X10 Community Forum

🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: ggrote on July 21, 2009, 09:32:02 AM

Title: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 21, 2009, 09:32:02 AM
Hello ... I'd like to jump in to X-10 ... I bought a firecracker kit many years ago, so I understand the general concepts, if not the details ... I have two projects (for starters) ...

_______________________

Project #1:

My house has 7 external down-lights, all controlled by a single switch ... I'd like to have those lights come on at dusk and then off either at a set time or dawn (I want the capability to do both, because I'm not 100% sure which I will prefer in the long run) ... I want to use CFL's to keep the costs down.

My first thought was the WS467, but I fear that it won't handle CFL's, and in any case 7 lights would stretch its capabilities.

I hate to go to Socket Rockets because of the cost, but if that's my only option I will consider it ... is it easy to control 7 separate devices with a single sensor?

And as for the sensor, if I can't find a Sundowner somewhere, what should I use?  Can I easily use the ActiveEye motion sensor to trigger a macro that would turn the lights on (and/or off)?  I'd appreciate any advice.

________________________

Project #2:

I have 7 (hmmm, there's that number again) entrances that each have from 1 to 3 external wall-mounted lights ... each set of lights is controlled by its own single switch ... I'd like to use motion sensors to turn each light on when someone approaches that entrance ... I plan to stick with incandescent lights because these will cycle for shorter periods ...

My thought was to use WS467's and either EagleEye or ActiveEye sensors, which will cost $38-$43 per door if I buy everything separately (but I will bundle as much as I can) ... it appears that the primary reason to pay the extra $5 for the ActiveEye is that it will permit me to trigger macros in a controller (which probably isn't required for this application).

________________________

Controllers ... based on what I read about the ActiveEye sensor, I assume that the CM11A is the way to go, but it looks like the CM15A is included in the ActiveHome kits ... I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have in this regard.

Am I correct that I will not need the Smart Macros module because the ActiveHome software does macros?

________________________

Sorry for so many questions.  Thanks for your help!
Greg
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on July 21, 2009, 11:10:55 AM
Welcome to the forum ggrote be sure to keep us informed on your projects progressions (they sound interesting).


project #1

I have recently put up a LED floodlight right next the a CFL flood. The LED only uses 5 watts (4.5?) and produces a great light. Since your looking at using 7... and the cost per unit is only about $4 more for each LED.. you may want to check that out. Payback would be pretty quick. I can't think of the non-dimming switch... but I am pretty sure there is one... and weather you use 5 watt LEDs or 19 watt CFLs (I don't think) wattage would be a problem. Something to remember with ether LED of CFL is they can both generate powerline noise that interfears with the X10 signals. You might want to consider a setup that will allow you to filter that line noise out between the switch and the lamps (making SocketRockets less desireable)

You may want to look at the X10 floodlight as the controller (instead of BOTH, or ether... the switch and the activeeye) for this project. It can do the automatic on at dusk off at dawn, or be switched manually using a regular switch... or controlled by X10 remotes, and macros. PLUS the floodlight can preform extra functions turning on other devices (inside lights or cameras) when motion is detected. Or other dusk related device(s) on... even on other unit codes.

Project #2

Activeeye and switches looks like the way to go at your entrances.

Although a couple well located X10 floodlights (PR511) could add some extra safety there too. One floodlight can turn ON 4 seperate Unit codes when motion is detected (as well as 4 for dusk/dawn).

The CM11A (activehome) is the old interface and software (not even sure where you could buy it). You want (IMHO) the new Active Home Pro and CM15A with the entire software suite (it doesn't cost any extra anyway). I run a night-lighting macro on mine that is triggered (by the X10 floodlight PR511) at dusk... then at midnight turns off... then a (AHP) timer turns lights back on at 5 AM... and the floodlight then turns the lights off at sunrise.

I also use BVC (http://www.wgjohns.com/bvc.htm) with my Home Automation setup. Besides allowing me to control my lights and devices by voice command... it gives me voice announcements when motion is detected... and tells me WHERE the motion was detected. With SEVEN entrances... its something to consider.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: dave w on July 21, 2009, 12:06:57 PM
FWIW on project # 1

You could use the inexpensive, two wire WS467 for the seven down lights IF you keep one of the bulbs as an incandescent bulb of at least 40W, and if you do not mistakenly try to dim the switch (that is unless you have dimmable CFLs). The single incandescent filament will provide a current path to power the electronics in the WS467. Other wise you would need a WS13 which functions as a relay rather than a dimmer. The WS13 requires a neutral line.

As Dave X10 stated, you may have noise issues with six or seven CFLs on the circuit. An in-line filter would probably solve the problem if noise is an issue, but I would wait to see if it actually impairs X10 signalling. I have three CFLs and one incandescent light in a ceiling fan, and although my X10 signal level meter pegs when the lights are on, I have no X10 signalling issues.

Also as Dave suggested the CM15A and AHP software will meet your needs a lot better than the Firecracker.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 21, 2009, 02:01:47 PM
Excellent suggestions, Dave and Dave ... thanks a bunch ...

WS13 ... I will check for neutral wire, as this sounds like a great option.

I forgot to mention that all of the switches in question are in double-gang boxes ... will both the WS467 and WS13 work in that sort of application (i.e., next to a standard light switch in a double-gang box)?

In-line filters (if required) ... I assume that the filter has to be installed between the switch and the first light in the circuit?  That could be a challenge, but my house is a ranch with an unfinished basement so I should be able to splice in either the basement or attic.

PR511 flood light controller ... very interesting idea ... I can't visualize a place to put it/them just now, but will read up on them and walk around the house and see if any ideas surface.

LED lamps ... I would definitely spend the extra to get LED lamps, but haven't found any that I think would work ... either too dim (based on lumen ratings of typical models, it seems that I would need ~7W to equal ~70W incandescent?) or not rated for outside (my down lights are all open recessed cans) ... can you post a few links to get me started?
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on July 21, 2009, 04:53:39 PM
... can you post a few links to get me started?

LED's are just this close (holding my fingers close together) to being mainstream. I bought my LED floods at Sam's Club.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: Brian H on July 21, 2009, 07:04:37 PM
I have two of the EarthLED EVOLUX LED bulbs that are 13 watts and the manufacturer says they are comparable to a 100 watt incandescent bulb. Comparable is not really equal.  ??? Since they have a 180 degree illumination pattern. In a table lamp much of the light goes up to the ceiling.

http://www.earthled.com/index.html
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on July 21, 2009, 09:32:09 PM
I have two of the EarthLED EVOLUX LED bulbs that are 13 watts and the manufacturer says they are comparable to a 100 watt incandescent bulb. Comparable is not really equal.  ??? Since they have a 180 degree illumination pattern. In a table lamp much of the light goes up to the ceiling.

Your right Brian H and I really didn't mean to make ggrote's thread about light bulbs ether.

Like many of us... I've converted most of my lighting over to one or the other newer lighting technologies. And I've learned to change habits too. Actually... I am to the point where very little of the electric I use is used to produce light. Rarely does a project come along like ggrote's where there is such clear and easy ways to use less energy compared to standard bulbs burning dusk to dawn.

Consider the dollar saving of using a light and motion sensor... along with macros to turn lights on and off at dusk to dawn. Then add in a midnight to 5 AM off MACRO... but BACK ON if motion is detected.

Even if the user decided to use "energy saving" 26 watt CFL floodlights. An every night 5 hour off time could save 910 watt hours or nearly one KWH (also about the same amount as would be used, adjusted for the seasons) Of course the LEDs would only consume roughly 175 watt hours a night (about one fifth of the CFL).

I think the motion sensors and the macros are the real energy savers. The area around my home lights up bright enough for night baseball... but only when motion is detected. But all the lights come on so rarely... I would guess-a-mate the cost as pennies a year.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 23, 2009, 12:06:11 PM
I have two of the EarthLED EVOLUX LED bulbs that are 13 watts and the manufacturer says they are comparable to a 100 watt incandescent bulb. Comparable is not really equal.  ??? Since they have a 180 degree illumination pattern. In a table lamp much of the light goes up to the ceiling.

http://www.earthled.com/index.html

Ah, so they would work well in can lights ... but unfortunately they're a bit out of my price range for this application ... $80 vs. about $5-$6 for a comparable CFL would take a long time to pay back even running all night, every night ...

And to Dave, I don't mind discussing bulbs because I haven't positively decided what to use for the downlights yet ... I'd love to use LED's if the extra cost would pay back in a reasonable period of time (perhaps a year or so) ... I've seen the LED bulbs at Sam's but I was afriad they would not be bright enough, so I guess I just need to pull the trigger and try one to see if I like it.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: Brian H on July 23, 2009, 12:10:50 PM
Very true on the cost differences.

I just had a need to try one.  ;D  rofl
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on July 23, 2009, 03:18:25 PM
... I've seen the LED bulbs at Sam's but I was afriad they would not be bright enough, so I guess I just need to pull the trigger and try one to see if I like it.

Yep. Many of us have more than a decade experience with using the CFL's. And some of have been testing and using LED's too. I am not pushing ether technology. But the only way to try it... is to buy it.

My goal.. is to have GOOD lighting. What good is... depends on the use. Sometimes good means bright, or sets a mood, or is cheap to put up... or cheap to use. I don't think in terms of payback time... cause I don't live that way. (plan like you'll live forever... live like you'll die tomorrow) You never mentioned the actual use for the lighting in your post (security, decoration, advertisement) and I never bothered to assume.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 25, 2009, 10:10:40 PM
Okay, after a good bit of reading, here's the BoM for my projects:

Model   Description               Qty
CK12AS  ActiveHome Kit             1  (controller + software)
WS467   Wall switch                7  (one for each set of entrance lights)
MS16A   ActiveEye Motion Sensor    7  (one sensor for each WS467)
XPS3    Wall switch (non-dimming)  1  (to control outside down lights)
SD533   Sundowner                  0  (see note below)


I'm planning to use the dusk-dawn signals from one of the ActiveEyes to trigger a macro that will control the XPS3, but if that doesn't work it appears that I can still get a Sundowner on eBay (etc.) ...

I verified that I have a neutral in my switch boxes, so I'm hoping that the XPS3 will work for my down lights.

If you notice any holes or unnecessary components, please chime in, but I'm going to order everything soon.

Thanks again for everyone's help, and wish me luck!  I'll post again when it's all set up and running (oh, who am I kidding ... I'm sure you'll hear from me when I get stuck)!
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on July 25, 2009, 10:27:02 PM
Model   Description              Qty
CK12AS   ActiveHome Kit                1  (controller + software)
WS467   Wall switch                7  (one for each set of entrance lights)
MS16A   ActiveEye Motion Sensor   7  (one sensor for each WS467)
XPS3   Wall switch (non-dimming)   1  (to control outside down lights)
SD533   Sundowner                0  (see note below)

CK12AS   ActiveHome KitYou must be putting together an ebay order. The old CM11A was state of the art... some years ago. If your a serious Linux user that is looking for an automation hobby... the CM11A is your only choice. But if your looking for Home Automation that you can use with ordinary (and somewhat current) computers... you will need the AHP with the CM15A interface.

However... if you've decided to try the old interface be sure to get a couple transceivers as the CM11A can't send or receive RF.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 25, 2009, 10:40:58 PM
CK12AS   ActiveHome KitYou must be putting together an ebay order.[snip]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that I got that off the X-10 web site somewhere (BTW, and FWIW, I hate the X-10 web site) because I didn't start poking around on the web for the best prices until after I had put together my BoM ... but of course now the pages I was using are different (or I just can't find them again) so I can't say for sure ... suffice it to say that I do plan to get a bundle with the CM15A and software ... thanks for keeping me on track!
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 27, 2009, 09:24:51 AM
Okay, everything's on order ... I even picked up a WS12A and two WS14A's so that I can dim the can lights in my living room when we're watching TV (there are 3 switches that control those lights) ... and I earned some X-10 bucks!

I've been reading up on phase couplers but didn't buy one yet ... I haven't gone out to check the breaker box yet, but will do so when I'm setting it up so that I will know what I'm up against ... I have an electric dryer and range ... I also have an electric water heater (much to my chagrin, but I digress), which I will probably turn off during testing just to make sure it doesn't cloud the results ... and I have a subpanel in the basement for my shop that has 220 in it as well (for the dust collector) ... so perhaps you can see why it's not obvious to me whether I will need the coupler ...
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: dave w on July 27, 2009, 11:56:39 AM

I also have an electric water heater (much to my chagrin, but I digress), which I will probably turn off during testing just to make sure it doesn't cloud the results ... and I have a subpanel in the basement for my shop that has 220 in it as well (for the dust collector) ... so perhaps you can see why it's not obvious to me whether I will need the coupler ...
ggrote
FWIW
In most cases, good phase coupling will not take place unless the 220V appliance is ON (running), especially true for your water heater and stove. If the stove or dryer has a clock or electronic controls some coupling takes place 100% of the time across the appliances internal transformer which reduces the 220V to something the electronics can use, but transformers with primaries made for 60 hertz usually are lously at coupling the 120KHz X10 signal.  Your water heater and stove oven, or burner will provide good coupling, but again, only when ON.

So having a lot of 220V appliances does not guarentee good phase coupling. Once you get your system installed you may need a coupler and depending on size of house I would recommend a (good) coupler/repeater rather than a simple passive coupler. 
Good luck with the project...X10 can be really fun.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on July 27, 2009, 01:09:27 PM
[snip] ... So having a lot of 220V appliances does not guarentee good phase coupling. [snip]

Sorry if my post was confusing in that regard ... I didn't mean to imply that that was my understanding (because it is not).

When I get it all set up, my intention is to disconnect all of the 220V stuff and see if everything works ... if so, then I will feel pretty comfortable that I don't need a coupler so I will test again with everything running just to watch for noise or other possible issues ...

And I will definitely take you up on recommendations for a good coupler if it turns out that I need one ...  :'
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on August 04, 2009, 09:57:26 PM
All of my stuff arrived in the past few days, so I'm ready to get at my two original outdoor lighting projects ... but first ...

You guys will laugh at me, but I'm pleased to report that I successfully replaced a 4-way setup in my living room with a WS12 and two WS14's tonight ... controlling 4 can lights that are perfect for many activities but too bright for watching TV ... and it works great!  I must admit that I don't much care for the "feel" of the switches, especially since they look like rocker paddles but aren't, but I assume that I will get used to that with time.

Not being an electrician, I did a little research on 4-way switches ... that "ask the builder" guy did a good job of explaining what I was looking at, and the doc I got off the X-10 ftp site had a couple of good tips for performing the installation ... ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/instructions/4-way-wiring.pdf (http://ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/instructions/4-way-wiring.pdf) ... everything worked perfectly!

I probably need to get a remote or two, but I'll wait until I have everything put in to see which kind I should get ...

Next up, the outside down-lights!
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 07, 2009, 10:49:17 PM
Update (sorry in advance for the length).  Over the past few weeks I've come to the realization that I have to scale back my X-10 projects unless I want to pick up X-10 as a new hobby ... it's interesting and all, but I already have too many hobbies.  So here is my new plan:

Outside down lights.  I purchased seven 16W CFLs and they are working great.  After 3 days the new XPS3 seems to be working fine.  I'm running manual timers right now because I cannot change my time zone in AHP without crashing it (Dan suggests a reinstall, which I hope to attempt this week) ... the CM15A failed to turn the lights on last night, but has otherwise worked correctly ... if it fails again, I will turn on the repeat feature.  Once I am able to run the dusk-dawn timer on the CM15A, I will use that feature instead of messing with the ActiveEye dusk-dawn feature (which was my original plan).

Living room lights.  I installed a WS12A and two WS14A switches to control the 4 can lights in the living room.  I cannot control them with my CM15A, which I presume to be a phase issue (although it doesn't with my oven on either), but I mostly bought them because it was cheaper than other dimmable 4-way switches ... the switch operation is somewhat counterintuitive, but we're used to it now.

Entrance lights.  I've scaled back from 7 entrances to 3, but I'm not sure I'll even be able to pull that off.  All I want is for the motion sensor to turn on the light when it sees motion and then turn it off afterwards.  In my initial setup (front door), my ActiveEye sends the correct signals, and my CM15A turns on the light (WS467), but will not turn it off (although it is indeed sending the command) ... in fact, I cannot turn off the WS467 remotely at all and can only turn it off at the switch.  I've also tried it set to 2-way appliance module with no results.

My projects are uber-basic ... most of the projects you guys do are orders of magnitude more complicated than this ... and so I hope you can see why I don't understand how a company can sell products like this for so many years and yet they still don't work, even in simple situations like mine ... so I'm certainly not going to be looking at any of their higher end products (e.g., TV remote, cameras, etc.)

Anyway, rather than toss in the towel just yet, I ordered an RR501 to see if it will allow me to control my living room lights ... and I'm considering the coupler/repeater/amplifier just to see if it might help me punch through whatever's causing my WS467 to go deaf ... but I'm not sure how much more patience I'll have with it before I revert to wired controls (I have a ranch-style house with unfinished basement, but I thought this stuff would be much cooler).

Thanks so much for all you guys who post in this forum ... I know I've been a newbie pain in the butt, but without you I would have sent back my whole shipment after two days ... I've been clicking "helpful" when I can ... and please keep posting that great info for those other guys out there who have more patience and persistence than me   >!
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on September 08, 2009, 07:33:25 AM
............  I don't understand how a company can sell products like this for so many years and yet they still don't work, even in simple situations like mine ...

Anyway, rather than toss in the towel just yet, I ordered an RR501 to see if it will allow me to control my living room lights ... and I'm considering the coupler/repeater/amplifier just to see if it might help me punch through whatever's causing my WS467 to go deaf ... but I'm not sure how much more patience I'll have with it

I think your on the right track. Resolving phase and noise issues will make X10 a heck of a lot more fun... I know.

For many X10 users... they're setup and home size means problems are greatly reduced. So X10 uses ad's that makes it sounds like everything sets up in five minutes (or LESS). I've sometimes called those X10 minutes. Five X10 minutes is equal to an entire weekend... in normal minutes. X10 isn't out-of-the-box useful... it requires a little learning and a little engineering... but its well worth the effort.

I love X10 and Home Automation in general. I regularly strain my brain searching for new projects.... it really is THAT cool.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 15, 2009, 05:25:04 PM
Quick update ... I received the RR501 and plugged it into an outlet on the same side of the panel as my living room lights, and I can now control those lights with a remote (HR12A), so I do indeed have some phase separation issues (or whatever the correct term is).

I haven't tested it yet, but I wonder if the CM15A will talk to the RR501 as a way to skirt the phase issue, or will I still need a coupler / repeater / amplifier?  If the latter, which brand/model do you recommend?  Looking on Smarthome, the X-10 model seems to garner higher user ratings than the Leviton or Homepro.

As you can see, despite my rantings I have not yet given up.   :'  Thanks!

(Quick background ... I'm a mechnical engineer and have a rudimentary understanding of household power distribution, but I'm more of a practical hands-on type so the high-end EE explanations that I've tried to read on this subject have not been helpful in answering the above question.)
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on September 15, 2009, 07:04:50 PM
......  If the latter, which brand/model do you recommend?  Looking on Smarthome, the X-10 model seems to garner higher user ratings than the Leviton or Homepro.

No two setups are the same. What works well in my home, with my powerlines, and the devices I have plugged in.. may not be fine at your home.

All I use to couple the phase's is this: http://www.smarthome.com/4816B2/SignaLinc-trade-Plug-In-Phase-Coupler/p.aspx

Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 16, 2009, 09:06:04 AM
Yeah, that was my first thought ... but I still need a solution for my dang WS467 that will turn on remotely, but not off ... I was hoping that the "repeater / amplifier" portions of the hardwired devices might help blow through the noise or whatever is causing that issue ...

I'm out of town this weekend, but I'm hoping to install the other two WS467's next weekend to see if they act the same ... if they do, then I think I'll try the coupler / repeater / amplifier ... however, if they work fine, then I might venture down the path of trying to sort out what's happening at the front door ...

Thanks for the feedback!   #:)
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on September 16, 2009, 09:37:58 AM
... I was hoping that the "repeater / amplifier" portions of the hardwired devices might help blow through the noise or whatever is causing that issue ...

I don't know what your noise problem is exactly... you've never really said. If you don't know for sure... finding the source of the problem... could be a big step towards the solution. But ether way the phases do need to be coupled also. A good coupler repeater would be great. 

From what I've read and understand JeffVolp makes the best solution on the market:  http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 16, 2009, 10:46:57 AM
Yeah, that's my problem ... I don't know what the problem is ... but others (in other threads I have read about the WS467 turning on but not off) have hinted that the problem must be that the WS467 turning on increased the noise in the circuit just enough so that the "off" command was not being heard over the din ... that's what made me think that an amplifier or repeater of some sort might be a good solution (as opposed to purchasing a bunch of testing and analysis equipment and installing filters ... remember that I'm not really looking for a new hobby here).

Thanks for the link ... I will definitely give that a look ... based on a number of posts that I read of Jeff's, I can tell that "the dude has it going on" (as the kids say) ...
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: dave w on September 16, 2009, 12:08:05 PM
Thanks for the link ... I will definitely give that a look ... based on a number of posts that I read of Jeff's, I can tell that "the dude has it going on" (as the kids say) ...
FWIW ...or my $0.02
There are two schools of thought and the best results are probably if you "walk down the middle".
1. When you find noise, filter it out of the system.
This works, but with the preponderance of wall wart switching power supplies and CFL bulbs, it is getting more difficult and expensive to filter all the noise sources.
2. Boost your X10 signals above the noise with a good repeater.
Probably the most effective solution is a combination (if needed) which is to boost maximum,  and filter only the worst offenders.

I use an ACT 234 repeater which is an excellent repeater, but I believe Volp's XTBIIR will out perform the ACT 234 with ease (sorry Phil, if you are reading). I have MANY noise sources in the house as identified using a X10 signal level meter. The only sources I have to filter is a big Toshiba TV and a Panasonic Microwave. Everything else is over ridden by the stronger repeater signal, and this includes a ceiling fan with four CFLs which peg the level meter when they are on.

So I vote for an XTBIIR with additional filtering ONLY if really needed.
FWIW #2, a new signal level meter from Jeff Volp is coming soon which will provide both X10 signal and noise levels in numeric form (not bar graph as the old ELK meter).
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: Brian H on September 16, 2009, 12:38:06 PM
My XTBIIR works much better than my ACT CR134 [same as a CR234 but can be set to split or three phase use]
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: dave w on September 16, 2009, 04:49:22 PM
My XTBIIR works much better than my ACT CR134 [same as a CR234 but can be set to split or three phase use]
Yeah I gotta get me one. The only reason I have not as yet is; the ACT has all the LED status indicators which I use for system trouble shooting but the XTBIIR does not.  I like the TX and RX indicators. I wired piezo alarms across both LEDs and when enabled, the two beepers can be heard through the house so I can "hear" the repeater and know whether receiving or transmitting. Nice for testing.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 16, 2009, 06:11:11 PM
Great stuff ... I've been clicking a button and walking across the house to see if the light went on or off ... pretty low-tech ... and definitely hurting my WAF, but she's used to this type of thing after almost 28 yrs ...

Thanks for the info, guys ... I'll be reading up on it over the next several days ...
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: ggrote on September 27, 2009, 03:50:09 PM
Update ... I installed a second WS467 (lights near sliding glass door leading to the deck) and slaved an MS16A to it ... it turns the lights on every time, but it only turns them off about half the time.

I also tested both WS467 (front door and deck) with my HR12 and both are responding to all "on" commands and most (but not all) "off" commands (contrary to my previous tests of the front door, during which I could only turn the WS467 off by pressing its button).

I've read up on the XTB-IIR, and am sending Jeff a note requesting a bit of clarification on installation of the unit, but I believe I will give it a shot to see if it will make the difference ... the cost of the XTB-IIR (assembled and tested) will represent over a third of my total investment in X-10, but if it gets me over the hump to consistent, reliable performance it will be worth it.

Side note:  I think the article in Home Toys mag (http://www.hometoys.com/ezine/08.04/green/xtb.htm (http://www.hometoys.com/ezine/08.04/green/xtb.htm)) concerning the XTB-IIR should be required reading for anyone considering employing X-10 devices in their home ... it may scare some folks away, but it will allow everyone to go in with their eyes open and will greatly diminish the potential for disappointment.
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: HA Dave on September 27, 2009, 08:19:22 PM
....... the XTB-IIR (assembled and tested) will represent over a third of my total investment in X-10, but if it gets me over the hump to consistent, reliable performance it will be worth it.

ggrote your so right! Of course every home is different... and the amount of effort and money required to make a system relieable can vary greatly. But As much fun as automation is... its a heck of a lot better when its relieable.

I've only heard (and read) good about JeffVolp's works (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm (http://jvde.us/xtb_index.htm)).
Title: Re: Two home external lighting projects
Post by: luisc202 on October 02, 2009, 01:28:38 AM
Update ... I installed a second WS467 (lights near sliding glass door leading to the deck) and slaved an MS16A to it ... it turns the lights on every time, but it only turns them off about half the time.

I also tested both WS467 (front door and deck) with my HR12 and both are responding to all "on" commands and most (but not all) "off" commands (contrary to my previous tests of the front door, during which I could only turn the WS467 off by pressing its button).

I've read up on the XTB-IIR, and am sending Jeff a note requesting a bit of clarification on installation of the unit, but I believe I will give it a shot to see if it will make the difference ... the cost of the XTB-IIR (assembled and tested) will represent over a third of my total investment in X-10, but if it gets me over the hump to consistent, reliable performance it will be worth it.

Side note:  I think the article in Home Toys mag (http://www.hometoys.com/ezine/08.04/green/xtb.htm (http://www.hometoys.com/ezine/08.04/green/xtb.htm)) concerning the XTB-IIR should be required reading for anyone considering employing X-10 devices in their home ... it may scare some folks away, but it will allow everyone to go in with their eyes open and will greatly diminish the potential for disappointment.


Thanks for the link.  I am just starting into X10 myself and see the problems that can e faced from house to house.