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🛡Home Security => Problems and Troubleshooting => Topic started by: forthill on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM

Title: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: forthill on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
The DS10A comes with a foot long wire from the unit to the door/window sensor.  Just wondering if it would be ok, and if it works, to elongate this wire.
Has anyone tried it and does the longer wire impede the reliability or sensitivity of the sensor?

Thanks!
forthill
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 08:16:21 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
The DS10A comes with a foot long wire from the unit to the door/window sensor.  Just wondering if it would be ok, and if it works, to elongate this wire.
Has anyone tried it and does the longer wire impede the reliability or sensitivity of the sensor?

How much longer do you want to make it?  If you say 1 inch, I'd say no problem; if 50 feet, hmm ...

Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Puck on September 11, 2007, 08:48:06 PM
I just did a quick test and extended the length by 20' using 28AWG wire.

It worked fine. I'm sure the input impedance of the switch is high enough to withstand a reasonable extension.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 09:06:06 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 11, 2007, 08:48:06 PM
I just did a quick test and extended the length by 20' using 28AWG wire.

It worked fine. I'm sure the input impedance of the switch is high enough to withstand a reasonable extension.


The switch is normally closed and for reasonable battery life the current has to be pretty small.  So I think you're correct.  However I'd be more concerned about stray pickup in the longer wiring setting off false alerts.  Using a twisted pair for long lengths would be prudent.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: HA Dave on September 11, 2007, 09:07:15 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 11, 2007, 08:48:06 PM
I just did a quick test and extended the length by 20' using 28AWG wire.

It worked fine. I'm sure the input impedance of the switch is high enough to withstand a reasonable extension.


Years ago.... I hardwired an alarm with similar reed switches... and some really long runs. I don't think (IMHO) the switches would be a problem... any problem would be the signal strength of the DS10A.

Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Puck on September 11, 2007, 09:17:28 PM
Quote from: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 09:06:06 PM
Using a twisted pair for long lengths would be prudent.

Good point Charles.
And if your path takes you near any other wires, try to be perpendicular to them as opposed to parallel.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: forthill on September 11, 2007, 11:05:14 PM
Quote from: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 08:16:21 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
The DS10A comes with a foot long wire from the unit to the door/window sensor.  Just wondering if it would be ok, and if it works, to elongate this wire.
Has anyone tried it and does the longer wire impede the reliability or sensitivity of the sensor?

How much longer do you want to make it?  If you say 1 inch, I'd say no problem; if 50 feet, hmm ...



Only a few feet at most.  And I'd probably remove the original wire replacing it in its entirety.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 11:45:51 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 11, 2007, 11:05:14 PM
Quote from: Charles Sullivan on September 11, 2007, 08:16:21 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 11, 2007, 08:04:15 PM
The DS10A comes with a foot long wire from the unit to the door/window sensor.  Just wondering if it would be ok, and if it works, to elongate this wire.
Has anyone tried it and does the longer wire impede the reliability or sensitivity of the sensor?

How much longer do you want to make it?  If you say 1 inch, I'd say no problem; if 50 feet, hmm ...



Only a few feet at most.  And I'd probably remove the original wire replacing it in its entirety.

I wouldn't expect a problem if you keep the total length less than 6 feet and don't run the wire close to and parallel with an AC power line.

Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: forthill on September 12, 2007, 04:03:35 PM
Thanks everyone!
I'm going to use these units with my DS7000 to "monitor" if/when my daughter sneaks out at night.

The only problem I see is that if she is smarter than I give her credit for and she removes the batteries from the DS10A then she has effectively disabled the switch and can sneak out/in.
Unless the DS7000 "knows" that it was originally armed and the sensor was functioning and now it is not (because the battery is out).  Hopefully it will think this is a low/dead battery situation and flag it on the console somehow.

forthill
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Puck on September 12, 2007, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 12, 2007, 04:03:35 PM
Unless the DS7000 "knows" that it was originally armed and the sensor was functioning and now it is not (because the battery is out).  Hopefully it will think this is a low/dead battery situation and flag it on the console somehow.

Actually the console will eventually know.

Every hour the sensor sends the console it's current status. If the console does not receive a sensor's status after ~ 4 hours, it turns the corresponding red led on the console on (armed or disarmed).

Unfortunately 4 hours is a long time; probably enough for any teen to leave and be back before the console detects it.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 12, 2007, 04:42:00 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 12, 2007, 04:17:45 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 12, 2007, 04:03:35 PM
Unless the DS7000 "knows" that it was originally armed and the sensor was functioning and now it is not (because the battery is out).  Hopefully it will think this is a low/dead battery situation and flag it on the console somehow.

Actually the console will eventually know.

Every hour the sensor sends the console it's current status. If the console does not receive a sensor's status after ~ 4 hours, it turns the corresponding red led on the console on (armed or disarmed).

Unfortunately 4 hours is a long time; probably enough for any teen to leave and be back before the console detects it.


If the batteries are removed for more than a few minutes, the DS-10A's security ID will be forgotten and replaced by a new one when the batteries are reinstalled.   So although it may take up to 4 hours for the LED to come on, the console will still indicate that it hasn't received a signal from that DS10A.

Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: forthill on September 12, 2007, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 12, 2007, 04:17:45 PM

Unfortunately 4 hours is a long time; probably enough for any teen to leave and be back before the console detects it.


Well, so much for that idea  ???
I guess the same thing would happen if she clipped the sensor wires?
Hence the idea of elongating the sensor wire - I'll be able to better "hide" the sensor box.....at least until the first time she's caught...
Or perhaps I need to glue it shut!

Better yet - I'll need to install motion sensors.....

forthill
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: KDR on September 12, 2007, 05:38:20 PM
Just to add a bit more info on the wire length, I just tested the sensor by extending the wire to 150 feet and it worked fine. I would have tested a longer length but I ran out of wire. I don't think outside interference would be a problem but if you wanted to be sure you could use shield cable an long runs.

You can run multiple window/door sensors in series where any one sensor in the loop will cause a trigger.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Puck on September 12, 2007, 05:51:19 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 12, 2007, 05:31:45 PM
I guess the same thing would happen if she clipped the sensor wires?

If she clipped the wires, it would trigger the alarm if armed, or ding the console if not armed but in Run2 mode, and in all cases it would light the LED.

Having said that, if you give the wires enough exposed room to play with (from giving it more length), one could easily short it out, thus disabling the door switch. ;)

If she did remove the batteries, she would have to reset and re-install all the sensors to hide what she did. As Charles alluded to, you may not catch her in the act, but you would definitely know what happened.

If you're handy with doing a modification, you could wire a Normally Closed switch in series with the door sensor switch and position inside the DS10A's battery door so that it becomes a tamper-proof switch. Of course it would have to me reasonably small to fit, and positioned stable enough to not be the cause of a false alarm. One idea might be to wire-up and attach two small pieces of metal, one on the top of the door and the other on the base where the door meets it when closed.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 12, 2007, 06:46:30 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 12, 2007, 05:31:45 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 12, 2007, 04:17:45 PM

Unfortunately 4 hours is a long time; probably enough for any teen to leave and be back before the console detects it.


Well, so much for that idea  ???
I guess the same thing would happen if she clipped the sensor wires?
Hence the idea of elongating the sensor wire - I'll be able to better "hide" the sensor box.....at least until the first time she's caught...
Or perhaps I need to glue it shut!

Better yet - I'll need to install motion sensors.....

forthill


A good way to teach kids to use their noggins is to present them with challenges like this.

If your daughter spends a little time researching how the system operates, she'll just hook a clip lead across the two wire connections on the magnetic switch.    She'll learn this by searching this forum and reading this message.  :)

Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: HA Dave on September 12, 2007, 08:22:45 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 12, 2007, 04:03:35 PM

I'm going to use these units with my DS7000 to "monitor" if/when my daughter sneaks out at night.

forthill

The DS7000 is a great idea! Maybe the trick would be to also include some X10 floodlights (PR511). One at each corner of your home will turn ON up to four different unit codes (lights, cameras, a CHIME) when motion is detected... coming OR going. X10 often runs there special price for four.
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: forthill on September 13, 2007, 04:56:24 PM
Quote from: Puck on September 11, 2007, 08:48:06 PM
I just did a quick test and extended the length by 20' using 28AWG wire.

By the way, what is the AWG size of the wire already on the sensor?
Title: Re: DS10A - Can I Extend the Supplied Foot Long Sensor Wire?
Post by: Puck on September 13, 2007, 07:38:17 PM
Quote from: forthill on September 13, 2007, 04:56:24 PM
By the way, what is the AWG size of the wire already on the sensor?

Without actually measuring, I'd say 24.