X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: originalevil on January 15, 2009, 01:29:09 PM
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Hi guys!
Next week, I'm ordering a pile of noise filters, the V572RF32, and the XTB-IIR to take care of all of my powerline signal issues. I'm also wiring up some extra outlets for relocating the PC/cable modem I use to run AHP, plus some motion detect floodlights. I plan to run video cables (non-X10) and a few other tricks at the same time.
I also want to add external sirens. I've considered setting up outlets in weather-resistant enclosures for powerhorns, but I think I'd rather just go with something like this:
http://www.coolsafetyproducts.com/site/898652/product/482%20052%2067
This model is hard wire, but it also comes with a power cord for a few dollars more.
Which X10 module would you use to control a siren like this? I want to trigger the sirens from AHP macros. Would a WS647 handle it, or should I wire an outlet outside anyway, and then use an SR227 or maybe an AM466 plugged into a standard outlet?
Or maybe you'd wire a custom power cord on the siren, long enough to fish inside the garage to an outlet that isn't exposed to the elements?
I'm open to any suggestions at all.
If the siren works out, I'll end up with three mounted outside the house, plus I will toss one inside the garage. I have enough powerhorns to cover inside the house.
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The WS467 or any wall switch won't work. X10 has added soft start to to them so when you turn lights on the slowly ramp up to full bright..... Plus its a dimmer switch..
I think the better method wold be a AM466 or a Socket rocket with plug adaptor . (Dave_x10_L uses them allot he will most like post about it here lol ) I don't see why the siren has to be hard wired or why you would buy their power cord. I would just add my own power cord to it.....but also remember electric codes don't allow extension cords to run in walls. So maybe near the horn you could have a locked junction box or something...... but if the garage is not drywalled might not matter
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I didn't realize that you couldn't run the cord inside walls. That's a bummer.
Of course, your point about the soft start is a bigger bummer.
Thanks for your help! I don't knwo what us newbies would do without you guys.
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The electric code reads:
NEC ARTICLE 400 Flexible Cords and Cables General 400.1 Scope.
This article covers general requirements, applications, and construction specifications for flexible cords and flexible cables.
400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
Flexible cords and cables shall not be used for the following:
(1)As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2)Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings, suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3)Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4)Where attached to building surfaces
Exception: Flexible cord and cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with the provisions of 368.8.
(5)Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings
This is becoming problems with people installing Tv's on their walls and just running the power cords behind them in the wall along with their AV cables. Now the AV cables are aloud just not the power cable. That's why the use power bridges when doing it now..
This is what a power bridge is:
http://www.powerbridgesolution.com/home.html
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Now that's cool!
I don't know if it is $70 cool, but it just might be :)
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Okay, this could be reaching, but what about the WS13A? or the XPS3?
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The Ws13a I would think should work. I don't use any so I will have to let someone else here who has them or knows more about them. The x10 web site says its the same as appliance module just in a switch.
Check where ever you are wiring this switch in at. It has to have a neutral wire to work. Some switch boxes don't have neutral wire ran to it.
Plus
The Decorator Wall Switch responds to "All Lights On" command from any X10 controller or software set to its housecode. If you want to control an appliance that you DO NOT want to turn on with the "All Lights On Command" you should us an Appliance Module instead.
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Both of those are great points, thanks! And I've been thinking about them before hand....
I'm planning to wire the outlet specifically for the application and I'm using romex with ground. It will have neutral.
As far as the all lights on command, the only time that is ever sent (from my current setup) is from my DS7000 and I only have one light on the same house code as that console.
If the XPS3 will work, it's a good deal. You can get them (shipped) for about $11 each from eBay.
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It looks like the WS13 and the XPS3 are close to the same thing. The XPS3 is a x10 pro module and I realy don't know about the pro part but some say they are maybe built alittle better.
Good Luck
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It looks like the WS13 and the XPS3 are close to the same thing. The XPS3 is a x10 pro module and I realy don't know about the pro part but some say they are maybe built alittle better.
Good Luck
FWIW
Very little difference, other than X10 Pro go through a burn-in cycle, and alignment/testing is supposed to be more thourough. Standard X10 is tested but no burn in. I do not believe there is any difference in components (quality).
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Thanks, Dave!
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Sometimes you may even get an order from X10's web site and a X10Pro version of what you ordered as a substitute. Sometime you may even get the Retail Blister Packed [different model number starting with an R] modules as a sub. ;D
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That's pretty interesting, Brian. The next time I order some stuff for chuckles, I'll keep my figners crossed :)
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Hi Folks,
I am new to this forum but certainly not new to controls. I have worked with controls for 30 years. I do have many X10 products in use in our home. Their equipment seems good for what it is intended to be used for but their instruction sheets and support techs leave a lot to be desired.
Now down to the facts. The WS-13A and the XPS-3IW are pretty much the same switch. They both are non-dimming, 20 AMP, 2,400 Watt Rated, Relay operated switch. They are both able to handle (INDUCTIVE) loads such as ceiling fans, ballasts in fluorescent lighting, and other current intensive loads. Both switches require a neutral wire in order to operate the mini-latching-relay and the little red LED that indicates the switch is on. The paddle used to activate and deactivate the switch simply presses a little momentary switch contact causing the relay to latch thus sending voltage through the relay contacts to the load terminal on the switch thus turning your device and the little red LED on. At the same time (Internally) when the relay latches it opens the circuit to the latch coil and closed the circuit to the unlatch coil. When you press the paddle now the momentary switch contact applies voltage to the unlatch relay coil deactivating the relay and removing voltage from the load terminal thus turning off your device and the little red LED indicating the switch is off. I hope this helps and doesn't confuse anyone.
You can also use the WS-13A in a three-way or more setting by using a WS-14 companion switch('s) but don't try to wire it the way the instructions say or it most likely won't work and if you call X10 support they will tell you you have line noise or phase problems. I think that is all they have been trained to say.
If anyone needs help please feel free to email me at: w8rvd@columbus.rr.com Please put X10 help request in the subject line and I will be glad to help you.
In closing you would not want to use a WS-467 as it has a current rating of 3 amps and it's circuit uses a triac to control the voltage. You would burn that switch up in a heart beat. Only use that switch incandescent lighting under 300 Watts. And for God's sakes DO NOT try to use a socket rocket for this application.
Bob Van Dyke
w8rvd@columbus.rr.com
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And for God's sakes DO NOT try to use a socket rocket for this application.
BVD,
Curiosity drives me to ask why not? Electrical code violation? Non compliance to manufacturers recommedations?
From a purely technical stand point, the Socket Rocket should work well. The siren load is well below the Socket Rocket max. The SR has no local control, i.e. no trickle current, so should not produce sound from the siren in the OFF state. The SR is fairly good on small inductive loads since the triac is fully gated on, and I believe the triac is gated at 0 crossing, so the output should be a faily clean sine (got no O'scope so I do not know this for sure).
No, I am NOT recommending the use of a Socket Rocket for non incandescent application, but just wondering why your recommendation against the SR was very emphatic.
Thanks
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Dave,
Most everything you said is true and from your message I can tell that you are not technically challenged. However the LM15A modules that I am using are not fully gated on. They come up slow the same way the lamp modules operate. This would indicate to me that they are soft gated and that is why I would not use it in this application. This could have a harmful effect on the electronic siren. BTW You are correct that the switching takes place at 0 crossing or at least that is what X10 manuals say.
Respectfully,
Bob
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Dave,
Most everything you said is true and from your message I can tell that you are not technically challenged. However the LM15A modules that I am using are not fully gated on. They come up slow the same way the lamp modules operate. This would indicate to me that they are soft gated and that is why I would not use it in this application. This could have a harmful effect on the electronic siren. BTW You are correct that the switching takes place at 0 crossing or at least that is what X10 manuals say.
Respectfully,
Bob
The LM15A does not have dim/ bright capability. Are you talking about the now discontinued LM14A modules?
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LM15A is the Socket Rocket. Is that what you have?
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However the LM15A modules that I am using are not fully gated on. They come up slow the same way the lamp modules operate. This would indicate to me that they are soft gated and that is why I would not use it in this application.
Bob,
None of my Socket Rockets ramp, they are instant on. This must be a fairly recent design change (6-8 months?).
Yes I agree with you. A "soft turn on" would NOT be advisable for anything other than incandescent. What a bummer, I have several SRs that I use as a silent switch for inductive loads and was just ready to order a couple more from the X10 porn site, but won't now, since the SRs now ramp or have soft turn on.
There are a couple of plans out there to convert a lamp modules to a silent appliance modules using SSRs. I know Brian H has converted a couple lamp modules to silent appliance modules...guess I will have to do the same now. Anywho (a midwest transitional term) thanks for the information!
Dave W
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The new soft start LM465s may not work well with the SSR mod. I never tried one but have a few unused ones from Package Deals to try ;D Still have a few of the Sharp SSRs also.
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Yeah, I have a ton of old Lamp Modules, so have plenty of "non-rampers" to mod. Modding to SSR, since the original triac gate signal is changed to a DC level, I wonder how much effect the "soft start" would have? A delay in turn?
FYI
All Electronics has Magnecraft SSRs cheap. 1 amp = $3, and 3 amp =$6. I just have to dig up the mod for the magecraft SSRs.
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/SRLY-20/3-AMP-SOLID-STATE-RELAY/-/1.html
Thanks Brian
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My Sharp ones basically go on and if you dim. Go off at some point.
My best guess would be maybe a slight delay as it ramped up and down to go on and off.
I believe the mod that was shown left the Local sensing resistors in the circuit. I also removed them as the point of this mod was no current on the output when off.