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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: kmcgillycuddy on September 24, 2007, 02:25:15 PM

Title: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: kmcgillycuddy on September 24, 2007, 02:25:15 PM
Thank you for reading my question.

I'm a newbie to X10 solutions.  I'm excited about implementing AHP with Video Surveillance and then perhaps look to replace my ADT system with an X10 security solution.  I've been involved w/ technology for 20+ years so I know this is going to take time to do right.  I'm going to eat this elephant one bite at a time and focus on getting AHP to work.

I just received my starter kit and ran into the basic problem of the X10 signals not being able to go across the different electicial phases.  Makes sense.  I investigated the phase coupler solution found at http://www.smarthome.com/solution04.html.  My problem is that I can't find a double phase outlet in my house, I have looked in the laundry room and everywhere else.  What's weird is that I do have a 40amp circuit that is connectd to phase A and phase B for my Central Air, but I can't find any other outlets on that circuit.  So I guess I'm stuck with having to have an electritian in to add a phase coupler to my circuit breaker board.  I don't like this solution for two reasons; the first is that I'm worried about the safety of coupling the phases (I have a good BASIC understanding of electrical circuits and I know enough to get a professional to do all of my wiring  :).  My second concern, obviously, is the cost of having to hire an electrician for this.

I was trying to think of an alternative.  Is it possible to put two CM15As onto a single installation of AHP without any system issues?  I could then put one CM15A on phase A and the second on phase B.  Would this be a less expensive way to be able to send the X10 command signals to all of my devices?

Here are my questions in a nutshell:
1) Can I run two CM15A's on one AHP
2) Are there any risks of putting a phase coupler in a circuit breaker box
3) Are there any other alternatives that I haven't thought about

Thanks for your time.  I'm enjoying the X10 experience.

Regards,

Kevin
Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: KDR on September 24, 2007, 02:57:09 PM
If you don't have an electric drier or stove maybe the easy way out is to have a 30Amp drier plug installed in your laundry room. Then you have one if the need ever comes up plus you can plug in a phase coupler instead of hardwiring one in.

I think the topic of using 2 CM15A controllers has come up before and I'm sure someone will post about it. I'm at work at the moment but will look later if no one has replied.

Your central air circuit will not have any other outlets connected to that circuit. When you install a 220 VAC circuit it is for a specific appliance and does not have multiple outlets. The amp rating of the circuit will dictate what style receptacle is used. The exception to this rule would be something like a 220 volt line in a garage for a welder. You might have a plug on one wall and another on an opposite wall, same circuit. However the 2 outlets should never be used at the same time, only one or the other.

Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: Charles Sullivan on September 24, 2007, 04:06:15 PM
kmcgillycuddy:
A phase coupler is normally (per electrical code) not installed within the breaker box, but in a separate switchbox next to the breaker box. it's wired into the breaker box on a 240V breaker, similar to how a socket for a clothes dryer would be wired.  (One good reason for keeping components outside the breaker box is that in the unlikely event that the component goes up in flames, it won't burn up the breakers and wire insulation in the breaker box, which would be catastrophic.)

Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: Puck on September 24, 2007, 04:08:43 PM
With regards to the 2 CM15A's with 1 AHP, the answer is a definite YES & NO.  ;)

It is possible to run a house set up with more than 1 CM15A, outside of preventing some conflict issues it's quite easy. Myself and a few others (I believe) are currently doing this.

However, only 1 can be connected to a single PC at a time. If you have 2 PC's the better. With 1 PC, you would have to keep changing the "*.AHX" file in AHP based on who you are connected to.

Having a 2 CM15A setups gives you more automation processing power, but I still recommend you try and fix the basic issue of phase coupling first before looking at alternate ways around it.

Have you mapped out your circuits to see what circuit & phase all your X10 components are on? With a circuit map, you may find that you can place most modules on a single phase just by moving them to another outlet in the same room. You may be lucky and find that just one room / circuit is on the other phase, then an easy alternative is to place a single house code transceiver on that circuit and have the CM15A communicate to it with RF.
Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: TakeTheActive on September 25, 2007, 12:57:59 AM
Quote from: kmcgillycuddy on September 24, 2007, 02:25:15 PM

...I've been involved w/ technology for 20+ years so I know this is going to take time to do right....

...I just received my starter kit and ran into the basic problem of the X10 signals not being able to go across the different electicial phases...

...Is it possible to put two CM15As onto a single installation of AHP without any system issues?  I could then put one CM15A on phase A and the second on phase B.  Would this be a less expensive way to be able to send the X10 command signals to all of my devices?

IMHO, this is a *VERY* bad idea - a bandaid, so-to-speak - with so much potential for creating future problems that I don't understand why anyone else hasn't BLUNTLY stated such. ??? :o ::)



NOTE: Oldtimers, *STOP* reading HERE! - because here comes one of my "Broken Record" Boilerplate Newbie speeches from the Archives):

Without a proper foundation in X10 knowledge and a logical plan-of-action, successfully troubleshooting and solving an X10 problem is like hitting the bullseye on a dart board while throwing the darts BLINDFOLDED (*AFTER* someone randomly spun you around! :D ). But, if you've got money to burn... ::)

Rather than volley back-and-forth with 'Try this...', 'Didn't work? Well then, try this...', I prefer to get Newbies up to a 'known' knowledge level and then work from there.

For a solid foundation of X10 Operation, please start off by reading:

JV Digital Engineering's X10 Troubleshooting Tutorials Series (http://jvde.us/x10_troubleshooting.htm) (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_New.gif)

Then:
MAP / MEASURE / CORRECT (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg62635#msg62635) - be sure to read the EXCELLENT articles written by JeffVolp and Puck (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_Updated_blue_sm_wte.gif)

Finally, with your CIRCUIT MAP and SIGNAL METER in hand, finish up with:

TTA's X10 Troubleshooting Tips Thread [Updated: 2007/03/05]  (Read 8736 times) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=9899.msg57582#msg57582)

As both Jeff Volp and I say:

Quote
I understand that most users don't want to hear this but

to have a reliable X10 System requires a substantial upfront investment in time and effort

To Get a Reliable X10 System (and I mean RELIABLE), One Has To Do Some Homework (courtesy of Jeff Volp) (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=10187.msg58732#msg58732) (http://www.geocities.com/taketheactive/Images/X10_New.gif)

Bottom line kmcgillycuddy:

Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: Puck on September 25, 2007, 09:40:03 AM
Quote from: TakeTheActive on September 25, 2007, 12:57:59 AM
IMHO, this is a *VERY* bad idea - a bandaid, so-to-speak - with so much potential for creating future problems that I don't understand why anyone else hasn't BLUNTLY stated such. ??? :o ::)

 ???

Quote from: Puck on September 24, 2007, 04:08:43 PM
Having a 2 CM15A setups gives you more automation processing power, but I still recommend you try and fix the basic issue of phase coupling first before looking at alternate ways around it.

Taking care of the root problem has been recommended.  ;)
Title: Re: [Newbie] Can I Use Multiple CM15A in One AHP Installation?
Post by: kmcgillycuddy on September 28, 2007, 02:50:53 PM
Thank you everyone for you responses. 

TakeTheActive, thank you for your sage advice!  I am reading everything (twice some times) and spending time in the planning phase.  I appreciate the great links so that I can learn how to fish for myself.

I have completed my circuit map and identified that I can accomplish what I need using the circuites on phase A.  This should save me a lot of trouble shooting time in the future.

Thanks again...

More quesitons to come  :)

Regards,

Kevin