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📸Cameras & Camera Software => Camera General Discussion => Topic started by: ChopperPilot on October 20, 2007, 07:11:38 PM

Title: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: ChopperPilot on October 20, 2007, 07:11:38 PM
We installed a Sentinel camera outside a metal building which appears to be shielding the remote control signal.
We wired the video directly so that is not an issue.
Any suggestions on what we should do?

I was thinking of trying to remove the antenna from the sentinal and wiring an extension to it so that I can pass the antenna inside the hangar and have better line of sight with the remote.  Anybody ever move an antenna from a Sentinel?  How many wires run into the antenna? and can I just splice them onto a 3 ft extension to move it?

The other option would be to try to move the USB control unit closer to the camera and potentially cut a hole in the hangar wall for line of sight control as well.  Don't really want to do this one.

Thanks,

Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: dave w on October 21, 2007, 06:06:24 PM
Quote from: ChopperPilot on October 20, 2007, 07:11:38 PM
We installed a Sentinel camera outside a metal building which appears to be shielding the remote control signal.
We wired the video directly so that is not an issue.
Any suggestions on what we should do?

I was thinking of trying to remove the antenna from the sentinal and wiring an extension to it so that I can pass the antenna inside the hangar and have better line of sight with the remote. 


If you are talking about the "paddle" antenna, that is the 2.4GHz antenna for the video I don't think that is the antenna receiving the pan and tilt comands from the remote. (Anyone feel free to help me on this).

I think the pan and tilt is handled on a seperate 310MHz RF link. 

You might try a "passive repeater". If you have some coax handy (RG 58, RG 6, etc)  try this. Strip 18" of shield and braid way from center conductor and postion the 18" center conductor (now an antenna) near the Sentinel. Poke the coax thu the same hole you ran the Sentinel video coax through. Now take the other end of the coax, strip back 18" of shield and braid for the "inside antenna". Hold the remote close to the "inside antenna" and see if the Sentinel responds. If it does, send me money. if it doesn't...sorry I got you back up on the ladder.

(synaps fired here)

You might be able test the use of a passive repeater by just running 36" to 40" of stiff bare wire (14ga copper from a hunk of Romex should do nicely) through any hole in the metal wall near the Sentinel. Where the wire passes through the wall, it must not touch the metal. You want approximately 18" inside the building, and approximately 18" outside the building. If that works then the passive repeater described above should work as a more permanent solution.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Brian H on October 21, 2007, 06:11:40 PM
As far as I know David is correct. Wireless video is in the 2.4 GHz range and the pan and tilt is X10s 310 MHz.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: HA Dave on November 02, 2007, 10:54:28 AM
Quote from: ChopperPilot on October 20, 2007, 07:11:38 PM

The other option would be to try to move the USB control unit closer to the camera and potentially cut a hole in the hangar wall for line of sight control as well.  Don't really want to do this one.


What is the USB unit (model) that you are using? If your controling the Camera with the AHP (CM15A) this could be a very easy fix... much has been written (posted) about extending the antenna of the CM15A.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Brian H on November 02, 2007, 06:17:56 PM
The CM15As transmitting antenna is glued inside the case and not the well documented receive antenna most have seen range modifications to.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: HA Dave on November 02, 2007, 09:01:12 PM
Quote from: Brian H on November 02, 2007, 06:17:56 PM
The CM15As transmitting antenna is glued inside the case and not the well documented receive antenna most have seen range modifications to.

My mistake. Sorry ChopperPilot and thank you Brian H for pointing that out. Could the Smart Repeater (SR731) (http://www.x10.com/automation/x10_sr731.htm) be useful, or modified to be useful?
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Brian H on November 03, 2007, 09:17:43 AM
I don't know if the SR731 could be used. I have never played with one.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: KDR on November 03, 2007, 06:49:38 PM
I use a SR731 so that I can use the CM15A to work with one of my Ninja's. Without it I can not get AHP to move it and its hit and miss with my CR14A remote.

No somewhere here on the boards, do a search for the SR731 there was some posts about it working and not working as I recall. Seems that maybe there might of been a change in the SR731 at some point.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: sphon721 on September 15, 2008, 02:33:40 PM
no good unless that repeater can do wireless, the sentinel does not use powerline commands, i have been searching for a way to get better RF wireless from the cm15a to the sentinel, I found one post talking about changing the daughter board out but it was only a suggestion, im thinking a 310mhz tuned antenna may be the solution, may have to do it on the cm15a and the sentinel. anybody help here??????
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Alan V on September 15, 2008, 04:12:21 PM
I haven't tried it, but you could use an LPA1 from Ramsey Electronics to boost the signal from the CM15A.

http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=LPA1

It's not all that cheap, but if it solves the problem then it may be well worth the price.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: sphon721 on September 15, 2008, 05:14:55 PM
awesome, thanks for the link, i will def try one, the cm15a has a single conductor antenna, do you use the ground as the antenna shield wire?

Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Alan V on September 15, 2008, 05:34:54 PM
Quote from: sphon721 on September 15, 2008, 05:14:55 PM
awesome, thanks for the link, i will def try one, the cm15a has a single conductor antenna, do you use the ground as the antenna shield wire?


Yes.  When you open up the CM15A you will see an area on the PCB near the antenna wire labelled "Gnd".  Solder a wire to that point and use it for the shield.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Brian H on September 15, 2008, 06:44:48 PM
Just remember. Any modifications to the CM15A violates the FCC Acceptance. The amp can do up to 1 watt. You will be responsible for interference and violations.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: sphon721 on September 18, 2008, 02:25:19 PM
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Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: TrinityEB on September 19, 2008, 09:55:34 AM
Quote from: ChopperPilot on October 20, 2007, 07:11:38 PM
We installed a Sentinel camera outside a metal building which appears to be shielding the remote control signal.
We wired the video directly so that is not an issue.
Any suggestions on what we should do?

I was thinking of trying to remove the antenna from the sentinal and wiring an extension to it so that I can pass the antenna inside the hangar and have better line of sight with the remote.  Anybody ever move an antenna from a Sentinel?  How many wires run into the antenna? and can I just splice them onto a 3 ft extension to move it?

Sounds to me like he's talking about the CR15A handheld remote and NOT a CM15A.

ChopperPilot, there is a single brown wire inside the P/T base that functions as the antenna receiving signals from the handheld remote.  You can see pictures of it here...
http://www.lunaseamedia.com/upload/x10-mods/ninja_base.html.  Those pictures are for a Ninja P/T base, but from what I understand the internals are similar to the Sentinel and Vanguard cameras.

Another option if you're not comfortable with doing surgery on your camera is this:  The X10 Smart RF Repeater Extender SR731 / PSX01 .  It's tuned to the 310MHz signal that the remote operates on and intercepts/resends the signal.  Unfortunately it's been discontinued, but I was able to purchase one via eBay for use with a Vanguard camera we installed at our church.  The camera is mounted in the rear of the sanctuary about 10 feet high and I was only getting about 10-15 feet range line-of-site with the remote.  I positioned the SR731 about a foot or so away from the camera and now the remote works throughout the entire sanctuary.

- Frank.

Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: Jim Clark on September 19, 2008, 11:59:09 AM
TrinityEB

Thanks for the interesting link to the antenna mode for the Ninja. I wonder how well this worked at increading the range   ???
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: TrinityEB on September 19, 2008, 01:55:34 PM
Quote from: Jim Clark on September 19, 2008, 11:59:09 AM
TrinityEB

Thanks for the interesting link to the antenna mode for the Ninja. I wonder how well this worked at increading the range   ???

Good question.  I found the link entitled "ninja base antenna hack" in post #18 of this forum thread:  http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=126&st=15

I had considered doing a similar hack on our Vanguard once I saw that thread, but I had already ordered the SR731 and it worked so well that I decided to leave the Vanguard alone.  The remote now works consistantly anywhere within a radius of about 50-70 feet, where before I was getting maybe 15 feet max.

- Frank.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: sphon721 on September 25, 2008, 12:39:00 AM
hey Frank, how does that SR731 connect? does it just connect for power?

I tried a one watt RF amp tuned to 310 but it didnt help, I may do the antenna mods on our 4 sentinels and try one of these. For that antenna is there a ground, most antennas have to conductors, with only the one brown wire what do you do for the shield in a cable or on the antenna?

Thanks
chris
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: TrinityEB on September 25, 2008, 09:00:23 AM
Yes, all I did was plug the thing in, place it near the camera, and it just worked.
Title: Re: Remote Control Range Issues
Post by: HA Dave on January 07, 2009, 03:11:58 PM
Thanks to Jeff Charger of cocoontech post "ninja base antenna hack" (http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?s=02b6fa09695dfb5c6f986e0c96099825&showtopic=126&view=findpost&p=1572) where he shared information and pictures (http://www.lunaseamedia.com/upload/x10-mods/ninja_base.html) of his Ninja Antenna modification. And thank-you too TrinityEB for bringing it to our attention.

My problem was similar to that of ChopperPilot's (here (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13783.msg76513#msg76513)). I am attempting to control a Ninja at a long range using a CM15A. And BVC (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) voice commands.

This was the last of several Ninja [related] mods to accomplish this. To include a couple CM15A antenna Modifications (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=17240.msg94900#msg94900). I even modified the antenna of an X10 wireless camera (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=17109.msg94234#msg94234) I have tested the setup and I do know it works. As far as how long of range.. I don't know yet.

I soldered on the round-end from a TM7521 and glued it in a small hole I drilled into the base. I almost left too little of the red antenna wire... making it diffucult to insert the antenna's round base. The camera mounted on the Ninja is the one I modified earlier.