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🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: PajamaGuy on September 25, 2008, 08:40:27 AM
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(Nice "cottage" Tuicemen!)
I think my AHX file is hosed, and I'm into X10 for 10 months now - so I'm re-writing my entire system. I've been running AHP (with all Plug-ins) on an XP Laptop because of the Vista/VA11 issue, but its USB power is limited and I think the competition between the VA11 (and 4 cameras) and the CM15 is causing the CM15 to "miss" some activity.
So what I'm thinkin' is hook one CM15a and all the video to the Laptop, and one CM15a to the Vista desktop and run the bulk of timers & macros on the desktop with RF calls to the Laptop for the video functions.
Example: Back-door motion sensor triggers a macro on main system that sends an RF trigger to the Laptop to record video.
So long as I pay attention to Monitored and Transceived HCs, I should be OK, right? Plus, I get 32 FLAGS and 32 Monitored modules.
...any suggestions? Ideas? Cautions?
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...any suggestions? Ideas? Cautions?
As you are probably aware, do not use the same AHX file for both systems.
Make sure you define all modules (even dummies) on both even if only one system will have a macro associated with it. This is just to ensure you know what house/unit codes are in use. Plus it gives you the ability to trigger the other systems macro.
If the same trigger is used on both systems, be aware of macro execution timing issues to prevent collisions.
Dedicate a single house code to be a communication channel between systems. I.E. Helps organize 16 channels to trigger a macro on the other system. This also provides a good way to share or set/reset a flag that is common to both systems.
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Dedicate a single house code to be a communication channel between systems. I.E. Helps organize 16 channels to trigger a macro on the other system. This also provides a good way to share or set/reset a flag that is common to both systems.
I was thinking of isolating 1 HC on each (K for Laptop, J for PC) as in monitored on each and sending an RF signal as a trigger.
e.g. Laptop has a macro K1-ON to start a vidcap of camera 2. And have the PC send an RF K1-ON to a K1 phantom. Laptop monitoring K.
I was thinking about using RF commands (and NOT transceiving them) to cut down on the PLC traffic.
And yep, I've read most of what you've written on keeping the definitions in both places - and I'll use different AHXs.
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(Nice "cottage" Tuicemen!)
Thanks that's where I plan to have my second CM15A although it won't be attached to the PC!
Puck probably has the most experience with this so following his advice will lead to a reliable setup! ;)
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I was thinking of isolating 1 HC on each (K for Laptop, J for PC) as in monitored on each and sending an RF signal as a trigger.
e.g. Laptop has a macro K1-ON to start a vidcap of camera 2. And have the PC send an RF K1-ON to a K1 phantom. Laptop monitoring K.
I was thinking about using RF commands (and NOT transceiving them) to cut down on the PLC traffic.
And yep, I've read most of what you've written on keeping the definitions in both places - and I'll use different AHXs.
PajamaGuy,
I like the idea of using the RF trigger to cut down on powerline activity. One point though - when using the "RF Command" you don't need phantom/dummy modules. You can simply send the RF to any address/house code without having a module defined at that location.
Boiler
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Thanks!
Does anyone see anything wrong with having a lot of defined, but empty & not uses modules?? Like phantoms. For instance, in my "Phantoms" room, I have 16 AM486 sitting there. 10 of them are named "P7 (empty)", "P8 (empty)", etc. I have other rooms with empty, but named lamp modules.
Is that a "drain" in the system?
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:)+
Hi folks, just an added question as with myself am considering looking into 2 CM15A's, one for the main floor area including outside cams and sensor and the other is for the futer basement area, entertainment area, office, bedroom. In my planning of my layout I have some fear having RF issues due to remotes and sensors over kill. If the two units are organized as
PajamaGuy is planning and having 2 separate files, could there be an RF storm, clashing or drowning each unit from each other? If I was able to have the basement area on a filtered separate small circute panel, concentrate my plan with one area with more RF and the other with more PLC or a balance on both? Or just use one CM15A and go to the MAX on it ???. 32 Flags. how does the system understand a Flag so as to tell the difference from Flag 3 on one unit to Flag 3 on the other unit?
Thanks
BaBaLou.
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Thanks!
Does anyone see anything wrong with having a lot of defined, but empty & not uses modules?? Like phantoms. For instance, in my "Phantoms" room, I have 16 AM486 sitting there. 10 of them are named "P7 (empty)", "P8 (empty)", etc. I have other rooms with empty, but named lamp modules.
Is that a "drain" in the system?
I do this for all my remotes before I start assigning tasks to them. There is no drain on the system because modules themselves do not get downloaded to the CM15A, only associated macros do (if any).
If the two units are organized as PajamaGuy is planning and having 2 separate files, could there be an RF storm, clashing or drowning each unit from each other?
You could if you send a trigger to the other unit that in return sends a trigger to the first at the address that sent the original signal.
If I was able to have the basement area on a filtered separate small circute panel, concentrate my plan with one area with more RF and the other with more PLC or a balance on both?
This would really be your call on how you want to do it. The CM15A is polite with respect to PLC signals, so if both are using that it shouldn't be an issue. You shouldn't have any problem with using RF on one or both either. Just make sure both CM15As do not transceive the same house codes; even though they are polite, no good came come from it.
32 Flags. how does the system understand a Flag so as to tell the difference from Flag 3 on one unit to Flag 3 on the other unit?
It can't tell the difference from one unit to the other; 2 units just gives you the ability to do more than 16 things that require flags by splitting the tasks. I do however use dummy modules to set the same flag on the 2nd unit when it gets set on the first; for example, my daytime/night time flag and my security armed flag. These are 2 flags I use that will affect the execution of macros in both units.
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Thanks Puck, As I grow my system with more sensors, Lights and automation as well as soon i hope IconRemoteII's, cams and so on, it give me the sense I may go over board on RF and PLC signals. How can the newer XTB and the V572AB play a part into the picture.
BaBaLou
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I have both an V572 and an XTB-IIR - which is another stimulous for re-writing.... I can't wait for Puck to answer you!
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Thought so PajamaGuy , I guess I will be getting a lecture for this one. Better get ready then.
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I use the V572RF32 with my systems and I disabled my RF Receiver circuits in both CM15As so that I only have the one transceiver. The CM15As only listen and react to PLC signals. This has worked for me, so if you choose to use 2 or more transceivers just make sure there is no potential for collisions or multiple triggers.
I suspect you would use the XTB for boosting the CM15A's PLC output, so that should interface with the system ok; with 2 CM15As you may need two(?)
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I disabled my RF Receiver circuits in both CM15As so that I only have the one transceiver.
Why only the receivers? Maybe I don't have enough coffee yet, but:
1. Wouldn't NOT transceiving any housecode on the CM15 do the same thing?
2. Now you can't send RF from one CM15 to the other.
3. So you have no Security Sensors installed as their own modules (no way for their RF to get to AHP)- you'd have to use phantoms, and you wouldn't be able to use their "state" as a condition.
4. OnAlert plug-in would only allow you to ARM the DS7000, and once AHP showed ARMED, no DisArm signal (RF) would ever get to AHP.
Puck - either you mis-spoke, or my head's un-screwed. ???
And yes, the XTB not only boosts the PLC's from a CM15, but it also couples the phases, and takes the V572's output.
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I have to keep in mind that the V572 can receive and send RF, I know, I know that's why they call it a Transceiver. How do you assign HC or UC to the V572, software or dipswitch?
I disabled my RF Receiver circuits in both CM15As
Sorry Puck, is that a physical disable (grey wire antenna inside) of the RF Receiver in the CM15A, or just in setting.
2. Now you can't send RF from one CM15 to the other.
Isn't sending RF from one unit to the other should be avoided and instead use PLC or Flag or Macros to communicate to each unit if needed. so to avoid an RF storm.
3. So you have no Security Sensors installed as their own modules (no way for their RF to get to AHP)- you'd have to use phantoms, and you wouldn't be able to use their "state" as a condition.
4. OnAlert plug-in would only allow you to ARM the DS7000, and once AHP showed ARMED, no DisArm signal (RF) would ever get to AHP.
Isn't the V572 supposed to handle Alarm system Module and is able to assign UC to those modules so On-Alert would still communicate with them.
Q. to PajamaGuy, in your prior pic of your setup http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=16218.msg89366#msg89366 (ftp://http://www.x10community.com/forums/index.php?topic=16218.msg89366#msg89366) where is your PSC05 connected or RU using one?
To get result for me will be by getting on board with the XTB-II and V572, have been putting off and then only using one CM15A to see what the results will come of this and maybe then I can see if the need for another CM15A is needed.
Addition Question off topic.
To all those who may know the answer if I can ask this. Does the new remote have touchscreen?.
Thanks
BaBaLou.
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The 572 does NOT transmit RF - it Transceives RF to PLC, not the other way.
Sending RF cuts down on PLC storms.
According to WGLDesigns, the US V572's do NOT transceive Security Remote(s) RF. Some have reported the Canadian model does.
The V572 plugs into the XTB-IIR
(... no touchscreen...)
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1. Wouldn't NOT transceiving any housecode on the CM15 do the same thing?
No.
2. Now you can't send RF from one CM15 to the other.
Correct. I don't have my set up based on that mode of intercommunication.
3. So you have no Security Sensors installed as their own modules (no way for their RF to get to AHP)- you'd have to use phantoms, and you wouldn't be able to use their "state" as a condition.
Correct. On one CM15A I have them set to the monitored house code; so I can use their state as a macro condition.
4. OnAlert plug-in would only allow you to ARM the DS7000, and once AHP showed ARMED, no DisArm signal (RF) would ever get to AHP.
I only use the OnAlert plug in for one purpose... to send an ARM signal remotely to my DS7000.
As I stated in another thread, my security remote signals do get transceived by the V572RF32.
Sending RF cuts down on PLC storms.
Outside of the V572RF32's occasional self-generated A1 or A11 PLC storm, I have no issue with PLC storms due to this method of intercommunication. With all the DS10As & M16As I have installed, I choose the PLC intercommunication route because of the polite equipment; RF is not polite and more often then not just the hourly check-in RF signals of the DS10As cause other RF signals to be interfered with. With PLC signals I have no interfence when I send one.
How do you assign HC or UC to the V572, software or dipswitch?
Software allows you to set & store the configuration. You can go to their website and download the software to see it.
I disabled my RF Receiver circuits in both CM15As
Sorry Puck, is that a physical disable (grey wire antenna inside) of the RF Receiver in the CM15A, or just in setting.
I disable it completely using a disable input on the RF Receiver IC. I have this connected through a switch so I can enable it for tests.
P.S. The new ICON Remote does not have a touch screen.
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You folks are something else. God only know where I would be today if it wasn't for this place. IMO X10 would be a different place without people like yourself helping newbies like myself to hang on and go for the ride and never had to look back.
:)% :)% :)% :)% :)% :)%
A round of Thanks to all.
BaBaLou.
now where is Jeff.... ::)
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Update:
The V572RF32 arrived, had to install a serial port on the computer and downloaded the software on XP system, crashed on the lap Vista. Unplugged all TM751s, assigned ,all security sensors as appliance modules (past thread). System is still laid out in a test site in the corner of the basement.
Without a doubt the V572RF32 was very easy to setup including the great ability to assign a new HC/UC to any security sensors as well as Active eye sensors. It delivered as promised and blew the RF range to never never land. I have just today set it up and still looking for any problems it may cause in my scenario.
Still have other issues with coupling and strength in the PLC signal but the XTB-IIR should take care of most of that. Unit is on order, soon to arrive. CFLs and other filtering is still being tested and they may and even maybe not be an issue, Jeff did share a few neat MODs and Ideas to help me with that obstacle if it does occur.
BaBaLou.
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BaBaLou - I removed my motion sensors from the V572. I'd rather be able to just exclude them, but it seems that if you Capture a device, you cannot exclude that address - but my point is/was there was just too much RF coming from the motion sensors. Under constant motion the MS10A's seem to transmit every few seconds, even though not registering with AHP, the transceived PLCs were way too many. Maybe it's just me, or maybe it's my repeaters.
If you would please, capture an MS10A and transceive it's RF to some PLC. Then position the MS10 in your office so that it picks up your motion as you surf the web, (or whatever). Let me know how much PLC traffic (from the V572) you get in relation to the RF captured by the CM15A.
Thanks!
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PajamaGuy, will try a test later in the week, will also try it by the weekend with hopfully the XTB and do a comparison. I do have the intention to completely disconnect the RF receiver from the CM15. So far the V752 is noticeably picking up all RF and PLC and isn't missing a beat.
I do have 3 MS10s working well at the business. Constant motion all day, walking and sitting. The Activity reports its normal trigger every 45 sec or so, there is a also an Active eye picking up motion at an open door and setting of a chime with every motion. Non of those activities seem to storm each other and all do their jobs 99% of the time. 100% at night. It does make for a long Activity Monitor list, each day averages about 8000 lines. Have mine set to 50,000. no problems there so far. All this with no V752 thou, no need for any mod to the business location.
BaBaLou.
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PajamaGuy,
Tested one MS10A while sitting at the desktop computer with the CM15 on the other side of the wall facing me. Setup with XTB is layout similar to yours.
The first one shows the RF coming in, being received by the CM15, seen as the line with RF making up a total of 3 lines per on signal or off.
The second shows the same movement at the laptop in the gargage and there is shows the 2 lines per signal.
Those are similar readings to my setup in the business with 2 MS10As in high traffic areas, all seem very normal to me for that kind of movement and never has interfered with any other activities in my setup. Hope that was what you are looking for.
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BaBaLou - thanks, but I'm looking for MA14A data. And no big deal. Your test confirms my MS10 data.
I just about finished re-configuring and documenting my systems. In order for my CM15A (Main-PC) to receive MS10A RF from the most distant sensor, I need 2 SR731's. That causes a lot of RF traffic. However with my V572 and my XTB, I may be able to eliminate one of them, and use the transceived PLC instead. My DS7000 intermittently looses contact with some of my DS10A's unless the central SR731 is active.
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PajamaGuy,
Sorry for the mix up, can easily do a test with both the active and eagle eyes. But from what I can see from the Activity Monitor, is about the same per each signal with the MS14A. Just more often since the eagle eyes reset faster than the MS10As.
As for the range, I have had so far no problems having the V572 picking up everything in the house as well at outside my house. Remotes and such have nothing less than 100 ft. of range. So far there are 5 active eyes, 3 eagles, 4 MS10A plus 9 DS10As. All come in nicely and non so far have stepped on each other and there has been not one missed action so far by any light or sensor. Still don't have the DS7000 installed yet, just letting the AHP take care of that so far.
I think from my point, using the SR731 is only going to give you more problems. You already have the XTB repeater and with the range of the V572 you shouldn't be going wrong with that only.