X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Other Automation Systems => Smarthome & Insteon => Topic started by: Duck69 on August 04, 2008, 11:39:02 AM

Title: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Duck69 on August 04, 2008, 11:39:02 AM
 ??? I am planning to switch to Insteon. I have bought a starter kit with the USB 2414U.
The booklet states not to use a cable longer than 10', 6' recommended. Not to plug it into a power strip or line filter. Don't plug other PLC transmitters into the same outlet as the Controller. How can I get around this ? I have a small HO with only 3 outlets on 1 circuit with 17 things and 3 surge suppressors plugged in. 3 of which are computers along with 3 external HDD, Modem/Router, VOIP, Fax/Printer/Scanner, 3 wireless phones etc. In addition, in the closet there is an outlet in the light base, I presently have a surge suppressor with a CM15A, V572 & PSC05 plugged into that. As you know, I use Apple computers and there is no software for the V572.
Since the 2414U is PLC; What do I do about RF ? Do I need to get a EZX10RF X10 All-House Transceiver and INSTEON Bridge ?
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Brian H on August 04, 2008, 05:55:56 PM
Surge suppressors with noise filters can absorb both X10 and Insteon Line Signals. Since your CM15A and PSC05 to interface for the V572 are in a surge strip now and working. Rough guess it it doesn't kill the line signals. Though it may attenuate them somewhat.

What protocol RF are you talking about? X10 or Insteon? The EZX10RF is an all address X10 receiver like your V572 with a feature that allows you to link a certain X10 RF Command to a Insteon module. By default it sends X10 RF signal back to the powerline. It can be programmed to ignore some codes to send back on the line.

The 2414U has no problem sending and receiving X10 powerline signals along with Insteon powerline signals. Most Insteon Modules can also have an X10 Primary Address in them and some an X10 Scene also.

How far is the CM15A's USB cable running. The 6' best 10' max maybe a known to work distance and longer may work just if it didn't "We told you 10' didn't we?"

Did your kit include any Access Point Phase Bridges that also receive Insteon RF Device signals?

I would download all Full Users Manuals from Smarthome and Simplehomenet if you don't have them.

Did you choose a software program to run the new system yet?
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Duck69 on August 06, 2008, 07:51:15 PM
Duh ! I got 2 Access Points in the kit I bought.  :'
First. I simply replaced the CM15A around 20+ ft. away with the 2414U. Can't connect.
Yes you told me so.
Next I plugged the 2414U into the same outlet as my computer (no other choice) and used a 6' USB cable. Can't connect.
Running an extension cable from a different circuit, into the HO can work.
But then, in order to avoid spousal abuse  >*<, I'll have to run a new circuit to the HO; Which I'm not inclined to do at this time.
It must be the "Tinkerer" in me to want to change out my X10 as it's working just fine.
Well, maybe I'll change things this fall when the grandkids are back in school, things slow down a bit and Beth is calmer.  >!

Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Brian H on August 07, 2008, 06:49:43 AM
The 2414U and CM15A are completely different animals. Any software used to access either of them will not access the other one.
So just swapping one interface for the other and not software to go with it. The new interface will not work.
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Duck69 on August 07, 2008, 12:07:26 PM
Indigo software works with either one.
Before swapping them out. I changed the interface settings in Indigo to the 2414U.
However, I'm going to their forum and see if there are any issues and will post again later today.
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Jsnlong on August 07, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
I wonder if  they make the Indigo software for PC not Mac? Would be a nice software since it can control multiple platforms the price is a bit scary also. I seen it for about 180. Microsoft must make it  rofl
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Boiler on August 07, 2008, 03:20:36 PM
Indigo software works with either one.
Before swapping them out. I changed the interface settings in Indigo to the 2414U.
However, I'm going to their forum and see if there are any issues and will post again later today.


This is really beginning to sound like an interface problem (or a bad 2414U).  Your Indigo software should recognize the 2414u.  When you plug in the PLC, does the "green LED" flash in response to X10 communication?  If not, have may have a bad unit.  You may also want to try performing a factory reset (can't remember the procedure).

Past that, while running only one controller per outlet is optimal, I violate that roughly 360 days a year.  As I'm sitting here I have a PLC, PLM and my CM15a all plugged into a powerstrip (no filters).  Many Inteon people actually advocate "piggybacking" a accesspoint on the PLC to improve range (I'm not one of these).

From your previous posts it appears that you also have XP installed on your machine.  If this is correct, there are some freeware (InHomeFree by KenM) and trial (PowerHome) sofware titles that might get you up and running.

As a last point - what hardware did you get with your kit?  I wasn't able to find a kit with the 2414u and accesspoints on the Smarthome site.  Depending on what hardware you received, we may be able to configure a manual system (switch to switch - no PLC) to check things out.

Keep us posted,

Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Duck69 on August 07, 2008, 08:07:36 PM
Indigo is made by Perceptive Automation and it's made for Apple computers only.
Yes, I have Windows XP installed on my Mac. I just use it to screw with my Windoze friends.  rofl
Oh, sorry, I mean Windows. >!

No offense meant, just joking.

OK, here is the scoop:
I unplugged and disconnected the CM15A, V572Ab etc..
Next I cleared an outlet and the 2414U is the only thing plugged in there.
It flashes and works when I use an remote.
I just can't connect to the interface (Computer to 2414U).
I have tried 3 different USB 6' cables.

Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Brian H on August 08, 2008, 06:26:10 AM
Did anyone have problems reported in the Indigo forums? I know one software manufacturer was having problems with the 2414U and was pushing the 2412S Serial PLM. That said it has no downloadable storage area and needs a 24/7 computer running.
I personally had problems with the 2414U USB model that where not in the 2414S Serial version. Mostly slow communications to the interface from the computer. Seems Smarthomes SDM3 and Direct X Input functions don't like each other. :' The problems did not stop it from working just was slow compaired to the serial one. Showed up in my case after going to DirectX 9c. rofl

I don't think this will effect the no connection thing, but some reports show the latest units didn't act the same with X10 commands. The problems where fixed by reloading the Timercoreapp12. Smarthome maybe shipping them with a different coreapp in them now but again I don't think it would stop you from connecting to the interface.
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Duck69 on August 10, 2008, 09:41:55 AM
It turned out other Indigo users were experiencing the same problem with the 2414U.
This Friday 8/08/08 an update to Indigo was released, which fixed the problem. As soon as I installed the update, it connected.  :)%

I feel somewhat better now.  :)

I was/am somewhat frazzled as the wife decided to let our 15 YO grandson paint the den & me leave him alone.  :'
 #:) There is paint everywhere he touched and sat; In the HO, living room, kitchen, bathrooms and the den looks like sh&%.
Now I have to clean it all up and re-paint the den.  :o
What was she thinking  -:) ?
Thank you all for your replies & allowing me to vent a little.  >!
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Brian H on August 10, 2008, 10:21:13 AM
:)% Good news; glad the update was the fix.
Title: X10 and Keypadlinc
Post by: mthom12 on January 03, 2009, 09:40:17 PM
Hi All,
I just bought the Keypadlinc and want to use it to monitor my x10 switches. The question I have is if I turn my x10 at the switch will it activate the keypadlinc button I have programmed with that address? I also have the ActiveHome Pro. For some reason it does not always register if a switch is on or off. Any help would be great.
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Jsnlong on January 03, 2009, 09:48:19 PM
NO X10 switches are not two way. The local manual control of the switch does not send any kinda of signal. NOW unless you have a older switch I don't know about but that is one big thing with x10 that's its not 2 way for the most part

two way= the x10 modules and switches to not confirm that they are on or off.
Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: ranecurl on October 09, 2009, 02:11:29 AM
My CP290 failed so I've gone to a the USB 2414 controller for an all X10 system. It mostly works OK, but is less reliable than was the CP290 - that is,
some actions do not occur now and then. I do have an active phase coupler near the house power panel. Is there a way to use the Insteon radio feature to put
X10 signals into more remote points of the house circuits? Do I understand correctly that the "Access Point" modules do not do this?

Title: Re: X10 - Insteon ?
Post by: Brian H on October 09, 2009, 06:22:42 AM
Smarthome-Smartlabs didn't describe the dual signaling well in their literature. Many where confused.

There is a misconception on the Insteon Signaling. Insteon switches and modules do not use RF between them; only powerline signals.
Only a few use RF. Like the Access Points for phase coupling. TrigerLinc; Thermostat Adapter; motion sensor and a few others.

Also none of the Insteon devices will retransmit X10 signals; only Insteon ones.

Correct. Access Points do not send X10 signals to each other, only Insteon Signals.

I used a 2414S Serial Version ( 2414U was to slow for me) and had downloaded timers in it. Sometimes it would just skip a timer or the whole days worth. A check of the data showed no actions scheduled for that day. I believe the X10 signal level from all the Insteon Controllers is lower than the X10 controllers. That could also be a factor in some of the communications problems.

I now have a ISY99i controller. With a 2412S PLM.