-
I know this topic is likely to get me a few Unhelpful dings! but hopefully users will contribute!
Since guests can't give Karma ratings and newbies must have a number of posts under their belt first now the numbers of dings have dropped!
But many Users like me, have been wondering not so much who gave the ding but why?
It has been so long since I gave a ding (only 2 or 3) that I can't remember the exact reasons!
I since stopped giving them when explain to the users didn't stop their actions! ::)
I'll attempt to list some reasons why I think one might give a unhelpful rating!
Hopefully other users will jump in with reasons they have dished them out!
[li]Rude replies
[/li]
[li]Telling a user to look else where for help
[/li]
[li]Telling a user you don't need what they are looking for, or offering to the community[/li][/b] No one needs to know that!
[li]Dinging a user because the information they supplied didn't work[/li] [/b] This isn't a reason unless reply is totally off the wall! ::)
Ask, sometimes it is a matter of trial and error and a sequence one has to follow to determin the real issues!
Just because the original poster was helped but the info supplied didn't help you there maybe another step or two to check! ;)
[li]flaming X10[/li][/b] I also don't agree with this one but users do hand them out for this! :(
[li]It appeared user replied just to hear themselves type[/li] [/b] Originally Suggested by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com)
[li]Thought the user worked for X10[/li][/color] Originally Suggested by -Bill- (of wgjohns.com)
[li]Out of shear frustration[/li][/color] Originally Suggested by x10challanged
[li]The Post appeared to be spam[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by steven r
[li]A mistake (a slip of the fingers)[/li][/color] Originally Suggested by Dave_x10_L
[li]Just disagrees with the reply[/li][/color] Originally Suggested by Puck
[li]The person obviously didn't spend the time to read the OP and all the replies so far![/li][/b] Originally Suggested by Puck
[li]Answer was way of the mark (didn't apply)[/li][/color] Originally Suggested by dave w
[li]Answer was to go search for the answer[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by dave w
[li]You didn't solve their problem first time around.[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by KDR
[li]one picked apart the question instead of answering it[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by Walt2
[li]One emphasized the posters dumb mistake![/li][/color] Originally Suggested by Walt2
[li]Just to see the RANTS it started.[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by Brian H
[li]eBay users unfamiliar with this rating system.[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by JeffVolp
[li]Confused users name fore someone else[/li][/b] Originally Suggested by Priority Support
[li]Tit for Tat (Received a PM stating they dinged me so I dinged back)[/li][/color] I received this from a user who wishes to remain unanimous Shame on the user that did it(you know who you Are!)
[li]Told user to start a new thread instead of replying to an old one[/li][/color] Again from A PM from one wishing to remain unanimous
[/list]
Hopefully this topic will be helpful to those that find themselves getting repeatedly dinged but that's only if we all contribute to this thread!
-
Tuicemen,
I agree. After literally years of posting here, I still find one of the most frustrating things to be having people give you an "unhelpful" without any explanation whatsoever!
I admit, I am guilty of this too. :(
I do try to post and explain (most of the time) why I have given a helpful or unhelpful.
I think you covered most of the reasons I would give an unhelpful, but to elaborate:
If you don't know what you're talking about... don't just post to "hear yourself type".
If you don't understand the question, or the question is too vague, ask questions to fill in the blanks... don't just post a BS answer like it is "gospel"!
Don't be rude to the person who posted the question because they don't write in "good english". Not every X10 user lives in an english speaking country, and many who do, are victims of a poor education system (those of us in the US especially!). Many use a online translator like Babel Fish in an attempt to communicate with us "stuck up english only types"! Give them a break!
On the other side of the coin:
If you posted the question and didn't give enough information, don't give an unhelpful to the people that answer by asking for more information!
Don't assume you are talking to an X10 employee and give an unhelpful just because you're pi$$ed off at X10! With few exceptions, the people answering you are most often just fellow X10 users that have "been there, done that" and are nice enough to volunteer their free time and share their knowledge!
That's my "2 cents" on the subject. Hope it was worth your time. ;)
-
Thanks for your input Bill
I just find it hard to believe that out of 47 viewers thus far only you have added anything!
Surely I didn't cover every possible reason with the exception of yours Bill
Or did I people? ::) ???
Come on people here's your chance to give users reasons why you give unhelpfuls!
Post your reasons even if they are already listed!
You don't have to state who you gave them too, But It will help everyone understand the consenses of the members!
-
I have been on this forum for only about 5 months. Personally I think the "unhelpful" should go away.
Tuicemen - for your over 2500 posts I know you should have at least 1800 helpfuls! between you KDR, Bill, Davex10, and a couple others I can't remember right now you have helped me tremendiously with your posts throughout the forum.
As far as unhelpful dings I really think people who give them for the most part are simply frustrated with the X-10 components they are working on and look for a way to vent this frustration. So if a post is helpful let us know, if it isn't maybe the question needs to be posted more clear. I am guilty of not providing enough information in my questions for anyone to understand what I am looking for but honestly I don't always know how to ask the question to get a helpful answer, if that makes sense.
Keep up the good work! I know you get frustrated just like we do.
-
Rather than reopen a big soapbox on the issue, I encourage others to read previous discussions on the subject. That said, I personally only give out an occasional "helpful" for exceptional ideas posted. I also post why I gave the helpful for the poster and others to see. Sort of a bonus helpful. I reserve the "not helpful" for spammers that should know better and they don't get a comment.
In order of preference, this is what I'd like to see...
- A one line system like eBay for feedback
- Eliminate the "not helpful" leaving only the "helpful" option
- Eliminate the ratings all together.
...Don't assume you are talking to an X10 employee and give an unhelpful just because you're pi$$ed off at X10! With few exceptions, the people answering you are most often just fellow X10 users that have "been there, done that" and are nice enough to volunteer their free time and share their knowledge!...
While X10 employees may read this forum it is extremely rare to see feedback from them here. Many of us here that have already struggled "to get the T-shirt" are more than willing to share our experience to help others.
-
I just received UNhelpful number 18 (it had been 18 before... but then backed-up'ed to 17... which I don't understand). I really have no way of knowing from where or who it came. But since I haven't posted much.... I think (want to believe) it may have been an accidental (meant to be helpful) click HERE (http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=15054.msg83869#msg83869) by a newbie (full member) that said "thanks".
I have received two emails [PM's] in the past from new members that have explained they did accidentally click the unhelpful (while meaning to click the HELPFUL). Interestingly.... I think I may have also received a helpful around the same time... maybe from the same post. Which would sorta support the idea that a mistake was made.... and a correction attempted... with a helpful. Unfortunately I don't track my helpfuls as closely as the UNhelpfuls.
But I can't help the fact that my "feelings" on the matter are there is someone... some member or members that has taken it upon themselves to hand-out unhelpfuls. And to be honest.. I really don't give a rats-backend what their rating system is. I don't believe I have ever attempted to be anything OTHER than helpful. I don't think ANY of the handful of regular posters here ever intend to be negative in there postings.
The only dings I have ever given were for posts that implied the reader needed read and search more... and post less. Even then... I think 3 or 4 dings are all I have ever given. I am pretty sure.. I have never dinged any member twice.
-
My $0.02
I used the Unhelpful DING twice (as I can recall) as a relative newbie to the forum. I found there was no benefit to that and just decided to do my best to provide the information requested in the topics where posts were made that were not helpful to the original topic and, if need be, I question the statements made. Some replys clearly shows the poster did not fully read the original post and all its associated replies, but I'm reluctant to call it Unhelpful. Providing a correction is more benefical to the thread than a DING.
I'm sure there are some who give an Unhelpful everytime they read a post they don't like; but my guess is the majority come from frustrated new users who don't like the answers to their question (especially when they think we are X10 staff). To those, all I can say is good luck trying to find better help somewhere else (and that includes from the X10 company itself).
Now having said that, I'm also confident that frustrated new users will not even read this thread because it has nothing to do with solving their problem. So I don't see any improvement happening on this front until X10 removes the Helpful/Unhelpful rating all together. People who truly come here seeking help (as opposed to complain) know when a reply is helpful or unhelpful; they don't need a number by someones name to point it out for them. If the numbers were not there, then when someone disagrees with a post their only option would be to reply (instead of the DING & Run).
-
I agree with Puck. I think this thread indicates some of us "old guys" put too much importance on "Helpful" / "Not Helpful". I have dinged one responder because that responder frequently does not read carefully what the poster is asking and consequently provides answer way off the mark...that is not helpful. But over all I just don't see it adding much value. Apparently X10 does and it's their board.
However I don't agree with Davex10 last paragraph, if I understand it.
I tell posters where to search and/or what to search for, after that it is their responsibility to do the leg work to answer their questions. If they ding because I don't have the time to regurgitate the same information day after day ("noise", "phase", "repeater" blah, blah, blah) and hand them the information on a silver platter, I could care less. I just don't have the time but still want to offer help.
-
...I just don't see it adding much value. Apparently X10 does and it's their board....
They did remove the ratings for a short time and as soon as I thought someone had come to their senses the ratings reappeared. :(
-
Thanks for your responces thus far guys!
It is nice to know that some members have admitted mistakes and the ding was a slip of the fingers! Was that only after confronted?
It is funny that users I know for sure hand out unhelpfuls haven't replied! I know they've been on since I originally posted! ;)
They did remove the ratings for a short time and as soon as I thought someone had come to their senses the ratings reappeared. :(
It was an administrator that removed the Karma rating plug-in for the board but it was upper management that ordered it back ::)
Maybe they have a magic number of helpfuls they'd like to see!
It was stated that users missusing the unhelpful setting would have privileges removed and I know of a couple that had that happen to!
Perhaps if every member had the same ratings management would see the uselessness of this plug-in!
So from here on in I'll give every member a helpful for each new topic they start! As that HELPS the forum grow!
And I find that HELPFUL! ;)
Wonder how long that will last till I'm told to stop? ::)
-
There are so many people on this forum that go out of there way to be helpful. When I see all the "not helpful's" they have, well, I just don't get it.
I belong to a few forums, and this one, by far, has the most helpful, non-confrontational members of all of them. I have only seen one member here, that seems to want to start something from time to time. But that clearly is the exception. All the rest of you, are very respectful, and EXTREMELY helpful.
If someone tries to help you with a problem, but can't supply a solution, I do not believe they deserve an "not helpful".
At least they tried. They could have just remained silent.
I think removal of the "not helpful" , option is a good idea.
-
I have to agree with puck and the others here that made the statement that unhelpfuls come from frustrated people searching for answers.
Most people when they get their X10 gear just plug it in and expect it to work! As soon as they find that they can't solve the problem within a few minutes they come here and post. They don't want to search or read, they just want their light or whatever, to come on or go off. Bottom line is they want a "do this and it will work" answer. If you tell them to go search and they will find the answer you will open yourself up to an Unhelpful from a frustrated, mad person. Once they calm down... get the system working they may start reading other posts and that starts the learning process. I think that is why we see so many duplicate questions.
In most cases an Unhelpful only means you didn't solve their problem first time around. I would like to see it taken away because I don't see the value of it. If it stays it would be nice if the person dinging would PM that person so that the dingee could change things and maybe improve.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
-
While this doesn't happen much here, sometimes answers are unhelpful if they...
Pick at the question itself. The person asking the question used the wrong color, misspelled a word, misused an acronym, or something.
Go find the answer yourself. Tell the person they should be using the search function. Of course, simply answering the question would have taken less typing. We sometimes forget that many times, one really needs to know the answer, in order to know what the best, targeted, keywords would be for a search.
Your too stupid. The need to publicly point that the person did something really dumb, which is why they are having a problem.
-
I have dinged maybe two or three myself. I now feel it is not a usefull tool and don't use the feature.
I thought the forum software limited a rating to one a day for a user. Like I really thought two threads from the same posted both deserved a helpful. I was rejected on my second helpful to the same poster for a day if memory serves me.
I rarely even look at mine and also know that in earlier days some dings; where given by some; to see the RANTS it started.
-
....in earlier days some dings; where given by some; to see the RANTS it started.
So that's what they're for... to give trolls something to do. Thank for clearing up it up for us. I see their true purpose now. ;)
-
I believe part of the problem is due to the way they X10 implemented the rating system. People familiar with eBay click on the rating number to access the underlying feedback. I actually incremented an unhelpful myself before I found out this system just increments the number. That unhelpful was on X10's "Deal News", and I wanted to find out why anyone would have a problem with special offers.
The bottom line is I believe the many of the "unhelpful" counts come from eBay users unfamiliar with this rating system. They mean nothing.
Jeff
-
My biggest gripe is I've got 41 negatives and never a PM as to why. How can the be reset to zero?
-
How can the be reset to zero?
Walt -> Walt2 ;D
-
My biggest gripe is I've got 41 negatives and never a PM as to why. How can the be reset to zero?
An administrator can reset the number, as can some of the other permission levels. I don't imagine that there's anyone left at X10 who has the access, knows how, or cares at this point. Almost makes me wish I had set this account as admin before I left...
-
They can be reset by admin and they can also be identified as to who gave them. Admin very seldom will share this info and I agree with that policy.
Maybe what needs to be done is reset everyones counts and we all start from zero again.
(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)---(http://www.bdshost.com/X10/lpup.gif)----KDR
-
I don't imagine that there's anyone left at X10 who has the access, knows how, or cares at this point.
As soon as we get someone that takes an interest in the forums from X10 they all of a sudden stop working for X10! ::) ???Almost makes me wish I had set this account as admin before I left...
I wish you had too! ;)
They can be reset by admin and they can also be identified as to who gave them. Admin very seldom will share this info and I agree with that policy.
Maybe what needs to be done is reset everyones counts and we all start from zero again.
Resetting does no good just ask Dan! ;)
The Karma plug-in could be valuable but not in its current state! ::)
I wish the X10 Brass could see that! >:(
-
Anyone who has spent ANY time at all on this forum knows who the HELPFUL users are and who the self-important nitwits are -- you don't need numbers to tell you that. I, for one, have learned to completely ignore the ramblings of certain users -- especially those with authoritative sounding user names. ;)
Personally, I'd like to see the negative numbers go away and just keep the positives.
-
I think the numbers should be "per post", and not "per user".
IMHO, the numbers should be an indication of whether an answer (or many times a simple educated guess) helped or not.
Many times, if one uses the search function, you will find several replies/answers. It would be nice to know which ones ended up working, and which ones didn't.
-
Tuiceman Calm down way ARE you worrying about you -17, how come no one worries about my -79 (guess estimation after this post)
Actually I don't Give a dam about the negatives! ::)
This post was started for members like your self that get dinged without any apparent cause, and you have no Idea why!
Create to explain some of the reasons why! And an attempt to generate some user involvement!
Unfortunately this thread has gone off topic and users have stopped posting Why they give\gave Unhelpfuls!
Hopefully it gets back on track! ;)
I'll edit my original post to reflect the reasons users have/do post!
-
Thanks Tuiceman, some people do it out Of spite too. I recommend only posting what your sure works not was x10 says.
-
I've received a few PMs on this subject and I've decided a Poll may help those with high unhelpful counts see where they are coming from!
Here's your chance to be unanimous (again) and say WHY without drawing attention to yourself!
If you have another reason Post or PM me and I'll see about adding it!
Reviewing your old posts and editing offending material/bad addvice won't reset your unhelpful but may stop the number from climbing! I've suggested this to a number of users in PMs of which only one has actually did anything! ::) So watch the poll ;) and the results!
-
Sorry to take so long to get on this one, but I've been very busy. Yes, Tuicemen, I have read this and talked to you, but not posted.
To answer the burning question, here are my reasons for dinging:
1) Advice from those who know nothing about the subject (B.S.)
2) People just spitting back info from the wiki without quoting it as such (M.S.) [more of the same]
3) Posters who just like to tell us they have no problems in the same situation without offering any help at all. (P.h.D)
[piled higher and deeper]
(They're just wasting space on the forums, or trying to increase a post count)