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🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: dax702 on December 08, 2007, 07:14:28 PM

Title: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: dax702 on December 08, 2007, 07:14:28 PM
I thought about the fact that a burglar might just walk up to the box and cut the power to the whole house so I had the idea to place a window/door sensor inside it which wasn't very easy to do. It did work but it does cause a lot of trouble and just weird things happening, I guess because of all the metal around it so I had to take it off.  And I actually broke the plastic piece off the thing trying to pull it off  :(   Does anyone have any suggestions for protecting the power from being cut off? My dad said it's illegal to put a lock on that box in case the fire department had to cut the power to the house in an emergency.  He said if the lock is on there, that it will void the insurance coverage... I have three power horn sirens and they're nice and loud and spread out through the house but if there's no power, then they're no good.
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: dax702 on December 08, 2007, 07:40:48 PM
So is there some way to make the window/door sensor inside the box work or is all that metal just going to keep causing trouble?
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: KDR on December 09, 2007, 04:54:51 AM
What area do you live in? Most fire departments will pull the meter to cut power to a dwelling. The meter has a retaining ring and has a seal ring that holds it together. Granted the seal ring is easy to break and remove.

When you say walk up to the box and cut power... what type of box are you referring to? Also you might call your insurance agent and ask them about putting a lock on it. Keep in mind that if it is locked and the fire department needs to get in it they will cut the lock.

(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: HA Dave on December 09, 2007, 01:40:06 PM
Many states allow for "breaker (or fuse) boxes" to be located outside. Although I have never actually seen that.. in the state where I live... I do know it is rather comman. You could always extend the wire to the magnetic (reed) switch, and locate the RF part of the door/window sensor to the inside of your home.

However.... to have a higher level of security... video monitoring would be a better deterrent. Deterring a break-in.... would be a much better alternative to foiling one.
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: dax702 on December 09, 2007, 02:17:15 PM
I'm talking about the main fuse box with all the various on/offs for the different outlets in the house. It's located right next to the meter on the side of the house, easily accessible to anyone who wishes to shut it off... Perhaps I should call the fire department to find out.. I live in Las Vegas, NV
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: Boiler on December 09, 2007, 06:35:11 PM
dax702.

I can't believe that you're the only one in the area with a security system and similar concerns.  Rather than guessing, why not call your fire Marshall and get the straight story.

Instead of trying to transmit RF out of your metal load center, why not try a hardwired solution.  You have access to power right at the box.  If it is deep enough, you could connect a PSC01 and a contact or magnetic switch to alert you it the door were opened. 

Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: dax702 on December 09, 2007, 06:41:28 PM
Ok, I understand the part about calling the fire marshall to find out, howver, you totally lost me on the next paragraph.  I'm a newbie - what is a PSC01?
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: Boiler on December 10, 2007, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: dax702 on December 09, 2007, 06:41:28 PM
Ok, I understand the part about calling the fire marshall to find out, howver, you totally lost me on the next paragraph.  I'm a newbie - what is a PSC01?

Sorry, that was a rather quick post.  I'm an Engineer, which means that model numbers and specifications roll off my tongue quicker than my children's names (not quite, but you get the picture).

The PSC01 senses contact closures and the presence of low voltage - in this case the source would be a mechanical or magnetically activated switch.  It can be programmed to send a On/Off signal though your powerline when a switch "changes state" (opens or closes).  For your configuration a switch would be rigged to "open" when your electrical panel was opened.  The PSC01 would be programmed in "disengaged" mode (activate on a contact open) and could send a ON signal through your powerline.

Here's a link PSC01 (http://www.x10pro.com/pro/pdf/psc01.pdf)

The PSC01 does require 110V power to operate.  Most electrical panels have a "panel output" socket next to, or close to the panel (sorry - I made the assumption that you had an outlet). 

Magnetic switches come in many configurations.  Your door/window sensor likely uses a similar magnetic switch.  Here's a few configurations -

Link: Magnetic Switch Contacts (http://www.smarthome.com/7113.html)
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: dax702 on December 10, 2007, 01:25:07 PM
man o man, you have no idea just how out of my league your post was. When it comes to electricity, I know how to flip a light switch and that's about it. I'm going back to my original plan about finding out if I can just put a lock on the box out there.. I don't know of any other [easy] way to secure that box aside from a motion detector keeping an eye on it..
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: Boiler on December 10, 2007, 02:09:05 PM
Quote from: dax702 on December 10, 2007, 01:25:07 PM
man o man, you have no idea just how out of my league your post was. When it comes to electricity, I know how to flip a light switch and that's about it. I'm going back to my original plan about finding out if I can just put a lock on the box out there.. I don't know of any other [easy] way to secure that box aside from a motion detector keeping an eye on it..

Not a problem dax702,

I have a habit of causing "severe eye roll" in both family and friends (many of them are engineers as well - The problem is most likely me).

As you indicated, the simplest approach is probably locking the panel.  If the "perpetrator" is determined enough to cut a lock, it's likely he's a pro and will be prepared for other security measures as well.

Let us now how things work out.

Boiler
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: tom j on January 02, 2008, 12:56:29 AM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on December 09, 2007, 01:40:06 PM
Many states allow for "breaker (or fuse) boxes" to be located outside. Although I have never actually seen that.. in the state where I live... I do know it is rather comman. You could always extend the wire to the magnetic (reed) switch, and locate the RF part of the door/window sensor to the inside of your home.

However.... to have a higher level of security... video monitoring would be a better deterrent. Deterring a break-in.... would be a much better alternative to foiling one.

I have to agree with Dave tighten up your perimeter defences first cameras are a relatively inexpensive deterrent although I don't know if I had it to do all over again if I would buy x10's unless you want to integrate them with AHP (Active Home Pro) also signs help just don't let anyone know you have an x10 system there's a simple work around that will allow someone to by pass your system with something as simple as a plam pad. You know even if they cut the power you do have a battery backup in the console which will give you hours of backup, actually the little alarm in the ds7000 will still also function and if you have it programed will still dial out! Most burglars also know that if you have a conventional system that most have battery backups and the alarm will still function even if the power is cut, check out this link for yard signs, you really want them to be persuaded to move on before they try to break in!

Tom j

http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductList.asp?p=2_1_1_1_0_0_143
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: HA Dave on January 02, 2008, 01:27:22 AM
Quote from: tom j on January 02, 2008, 12:56:29 AM

.............. you really want them to to be persuaded to move on before they try to break in.


Not to push my own thread.... but I have one that I hope will generate new ideas on keeping the bad guys outside (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=13351.msg74400#msg74400).

P.S. Thanks for the link tom j ... I really like the solar yard sign there!
Title: Re: What if burglar just opens electrical box and cuts power to house?
Post by: steven r on January 02, 2008, 02:43:41 AM
Quote from: Dave_x10_L on January 02, 2008, 01:27:22 AM
...I really like the solar yard sign there!
I did too and bought one a few months ago. Unfortunately it, like my solar walk lights, doesn't get enough Winter sun in the front of my house to do much. I'm looking forward to seeing how well mine works in the Summer.