X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: PajamaGuy on May 09, 2008, 08:12:33 AM
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AHP- all modules, DS7000.
Arming Home with a Security Remote sets flags 2 & 3, and phantoms P2 & P3. ArmedLight macro triggers on P2 and turns on SuperSocket D5.
Disarming from the same remote clears flag 2&3 and P2 & P3. ArmedLight macro triggers on P2 OFF and turns off the D5.
Sometimes it works ;D - Sometimes not >:( This morning, i watched the macros fire as I pressed the buttons on the remote. They fired when they should have, but either the FLAGS 2&3 were flipped, OR the P2 & P3 phantoms flipped, but not both. If I moved P2&P3 to the beginning of the macro, they flipped and not the flags; and when I moved the flags to the beginning, they set/cleared, but not the P2&P3?????
Yeah, I stuck in a delay (2 sec) and moved it around, but didn't seem to matter.
So I dumped the CM15a, batteries & all, and the last time I tried, it worked. The macros triggered by the remote are ELSEs (but visually, the correct one(s) fire when they should) and they're all stored and run from the PC. -
x10 is SO MUCH FUN!!!!! :-*
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My number 1 reason for using 2 CM15As: Macros calling Macros.
Do you have House Code 'P' set to Transceive? I've experienced the same thing when calling a macro from a macro and found that if I Transceive the called macro's house code, it seemed to improve the firing of those macros. (Zero logic here.)
One other thing to look at is command order of everything the CM15A is trying to do. When you call the P2 & P3 macros, the CM15A will start executing the instructions there at the same time it continues executing the original macro. I'm sure it drops commands when trying to do two things at once, so you may have to strategically place delays in the called macros.
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My number 1 reason for using 2 CM15As: Macros calling Macros.
I'm with you Puck, but I'd like to add a caveat.
My number 1a reason for using 2 CM15a's: Macros calling Macros via RF. Keep the powerline clean.
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Macros calling Macros via RF. Keep the powerline clean.
Nice.... and less chance of getting a corrupted signal to the other CM15A.
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...macro calling a macro via RF..... :P Jeez, I'm having a senior moment - How do you call a macro from within a macro via RF?
And while I'm asking - How would you distinguish between the 2 CM15a's - like when you said you get 32 flags instead of 16 - ahhhhhhhh - the macros in CM15a #1 have their own 16 flags, while he macros in CM15a #2 have their own - I think I just solved that one for myself...
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...macro calling a macro via RF..... :P Jeez, I'm having a senior moment - How do you call a macro from within a macro via RF?
PajamaGuy,
Since the CM15a can receive and send RF, I use a RF transmit from one unit to call Macros on a second CM15a. If you have Smartmacros, the RF transmit is located under the macro "Advanced Functions" tab.
The example below is from one of my kitchen sensors. I use two sensors to monitor activity in the kitchen. I use it to turn lights in the room off after a period of inactivity (lights must be turned on manually).
1) CM15a #1 receives and "filters" the incoming RF from the motion sensors. The flags and delays prevent multiple triggers (the motion sensors often send multiple on transmissions).
2) CM15a #1 calls macro D6 via RF on CM15a #2. Actually I have a macro (B1 and B3) for each motion sensor. Each performs a RF call to D6.
3) CM15a #2 executes a 10 minute delay (macro D6) and then turns off the lights in the kitchen.
4) Since the D6 macro on CM15a #2 is re-entrant, multiple calls to this macro (additional motion in the room) reset the timer back to 10 minutes. If motion continues the lights will stay on indefinitely.
Hope this helps,
Boiler
BTW, regarding the "senior moment" - I find that I'm quite a bit happier since I've attained "greybeard status". When something happens to tick me off on Monday, chances are I will have forgotten all about it be Tuesday.
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;D.... Oooooooo, I like it! And I've been looking for a reason to buy more x10 $tuff. I think another CM15a and a V572RF32 are in order.
Thanks!
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Boiler, How about a screenshot of D6, please... and does D6 have to have a module (phantom), or can the RF call fire the macro?
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PajamaGuy,
There's really not much to the RF receive macro (below). It simply starts the 7 minute delay and then transmits a X10 off command. If a RF transmission is received before the 7 minute delay has completed, the timer resets and waits an additional 7 minutes.
I did this to prevent excessive X10 communication on the powerline. Currently, when you use dummy modules, each macro call gets transceived to the powerline. The RF macro call to the second CM15a prevents any X10 from being put on the line (as you can probably tell, I'm a nut about this). Most of the devices in my home are now Insteon based. The D6 off command is interpreted by a Insteon controller which tests to see if my Kitchen lights are on, and if so, slowly dims them to an off condition.
Hope this helps,
Boiler
...oops, missed your second question. On the second CM15a, I have D6 identified as a motion sensor. The macro D6 is called directly from the first CM15a.
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Thanks - and I think I'm getting there...
...but - 1. I thought repeated calls to a macro only "stacked" them - in other words, calling D6 would start the delay, if 3 minutes later another call happened to D6, ANOTHER instance would run, but the first instance would still send the E1 OFF - 4 minutes after the second call, and the second instance would send another OFF 3 minutes later. What I'm hearing you say is that the second call causes the first instance to vaporize (which is the way one would like successive calls to a timing macro to work). Stated another way, if 100 RF-D6=ON commands were sent, with a maximum time interval of 6 minutes between them, only one E1-OFF would happen 7 minutes after the last RF-D6-ON was sent. Correct? (Is that what you mean by re-entrant?)
Or is it because it's an RF call? I love this, because I've done the same thing using flags and phantoms - this is soooo much more simple!!
2. I'm not being picky, but when you said The D6 off command
- didn't you mean The E1 off command?
While I'm asking - because it's an RF-command, even though the V572RF32 (with PSC05) received (and re-transmitted) it, it would NOT be converted to a PLC, right? Would the same hold true when a TM751 receives it?
Finally (for now), does this only work if you have multiple CM15a's? Would an RF call work if D6 resided on the same CM15a as the calling macro? Especially if one had an RF repeater?
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I did this to prevent excessive X10 communication on the powerline. Currently, when you use dummy modules, each macro call gets transceived to the powerline.
Is this true even if the housecode for the dummy module is not transceived by the CM15a?
...oops, missed your second question. On the second CM15a, I have D6 identified as a motion sensor. The macro D6 is called directly from the first CM15a.
Is it the fact that you have D6 identified as a motion sensor which causes the timer to reset instead of the macro calls being "stacked", as PajamaGuy asked? I like using the built-in timer in the motion sensors to turn off a light after a period of inactivity (no AHP macros required!), but I've been looking for an easy way to implement this same scenario (i.e., an occupancy sensor) using multiple motion detectors. (I haven't invested the time/effort to do this with flags and phantoms like PajamaGuy did...)
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Thanks - and I think I'm getting there...
...but - 1. I thought repeated calls to a macro only "stacked" them - in other words, calling D6 would start the delay, if 3 minutes later another call happened to D6, ANOTHER instance would run, but the first instance would still send the E1 OFF - 4 minutes after the second call, and the second instance would send another OFF 3 minutes later. What I'm hearing you say is that the second call causes the first instance to vaporize (which is the way one would like successive calls to a timing macro to work). Stated another way, if 100 RF-D6=ON commands were sent, with a maximum time interval of 6 minutes between them, only one E1-OFF would happen 7 minutes after the last RF-D6-ON was sent. Correct? (Is that what you mean by re-entrant?)
Ok, I left out a few subtle points. I rechecked these to make sure I had my facts correct.
Example macro (B1 ON)
Delay 10
Set D6 ON
Delay 10
Set D6 Off
Here's the catch -
- If I start this macro (B1 ON) and send another B1 ON command within the first 10 second delay, the macro will "re-enter" and restart the 10 second delay. You could extend the macro indefinitely by executing the B1 on command 9 seconds apart
- If I send a B1 on command after ~12 seconds (after the first delay statement has completed), the macro will execute a copy. I can again extend the delay within the copy by resending B1 On commands within the first statement window (delay 10) although I'm not sure why you'd want to do this
Actually, the above example is a prime candidate for using flags to "lock out" subsequent calls. If you want a timed sequence of events to occur after a X10 event, flags should be used to prevent re-triggering the macro.
In my example above (previous post), I'm allowing multiple calls to the D6 macro cause the delay to re-start.
Or is it because it's an RF call? I love this, because I've done the same thing using flags and phantoms - this is soooo much more simple!!
Nope, nothing to do with the RF. I've used the same re-entrant macro for both RF and X10 (powerline) transmissions.
2. I'm not being picky, but when you said The D6 off command
- didn't you mean The E1 off command?
- The D6 (RF) call is made from CM15a #1.
- The D6 (RF) is received by CM15a #2 and starts the D6 Macro
- After 7 minutes CM15a #2 executes a E1 off command (powerline)
While I'm asking - because it's an RF-command, even though the V572RF32 (with PSC05) received (and re-transmitted) it, it would NOT be converted to a PLC, right? Would the same hold true when a TM751 receives it?
I'm not very well versed on the VT572. I'm not sure if it is capable of repeating RF. I believe that the VT572 can be programmed not the transceive RF onto the powerline (similar to the CM15a).
If your RF transmission is at the TM751 Housecode, it will transcieve to the powerline. I don't use them for exactly that reason.
Finally (for now), does this only work if you have multiple CM15a's? Would an RF call work if D6 resided on the same CM15a as the calling macro? Especially if one had an RF repeater?
Sorry, I've tried exactly the same thing you're thinking. The CM15a cannot call itself via RF. I tried using my repeater (not currently installed) and found that it didn't register any RF communication from the CM15a.
Boiler
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Is this true even if the housecode for the dummy module is not transceived by the CM15a?
Yep. A call to a dummy module puts X10 on the powerline. The transceived housecode options only stops RF commands from being put on the powerline.
Is it the fact that you have D6 identified as a motion sensor which causes the timer to reset instead of the macro calls being "stacked", as PajamaGuy asked? I like using the built-in timer in the motion sensors to turn off a light after a period of inactivity (no AHP macros required!), but I've been looking for an easy way to implement this same scenario (i.e., an occupancy sensor) using multiple motion detectors. (I haven't invested the time/effort to do this with flags and phantoms like PajamaGuy did...)
No, it's that fact that the macro is being re-triggered while the first statement (the delay) is still being executed. If you call the macro after the second statement starts, a copy (stacked macro) will be started.
Boiler
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Very helpful stuff, Boiler. Thank you!
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Thanks Boiler!
(you're making my head hurt!)
My biggest problem is getting my DS7000 to receive all my sensors. I may have to add another SR731. Everything (DS7000-related) has been working fine until about 2 weeks ago, now even close sensors sometimes don't register.???
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PajamaGuy,
Now I'm a bit confused. I thought you were having flag problems with the CM15a? How does your DS7000 fit in?
If your RF receive was working up until two weeks ago, I wouldn't think an additional SR731 would be required. Unless you just installed a metal wall in your house, RF range should not be the problem.
I don't know much about the DS7000, but I can help with the SR731 and CM15a. Could you post some code (your macro problem) and give a bit more description on your security layout?
Boiler
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Sorry - 2 different issues.
The basic problem is the range on the CM15A RF Reception. At times yesterday, I had to hold the sensor against it to get it to receive (I think the antenna has an internal loose or almost broken connection. So, I first got an SR731 and stuck it upstairs and everything was OK (as ok as x10 gets :D)
I then started having issues with the DS7000 NOT receiving sensor RF, so I moved the DS7000 AND the SR731 - and I'm still in the prosess of "repositioning" them. (WAF is very low)
I read this board all the time, and it seems the experts (you included) all use the whole-house tranceiver, so I ordered one - should be here today!!! :o
Once I get the dedicated PC to "see" all activity via the monitor, and get the DS7000 to receive all the sensor RF, I'll continue refining macros.
I'm going to a business conference so I'll be off the boards until next weekend. - But I still have a bit of confusion.
In talking about RF Commands from AHP - and when I read the multiple CM15a's have their receivers disabled - do the RF commands actually run the powerline?
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Sorry - 2 different issues.
The basic problem is the range on the CM15A RF Reception. At times yesterday, I had to hold the sensor against it to get it to receive (I think the antenna has an internal loose or almost broken connection. So, I first got an SR731 and stuck it upstairs and everything was OK (as ok as x10 gets :D)
I then started having issues with the DS7000 NOT receiving sensor RF, so I moved the DS7000 AND the SR731 - and I'm still in the prosess of "repositioning" them. (WAF is very low)
Since you're not having problems with 2 receivers (CM15a and DS7000) I'd begin to suspect a source of RF interference. Any chance you have a palmpad or other rf device that's stuck in the couch or low on batteries (flooding your house with RF)? Do you see any unexplained RF in activity monitor?
Unfortunately, RF interference is rather tough to isolate.
I read this board all the time, and it seems the experts (you included) all use the whole-house tranceiver, so I ordered one - should be here today!!! :o
Actually, I don't have a VT572. I know people who do and it appears to be a rather capable device. I use the little CM15a for all the RF in the house (no security).
In talking about RF Commands from AHP - and when I read the multiple CM15a's have their receivers disabled - do the RF commands actually run the powerline?
I'm not sure I understand this. The only way that I know of to "disable" a CM15a receiver is to open the device and physically disable the circuit.
Disabling a transceived housecode within AHP prevents the CM15a from translating the received RF and placing it on the powerline. It does not prevent the CM15a from actually receiving the RF.
I'm currently running both of my CM15a's with the transceive option disabled on all housecodes. Both devices still receive the RF and use it to trigger macros. These macros may then put a X10 command on the powerline.
Hope that answers the question,
Boiler
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Actually, I think it's Puck who's disabled his dual CM15a's - -my question is, when you send an RF command from AHP, or from 1 CM15 to another, is it really RF over the air (what does the transmitting) or is it a PLC from one to the other?
And after 2 days and a bunch of hours since I got the 572, I forgot my own advice - get the CM15a as far from the PC as possible. While/after hooking the 572, i layed the CM15 on the table between my laptop and my Linksys wireless router - DUH....dummy!!!! After taking my wife to get her nails done (to improve the WAF), it dawned upon me - and I got out my 16' USB cable and moved the CM15a to the other side of the room. Things seem to be much better.
My DS7000 seems to be receiving all its sensor input, overnight will tell. Oh, I almost forgot. The townhouse has METAL doors, after a shot of Dewar's, it occurred to me to extend the DS10a's wire as far as possible - moving the unit away from the door - seems to transmit farther now!
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Actually, I think it's Puck who's disabled his dual CM15a's - -my question is, when you send an RF command from AHP, or from 1 CM15 to another, is it really RF over the air (what does the transmitting) or is it a PLC from one to the other?
I only disabled the receiver in each of my CM15As... the transmitters are still active (they are separate circuits inside). Yes it is an RF signal that gets sent with an RF command.
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So then how does a CM15a receive/use the command? I'm confused as to how you use RF commands? (sorry for being thick)
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So then how does a CM15a receive/use the command? I'm confused as to how you use RF commands? (sorry for being thick)
When the CM15A receives an RF Command, it demodulates it into its X10 signal. The signal can now be use it to trigger a macro and, if set to transceive, send it out as a PLC signal. The macro itself does not know the difference between an RF or PLC generated signal (unfortunately.. and a requested change).
So there is nothing different in your macros, etc. for using a received RF signal.
Since the CM15A has a separate transmitter, you can use the RF Functions to transmit an RF X10 Signal to another device (like a 2nd CM15A or any other transceiver) instead of sending the signal out as a PLC.
E.G. If you have a TM751, the CM15A will have to send an RF X10 command in order to activate the internal appliance module. As well, you need to send an RF command to a VCR Commander to have it start a recording if your motion sensors do not trigger it directly.
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Since the CM15A has a separate transmitter, you can use the RF Functions to transmit an RF X10 Signal to another device (like a 2nd CM15A or any other transceiver) instead of sending the signal out as a PLC.
Sorry, but if both CM15a receivers are disabled, how do either of them RECEIVE an RF command?
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Sorry, but if both CM15a receivers are disabled, how do either of them RECEIVE an RF command?
I think the confusion may be the 2 different ways mentioned in this thread about communicating betwen 2 CM15As.
It was Boiler who talks between the 2 CM15As with RF. You are right, I can't / don't because my receivers are disabled. I can however still transmit RF signals from my CM15As to my DS7000, VCR Commander and TM751s.
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That clears it up - I was confusing you'alls installations.
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transmit RF signals from my CM15As to my DS7000
Can you transmit sensor signals? or just Arm commands.
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transmit RF signals from my CM15As to my DS7000
Can you transmit sensor signals? or just Arm commands.
Just the arm signal from an OnAlert installed remote. ;)