover the added expense of keeping a 150 watt flood / spot (times 10 for me) at 1% for ~6 hours/day to allow a 'soft' ramp-up when detecting motion during the "busy" period (dusk until ~4 - 6 hours later) ?
How nice of X-10 to make a radical change in a product's characteristics without changing the model number. How many people will understand what's going on with their systems when they unknowingly have a mix of old versus new modules.
...For example, as I just found out, there are two different UR-74 remotes.
Absolutely not - a 1% quiescent current would be a stiff price to pay for a soft ramp. Where does the 1% # come from?
[Absolutely not - a 1% quiescent current would be a stiff price to pay for a soft ramp. Where does the 1% # come from?..
Back in the " old days ", CM11A/AH owners would program a "DIM to 1%" instead of an OFF to be followed by a "BRIGHTEN TO xx%" SoftStart instead of an ON.
I just plugged three 100 Watt incandescent lamps into an "old" LM465 and the latter into a "Kill-A-Watt" meter. The accuracy of this meter is specified as 0.2% of full scale (1875 Watts) and is therefore questionable at these low levels. But I read:
Module fully On - 294 Watts
Module turned Off - 0 Watts
Module dimmed to minimum brightness - flipping between 5 and 6 Watts
That would be closer to 2%.
Back in the " old days ", CM11A/AH owners would program a "DIM to 1%" instead of an OFF to be followed by a "BRIGHTEN TO xx%" SoftStart instead of an ON.I just plugged three 100 Watt incandescent lamps into an "old" LM465 and the latter into a "Kill-A-Watt" meter. The accuracy of this meter is specified as 0.2% of full scale (1875 Watts) and is therefore questionable at these low levels. But I read:
Module fully On - 294 Watts
Module turned Off - 0 Watts
Module dimmed to minimum brightness - flipping between 5 and 6 Watts
That would be closer to 2%.
Ah yes, the early days of X10. Before cell phones, CFL's, and electronic ballasts - I remember them well.
As usual, you are both absolutely correct. Leaving a module dimmed to 1% for 90% of the day, so that you can program a soft start for the 10% of the day that the device is in use, is horribly wasteful.
If the new LM465 is setup like my Leviton dimmers, you don't need to leave the device at the 1% level. The on ramp is controlled by the switch. From an off state (0 watts), you can issue an on command and the device will ramp to full on (or preset dim level). No current inrush to kill your filaments. No 1% off condition consuming power. No repeated bright and dim commands clogging up your power line.
Am I missing something here?
I haven't tried any of the new LM465's yet but I have used this feature in the now discontinued LM14A Two-Way Lamp Module. I liked it very much. Not only did it dim up and down it also remembered the previous dim setting and the lamp when turned on would go to that dim level.
Thank you for the information. Will be a help to many.
Testing was performed with a CM11A operated with Heyu software under Linux. I haven't determined how accurately the new LM465 can be controlled with AHP software - it would seem that a separate model for the new LM465 ought to be required.
If (as appear highly likely from the description) all X-10 has done is make an Off signal dim the module to minimum brightness, then we're stuck with the wasted energy.
If (as appear highly likely from the description) all X-10 has done is make an Off signal dim the module to minimum brightness, then we're stuck with the wasted energy.
FWIW
I see don't where you get that idea, but even if I missed something, it is very unlikely that X10 would resort that method of soft off. Diming to 1% would mean the module would revert to it's old behavior of 100% ON any time the power was interupted, bulb changed, module unplugged, etc.. The old LM14 did not exhibit this.
BTW, how do we buy these "new" LM465 modules?
I wonder if the SoftStart feature will be integrated into the wall switch line? Would be nice.
I wonder if the SoftStart feature will be integrated into the wall switch line? Would be nice.
I was wondering that too. I believe that both the lamp module and the wall switch module use the same main IC, no? So, if X10 had to redesign it, it should effect both.
...My results are available at: http://www.heyu.org/docs/New_LM465.txt
Basically,nklght,
this new version will keep the light on and waste energy, even though I think it has been shut off.
As a reference. I just got an LM456 Date Code:07G27 and it does not soft start. Acts like the older ones we have known for years.
Maybe leftover stuff from Radio Shack discontinuing the line; though it is in an X10 case. Was part of the deal that included the TM12A Mini-Timer that sure look like the one RS use to carry. LCD display and all.
As a reference. I just got an LM456 Date Code:07G27 and it does not soft start. Acts like the older ones we have known for years.
Maybe leftover stuff from Radio Shack discontinuing the line; though it is in an X10 case. Was part of the deal that included the TM12A Mini-Timer that sure look like the one RS use to carry. LCD display and all.
Have two DC 07G27. Both act the same.
On or Off: No ramp fast on or off.
Dim; if off; goes to 100% fast; then down from there.
Dimmed to 50%; then off. Then back on; full on
All Lights ON: responds
All Lights Off: Does not respond
All Units Off: Responds.
I don't have a way to do X10 Extended; so that I could not test.
Date Code: 07G27 Date Code: 02F23
IC H78561 F78651
45713571 0614 [maybe date code] 70196019 0131
PCB: H10004A H10004
Have two DC 07G27. Both act the same.
On or Off: No ramp fast on or off.
Dim; if off; goes to 100% fast; then down from there.
Dimmed to 50%; then off. Then back on; full on
All Lights ON: responds
All Lights Off: Does not respond
All Units Off: Responds.
I don't have a way to do X10 Extended; so that I could not test.
Date Code: 07G27 Date Code: 02F23
IC H78561 F78651
45713571 0614 [maybe date code] 70196019 0131
PCB: H10004A H10004
Your unit sure behaves like an "old" LM465. I believe the H78561 refers to the firmware with the "H" being the revision. Pretty difficult for two different PIC's to share the same firmware.
I looks like X10 has found a supply of "original" LM465's and is shipping those in lieu of the new hardware. Maybe this was all just a "mistake" at the factory?
OK, how do we tell which LM465 we have without opening the case?
I have 5 unused LM465's, all have a small round sticker on the back on the lower right corner. 2 have code 07A01, 2 have code 04L51 and 1 has code 05E19.
Are any the Latest Version of the LM465?
FWIW - I talked to a X10 rep today and they told me that X10 has not made any changes to the LM465 module....It seems like at least one rep is in the dark.
OK, how do we tell which LM465 we have without opening the case?
I have 5 unused LM465's, all have a small round sticker on the back on the lower right corner. 2 have code 07A01, 2 have code 04L51 and 1 has code 05E19.
Are any the Latest Version of the LM465?
Open a new room in AHP and drag in a LM14A icon set to the same address as your module. Drag the brightness slider on the icon up a ways, then down a ways. If the lamp responds, it's a redesigned unit, otherwise it's an old one. (The Activity Monitor should show the Extended Codes being sent when you twiddle the slider.)
Here's a summary of what we've seen so far regarding the new "soft start" LM465 versus old LM465:
Date code Type Reporter
------------- ------ ------------
07A01 Old Dan Lawrence
07C12 Old KDR
07D17 New Charles Sullivan
07G27 Old Brian H
Here's a summary of what we've seen so far regarding the new "soft start" LM465 versus old LM465:Argh... I had hoped we would find a cut off date where the old ones would stop and the new ones began but with 07D17
Date code Type Reporter
------------- ------ ------------
07A01 Old Dan Lawrence
07C12 Old KDR
07D17 New Charles Sullivan
07G27 Old Brian H
I see this thread is a few months old so maybe this is old information, but I just asked X10 support about this. I asked if I order a LM465 today will it have "Softstart". The answer was Yes.
So I ordered one and I'll find out in a few days if it's true.
Greg
I see this thread is a few months old so maybe this is old information, but I just asked X10 support about this. I asked if I order a LM465 today will it have "Softstart". The answer was Yes...
It looks like tech support is still clueless. I got my LM465 today and it does not appear to have SoftStart (On command does not ramp up, does not respond to the extended dim commands). The date code is 07137. Looks like I wasted my money since SoftStart was the only reason I bought it.
EDIT: I thought I was in luck when I got the order confirmation. The SKU was LM465-S (I thought maybe the -S meant SoftStart) while the SKU on my previous order last year was LM465-HA. But the box looks the same as always, no -S.
If it does not ramp up and down with on and off commands it is an older version. Date Codes don't seem to mean much. As there where earlier ones in 07 that have it and some later 07s didn't. My 07G27s do not.
If it does not ramp up and down with on and off commands it is an older version. Date Codes don't seem to mean much. As there where earlier ones in 07 that have it and some later 07s didn't. My 07G27s do not.
wazkaren:
Are you sure you read the date code sticker correctly? For many years X-10 has used a date code with a one or two digit year followed by a letter code followed by a two digit number, e.g., Brian's 07G27.
If it does not ramp up and down with on and off commands it is an older version. Date Codes don't seem to mean much. As there where earlier ones in 07 that have it and some later 07s didn't. My 07G27s do not.
wazkaren:
Are you sure you read the date code sticker correctly? For many years X-10 has used a date code with a one or two digit year followed by a letter code followed by a two digit number, e.g., Brian's 07G27.
Charles, right you are. My eyes aren't what they used to be. When I look closer it's 07J44. But it still doesn't appear to have soft start.
Greg
Almost sounds like they used the newer surface mounted PCB and redid the firmware in it to the older standard.
Yes old DIP style chip PCB.
Is there any retailer from which one can order a LM465, and be assured that they get one of the new ones with "softstart"? ???
I would really need a LM14A, but I don't require 2-way plus the LM14A have been officially discontinued. Matter of fact, I usually turn that 2-way status return feature 'off' (and try to live with AHP trying to re-enable it). I just need the pre-set dim, or the ability to turn 'on' and go directly to a dim level without going thru 100% first. The new LM465 can do that, and therefore, makes a good choice for me.
Some of the smaller X10 resellers on eBay are probably closer to the product details than the big guys. I've gotten most of my stuff recently from Tim at "The Home Automation Store". Try asking him (support@authinx.com) what he knows of his current LM465 inventory.
I just purchased 30+ switches from THAS from their eBay store front. I must say, great customer service and they gave me a great package deal for the WS12A's & WS14A's I wanted. I actually received the X10 Pro counter parts to these the XPD3 & XPSS.
...there are no external markings or part number changes to see which ones I have.What are the date codes on them? Should have 2 numbers, a letter, and 2 more numbers. Some dates codes are tending to be the new ones. We might be able to tell you before you install them which ones are new.
What are the date codes on them? Should have 2 numbers, a letter, and 2 more numbers.
I checked all 15 of he XPD3 switches I purchased and they are all the same date codes.I think this is the most complete list (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13006.msg74885#msg74885) that has been found so far and I didn't see "07F23" on it. Let us know if your switches turn out to be the new or the old ones so we can add that date code to the list.
I located a little round sticker on the back which read "07F23" on all of them...
...there are no external markings or part number changes to see which ones I have.What are the date codes on them? Should have 2 numbers, a letter, and 2 more numbers. Some dates codes are tending to be the new ones. We might be able to tell you before you install them which ones are new.
If you would be kind enough to keep track of your date codes and post which ones are and are not the "new & improved" ones, it would greatly help the list that is being put together. What I've started doing as I put in new switches is to print a label with the date code and stick on the backside of the switch plate cover.
I think this is the most complete list (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13006.msg74885#msg74885) that has been found so far and I didn't see "07F23" on it. Let us know if your switches turn out to be the new or the old ones so we can add that date code to the list.
Now to figure out why it won't come ON from AHP! ??? >:(
I think this is the most complete list (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13006.msg74885#msg74885) that has been found so far and I didn't see "07F23" on it. Let us know if your switches turn out to be the new or the old ones so we can add that date code to the list.
My XPD3 switches are indeed the "new" models. These all have the same date code "07F23" and they feature the Softstart ON, Softstart OFF and DIM setting memory. I guess I just got lucky! ;D
Now to figure out why it won't come ON from AHP! ??? >:(
I could ask my contact at "The Home Automation Store" (THAS) what he thinks an if he has any further input. :-\
Try programming them as an AM468 Appliance Module and see what sort of response you get from just simple On and Off commands.
Well, it looks like it has been a few months so I was just checking if there is any more info on the new LM465's?
And I just want to be sure I understand the soft start feature. Does it truly allow the LM465 to be able to power an incandescent on without ramping all the way up to the full wattage of the bulb and then going back down to the dim level setting?
I think that powering to full and then going back down is very wasteful and also a little tacky looking compared to just dimming up to the desired dim level from the off state.
Also, I keep reading about the Leviton lamp modules. Are they really worth the price?
I am looking for cool dim effects, etc. for 40 watt incandescent bulbs but I do not want to waste too much money either, but do not mind spending money for quality products, which, at present, makes me wonder if x10 is a quality product or not, especially if some of the x10 companies do this kind of crazy upgrade without changing the model number. That just seems very wrong to me and could cause all kinds of problems. I don't see how something like that could get past the quality control department of any company.
Even after all this time x10.com is still sometimes sending out the older non-softstarts?
I believe all the LM465s are now soft start, but only X10 knows for sure....I wouldn't bet that anyone including X10 knows for sure. Much less the poor warehouse guy packing your shipment.
If you change way the hardware operates, you need to change the model number!
....When I dim a lamp with the remotes, and then power it off with the remote, and then turn it back on by pressing dim or bright, it comes back on at the last dim setting....So the soft start LM465 will turn on it they receive a dim or bright signal?
So the soft start LM465 will turn on it they receive a dim or bright signal?
The new soft start wall switches don't respond to a bright or dim unless you send a on first.