X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: Ox40 on March 13, 2008, 04:53:17 PM
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I noticed on the website that Active Home (the original one, not pro) offered a patch to allow AH to run via a CM11A thru USB. This is a formal request for a patch that will allow AHP to use the CM11A via USB or COM. If you are really in it for the technology and not just to make money by making a perfectly good, brand new product obsolete, you will find a way to make it work.
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There is no patch. You need to get a USB-COM converter cable to use AH/CM11A under Windows XP if you want to keep using it. The other option is to upgrade to to AHP/CM15A. See http://www.x10.com/activehomepro/activehome-pro.htm for more info.
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No, that was not the question. I have a CM11A, brand new. I just got it. AHP can not use it. I am requesting that X-10 programmers find a way to keep their customers by providing backward compatibility. I do not wish to purchase yet another module to replace one that I already have. I'm sure it is possible to do. I have a computer running Windows 2000 Pro with a CM11A connected thru the COM port. I simply want AHP to work with the CM11A. I don't care how.
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X10 USA is not interested in making AHP backward compatible with the CM11A Serial interface. AHP was specificy written for the CM15A USB interface. Want to use AHP, use the CM15 at comes with it.
How did you get AHP without the CM15A? X10 will not sell it alone, it's a package deal.
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Ox40 there isn't much chance of it happening!
The CM11A can only do 1/2 the functions of the CM15A!
And nobody is going to want stripped down software,besides all the bugs aren't worked out yet ::)
Adding support for the CM11A would only add more issues! ::) :(
Not happy with AH? There are some very reasonable alternatives out there! ;)
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Ox40 there isn't much chance of it happening!
The CM11A can only do 1/2 the functions of the CM15A!
And nobody is going to want stripped down software,besides all the bugs aren't worked out yet ::)
Adding support for the CM11A would only add more issues! ::) :(
Not happy with AH? There are some very reasonable alternatives out there! ;)
What bugs aren't worked out yet? AHP by itself is stable (3.204 is the last version of straight AHP) and even though it's almost 2 years old, it works fine.
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Tuicemen: I have tried EVERY home automation software out there (the ones that I could find. Im looking for free or cheap too *smile*). None of them are at ALL acceptable. The only half decent one I have found is Mister House which has a horrid interface!
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Don't like AHP?
If you don't need cameras, and only control modules, AHP does the job. X10 makes add-ons for AHP for security, and other things, but if you are converting from AH, AHP will do everything that AH did, plus more.
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Dan Lawrence I never said AHP wasn't working, you your self have pointed out some bugs!
Bugs are little things that you'd rather not live with!
It's now February 6, 2008 and no news as to any upgrade to AHP (and if possible a firmware upgrade to the CM15A for the new DST dates)
One more "bug" to be fixed:
"Error: An error has occurred while
communicating with your AH USB interface. To
make sure that your timers and macros
continue to run, click OK to download your
settings to the interface"
This pops up every once in a while. You simply clear the interface and redownload all timers and macros.
An error poping up is stable? I could go on! ::) ;) :D
Ox40Have you looked at HomeDomination (http://www.homedomination.com/)? Many AHP users are\have moved on to this! A fancy looking interface does not make a good program although it makes it easier to over look its faults As Dan does! ;)
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About the interface - no, pretty does not make good. But ugly does not make good either. AHP interface is great, from what ive seen. AH is ok, but looks pretty Windows 95-y. The Mister House home screen looks _ok_ but the rest of it is just pure crap. I know that it doesnt have to look good to work good, but if I am going to have tablet computers sitting around the house - I want them to look good. Not just crappy text that is disorganized and impossible to navigate.
You guys are all getting this wrong. "Active Home" was the old one. It worked with the CM11A. "Active Home Pro" is the new one. I simply want to use AHP with the older interface. And for whoever said that the CM11A could only do 1/2 of the things that the new interface can - that is a load of crap! A CM11A + Wireless Transceiver Module = the new Active Home Pro module. I have the prior, not the latter.
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I am requesting that X-10 programmers find a way to keep their customers by providing backward compatibility.
They do. AHP can read in, and convert, a user configuration file made by AH.
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And for whoever said that the CM11A could only do 1/2 of the things that the new interface can - that is a load of crap! A CM11A + Wireless Transceiver Module = the new Active Home Pro module. I have the prior, not the latter.
Sorry to tell you, but they are all absolutely correct.
The old CM11A is totally incapable of doing most of the functions a CM15A can do. Just one example, is conditional macros.
That is just one reason why it would be ludicrous to attempt to use AHP with a CM11a. Most of the functions available in AHP would need to be totally disabled. And with that, a reduced function AHP would be of no advantage over simply using AH.
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Sorry to tell you, but they are all absolutely correct.
The old CM11A is totally incapable of doing most of the functions a CM15A can do. Just one example, is conditional macros.
That is only true if you are using it as a stand-alone module. I have a home automation server which handles the processing. Also, the extra storage space on the new Active Home Pro module is of no real importance to those of us who have a server. So far the CM15A has nothing over the CM11A. From what I read "The New Active Home Interface can monitor ALL 256 house codes." SO CAN THE CM11A!!! The inability to monitor more than one house code in AH was a programatic limitation, not a physical limit. I have found no real reason that the CM11A should not work with AHP.
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For the price of AHP (all plug-ins and the CM15A most times on sale for $49), why not spring for it?
You can still utilize your CM11A as a backup, although I doubt you'll want to go back to it! ;)
You'll soon see there are more things you can do with the CM15A then the CM11A if you'll use them all is another topic! ;)
Asking X10 to make AHP compatible with the older interface is like asking Microsoft to make Vista work with older PCs (it ain't going to happen)! ::)
And if by some slim chance they did you can bet it wouldn't be cheeper then $49 ;)
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...Asking X10 to make AHP compatible with the older interface is like asking Microsoft to make Vista work with older PCs (it ain't going to happen)!...
I was trying to think of a good analogy and that pretty much sums it up. My CM11A is in a box in box somewhere. I wouldn't consider going back to it. Someone said the CM11A does 1/2 of what the CM15A. I would say it can't do a 1/4 of what the CM15A can.
BTW... Someone asked and I didn't catch your response. How did you end up with a copy of AHP and not the CM15A that comes with it?
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Ox40 Never did say how AHP was obtained without the CM15. I know X10 USA won't sell it that way, but some third part outfit might.
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Ox40 Never did say how AHP was obtained without the CM15. I know X10 USA won't sell it that way, but some third part outfit might.
So if the copy of AHP did come from a 3rd party, it makes you wonder what the 3rd party is doing with all the CM15As that it's suppose to be including with the software. I wonder if a 3rd party cheated him out of a CM15A or sold him a copy of AHP that can't be registered or updated. Also doesn't the AHP software have to downloaded? I've never seen a copy on CD.
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It is possible they have seen the free EU version that comes with the SmartMacros plug-in included!
The problem is it doesn't contain any North American modules and you still need a CM15, A or EU :(
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I looked at Ox40's profile and it shows his last post time as 3:30 PM so apparently he's in the Pacific Time zone, so we can rule out the European version.
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BTW... Someone asked and I didn't catch your response. How did you end up with a copy of AHP and not the CM15A that comes with it?
X10 support provided a link to s software download page that included, among other things, AHP.
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X10 support provided a link to s software download page that included, among other things, AHP.
Which isn't much use without the required Registration Code.
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BTW... Someone asked and I didn't catch your response. How did you end up with a copy of AHP and not the CM15A that comes with it?
X10 support provided a link to s software download page that included, among other things, AHP.
How about posting the hotlink you received? That way we can see for ourselves.
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I looked at Ox40's profile and it shows his last post time as 3:30 PM so apparently he's in the Pacific Time zone, so we can rule out the European version.
Not true Dan! You don't have to be in Europe to have the EU version. I have it, and have test run it myself with a CM15A! ;)
Unless for some strange reason those in the pacific time zone can't access European sites or mine! ::) ;) :D ;D
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How much did he pay for JUST the software. I think you got ripped off.
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Dude, I did not pay anything for the software! See for yourself!
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=4651.0
The second link to the 'update' installer is actually just the whole product installer. I installed to a blank directory and had a working copy of Active Home Pro up and running. From what I have seen, nothing DOESN'T work. I can add modules and do everything - except actually send commands because of my lack of a CM15A. And no, I never got a prompt for a registration code.
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O I see. So why did you get the software then are you planing on geting a interface.
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I got the software because I thought it was backward compatible with the CM11A - no physical or electronic limitation exists that makes it impossible to make backward compatible. The CM11A is the same as the CM15A if you are using a server - for all intents and purposes. Sure, it's response to RF might be faster, but other than that, it has nothing over the CM11A. Guess I will just have to design a driver that creates a virtual USB device then translates commands to the COM port. Just thought such a task would be easier and faster for the people who designed AHP. But, they aren't interested in customers, they are interested in sales.
Say you buy a brand new car. Then, the next day, you find out that that car can not drive on the roads because someone put a couple of plastic cones in front of your driveway. But, you can buy a BRAND NEW car that has a special CONE DEFLECTOR (and a third row of seats for the children - even though you don't have any) so that you can get over those cones! This is the same situation as CM11A vs CM15A. A customer-based company would remove the cones to keep old customers. A sales-based company (X10) would push the BRAND NEW 'car' upon everyone.
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...I did not pay anything for the software! See for yourself!
http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=4651.0
The second link to the 'update' installer is actually just the whole product installer....
What version is your software? That looks like a link from way back in time far, far away when X10 was actually making updates to that software.
Latest US version is 3.204 unless you have OnAlert and then it's 3.206. <-- Corrected. Thanks Puck.
I can see how you would be a bit frustrated. Did you find the link at the forum yourself? If so, I congratulate you on your search skills. If someone at X10 referred you there, then they either didn't realize you didn't have the the CM15A or they appear to of shot themselves in the foot by sending you there.
The main problem with having AHP control the CM11A is that the CM11A is incapable of supporting most of the features that AHP has to offer. Other than possibly some 3rd party programs, the AH software gives you control of pretty much everything that the CM11A hardware is capable of doing.
To expand on Tuicemen's analogy, even if Bill Gates gave you a copy of Windows Vista you wouldn't be able to run it on a computer 4 years old. Older computers just don't have the hardware needed for Windows Vista.
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...Say you buy a brand new car. Then, the next day, you find out that that car can not drive on the roads because someone put a couple of plastic cones in front of your driveway. But, you can buy a BRAND NEW car that has a special CONE DEFLECTOR (and a third row of seats for the children - even though you don't have any) so that you can get over those cones! This is the same situation as CM11A vs CM15A....
Not really. While I truly sympathize with you situation, expecting AHP to be backward compatible to the CM11A is like asking a hydrogen fueled car to be able to be also backward compatible and run on gas. At some point you have to give up backward compatibility for progress.
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Latest US version is 3.204 unless you have on alert and then I think it's 3.207. (Someone will correct me I'm sure if I'm wrong.)
With OnAlert it's 3.206. ;)
3.207 is the one we are all waiting for. :D
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Hehe, the funny thing is that you keep saying the CM11A is incapable of doing the things the CM15A does. If it is not the device - but the server making the 'decisions', the actual memory and capabilities of the device are irrelevant. The conversion from CM11A -> CM15A is like the conversion from Gas -> BioDiesel. Not a ton changed in the engine itself.
And about the Windows Vista analogy, Sure, it could run on older hardware. You just couldn't use all of the spiffy new features - like the new GUI, etc. But yes, it could run on older hardware.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to show that they have put no effort into backward compatibility of their product. And, it is possible to make backward compatible. I have been engineering software for a while now - nothing I have seen has shown this statement to be false.
If you bought a couple of hundred dollars of new products then X10 came out and said 'We have changed our protocol, and nothing new will work with anything old.', you would be upset too. ;) (A little extreme, I know, but it attempts to get the point across.)
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Hehe, the funny thing is that you keep saying the CM11A is incapable of doing the things the CM15A does. If it is not the device - but the server making the 'decisions', the actual memory and capabilities of the device are irrelevant. The conversion from CM11A -> CM15A is like the conversion from Gas -> BioDiesel. Not a ton changed in the engine itself.
And about the Windows Vista analogy, Sure, it could run on older hardware. You just couldn't use all of the spiffy new features - like the new GUI, etc. But yes, it could run on older hardware.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to show that they have put no effort into backward compatibility of their product. And, it is possible to make backward compatible. I have been engineering software for a while now - nothing I have seen has shown this statement to be false.
If you bought a couple of hundred dollars of new products then X10 came out and said 'We have changed our protocol, and nothing new will work with anything old.', you would be upset too. ;) (A little extreme, I know, but it attempts to get the point across.)
The CM11A did not do what the CM15A is capable of. PLUS the serial CM11A give certain motherboards hissy fits with the COM posts, driving XP users nuts. The only certain way to get it to work was the USB to COM converter cables.
BTW, the version you got of AHP is version 3.198, which came out in December 7,2005. That makes it going on three years old and AHP is now at 3.204 and 3.07 with one of the plug-ins.
As I posted before in this somewhat useless thread, X10 is NOT going to make AHP backward compatible with an outmoded interface that they no longer make In fact, last year they cleaned out the warehouse and sold AH/CM11 under a different name to people who didn't know it was an outdated product.
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CM15A can can see security modules! No extra hardware needed
CM15A can send and receive RF! No extra hardware needed
CM15A controls Pan N Tilt bases (ninjas) no extra hardware needed
CM15A can control Commander II and VCR Commander (not just A1 on/off commands) no extra Hardware needed
True if the unit is connected 24/7 to the PC and the software running making the decisions then they come close!
Both units can do the same things with PLC!
And about the Windows Vista analogy, Sure, it could run on older hardware. You just couldn't use all of the spiffy new features - like the new GUI, etc. But yes, it could run on older hardware.
Sorry but not with out major upgrades, and the I'm sure you'd get tired of waiting for it to load! why would any one pay over $200 for that?
If you bought a couple of hundred dollars of new products then X10 came out and said 'We have changed our protocol, and nothing new will work with anything old.', you would be upset too. (A little extreme, I know, but it attempts to get the point across.)
MicroSoft does this every 5 years! and the upgraded software isn't free ::)
If X10 made AHP backwards compatible, what would you be willing to pay for it?
Ox40 have you tested the EU version of AHP since the CM11 is still big in Europe and AHP was redesigned for the europen market maybe it will work with the CM11 ???
Though I have my doubts! ::)
Worse case you can as you stated
I will just have to design a driver that creates a virtual USB device then translates commands to the COM port
But since the protocol has changed you'll have to convert that too! :(
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I got the software because I thought it was backward compatible with the CM11A - no physical or electronic limitation exists that makes it impossible to make backward compatible. The CM11A is the same as the CM15A if you are using a server - for all intents and purposes.
What a load....The CM11 dates back to the early 1990s! Two interfaces use completely different processors and completely different coding.
While you are at it, why don't you demand that Microsoft make Vista run on a 386?
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While you are at it, why don't you demand that Microsoft make Vista run on a 386?
Ahhh... there may be a future for my old Commodore PET after all. ;D :D
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...you keep saying the CM11A is incapable of doing the things the CM15A does. If it is not the device - but the server making the 'decisions', the actual memory and capabilities of the device are irrelevant....
The CM15A is capable of making "decisions" while disconnected from a computer. If all you need is software to control the functions in your CM11A, then the original AH software is a much better choice than trying to hack a solution to make AHP work. The end result, if (and it's a really big if) successful, would not be able to anything more than the original software and likely be subject to more bugs. If you want more features controlling your CM11A than AH gives you, then look at some of the 3rd party software.
Bottom line, as I see it anyway, is...
- Possibly waste a lot of time hacking a solution that most likely not work as well as the original AH software,
- Get a USB to serial cable and use the old software,
- or Bite-the-bullet and buy AHP with the CM15A and all the plug ins that are free with it.
Personally I know just enough programming to know I would easily spend way more than $49.95 of my time if I were to attempt to make AHP work on a CM11A.
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. I just hate to see intelligent people waste their time.
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I'm getting the feeling that arguing with Ox40 is like arguing with a 5 year old - they won't listen to you unless they want to. Very logical statements have been made by several posters in the three pages of this thread, Ox40 just brushes them off and marches to his own drummer. He downloads an old version of AHP, wants X10 to make it backdated to work with an outmoded interface, claims he has an unused CM11A in the box and won't download AH 1.42, still available on the X10 downloads page.
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I'm getting the feeling that arguing with Ox40 is like arguing with a 5 year old
Sorry, I expect straight answers which I just recently received:
CM15A can can see security modules! No extra hardware needed
CM15A can send and receive RF! No extra hardware needed
CM15A controls Pan N Tilt bases (ninjas) no extra hardware needed
CM15A can control Commander II and VCR Commander (not just A1 on/off commands) no extra Hardware needed
That is exactly what I was looking for. Not "It just won't work."
I did download AH, and I remarked that it's interface, though better than most, is still horrendous.
The reason I 'brushed them off' is because the answers were either irrelevant or just non-problem-solving.
I now know _exactly why_ it has not been designed to be backward compatible - and I thank Tuicemen for that answer. Before this, it was my understanding that the CM15A was basically a CM11A Spoofed up with a Transceiver module 'attached'. Now I know that this is untrue.
Oh, and yes, I do 'march to [my] own drummer'... I am a drummer. ;-)
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So, are you going to get AHP 3.204 and the CM15A USB interface or keep fooling around with the old AHP you downloaded?
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Hehe, the funny thing is that you keep saying the CM11A is incapable of doing the things the CM15A does. ... And about the Windows Vista analogy, Sure, it could run on older hardware.
OK, then, is you are so sure, please install Windows Vista on a Radio Shack TRS-80 or even an Apple ][ (or choice which), and post back here just how successful you have been.
Hopefully, after you have a "go" with that, you will have a better appreciation of what we are trying to explain about just how different the CM11a is from the CM15a.
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Hopefully, after you have a "go" with that, you will have a better appreciation of what we are trying to explain about just how different the CM11a is from the CM15a.
I would still argue that the CM11A <-> CM15A is more comparable to a Windows 2000 computer and a Windows Vista computer.
But yeah, I will deal with my CM11A + AH for now, until I find the need for the CM15A.
Thanks for the help!
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My final comment: PC technology is always changing. Just look at printers. Printers used to be always printer port connected, now it getting hard to find one, almost every printer today is either USB or ethernet connected, even cheap ink jet ones. Even in the CM11 days, PC's were built with only 25-pin ports, so your CM11 cable had to have a converter plug to connect the 9-pin cable to it.
If you have a X10 system with no cameras, AHP and the CM15 do the same job. When I got AHP and the CM15A, I was able to create a keypress macro that turns off all lights on three housecodes with a single keypress of A5 OFF.
If you want to keep using AH and the CM11A, it's your choice.