X10 Community Forum
🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: Deemar on October 06, 2009, 12:22:37 PM
-
I got a bunch of lights in my house hooked up to X10 with a CM11A and Heyu. Now I want to add a few more things so I have questions:
1. Which module do I need as a light switch for replacing my ceiling fan light switch? It's a simple switch but the WS12A switches can't handle the load I guess, they won't work.
2. I have a light in my garage controlled by a WS12A switch and also a RR501 transceiver and a credit card remote to control it. I enter the garage from the back door to get in my car but the light switch is at the front so I use the remote to turn the light on/off in the mornings so I can see in there. I'd rather just have it motion activated, what do I need to do motion activation on this one light?
3. I have a gas fireplace controlled by a light switch, what would I need to control this?
4. I have a few LED lights in my kitchen and they don't draw enough current for a WS12A to work with them. Which module would I need to control these?
5. I have central air in my house and it's controlled by flicking a light switch on/off above the thermostat. Which module would I need to control this?
-
The WS13A http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/WS13A
Will work for most of the switch questions.
There are a few ways to motion sense. One is the MS14A
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/MS14A
-
1. Which module do I need as a light switch for replacing my ceiling fan light switch? It's a simple switch but the WS12A switches can't handle the load I guess, they won't work.
Odd, the WS12A should work with incandescent fan light if the light controlling switch is separate from the fan motor control. Neither WS12A nor the WS467 will not work with CFL bulbs.
2. I have a light in my garage controlled by a WS12A switch and also a RR501 transceiver and a credit card remote to control it. I enter the garage from the back door to get in my car but the light switch is at the front so I use the remote to turn the light on/off in the mornings so I can see in there. I'd rather just have it motion activated, what do I need to do motion activation on this one light?
Any of the X10 "xxxxEye" motion sensors
3. I have a gas fireplace controlled by a light switch, what would I need to control this?
Crystal ball is broke, does the switch control 120V to the fireplace or is it a low voltage ignition control line. Low voltage controls are common and a "Universal Module" would be needed for that. The UM506 "Universal Module" requires a 120V outlet and gives you a contact closure. X10 does not make a "wall switch" to control low voltages. If the switch is controlling 120V a WS13A should work.
4. I have a few LED lights in my kitchen and they don't draw enough current for a WS12A to work with them. Which module would I need to control these?
LED lights are tough to control because the Appliance Module's local control circuit leaks enough electricity to keep LEDs lit. I use a Socket Rocket to control an LED rope light and it works well.
5. I have central air in my house and it's controlled by flicking a light switch on/off above the thermostat. Which module would I need to control this?
Well crystal ball is still broke. Assuming the switch is simply controlling the 24V AC line to the thermostat, again you would need the Universal Module since all other X10 switches are made to switch 120V or 240V. The UM506 "Universal Module" requires a 120V outlet and gives you a contact closure. X10 does not make a "wall switch" to control low voltages.
-
I guess I assumed to much on this one :'
I will just dido what Dave said.........We need more information to give a good answer
-
I guess I assumed to much on this one :'
Oh contraire my friend, your answer was excellent. It pointed Deemar to pages where he could get more information on his own. I just wanted to point out that he had wall switches which could be controlling low voltages (possibly only a few volts in the case of the fireplace) and X10 does not make a wall switch capable of doing that. However he could use a Universal Module tucked somewhere behind the scene to still utilize X10 control. Deemar needs to find out what he has.
-
.......... I just wanted to point out that he had wall switches which could be controlling low voltages (possibly only a few volts in the case of the fireplace) and X10 does not make a wall switch capable of doing that. However he could use a Universal Module tucked somewhere behind the scene to still utilize X10 control. Deemar needs to find out what he has.
I agree completely.. the fireplace could be low voltage. But low voltage or not I wouldn't trust a gas fireplace solely to X10 (or at least not without precautions). However, maybe thats just me.
-
I agree completely.. the fireplace could be low voltage. But low voltage or not I wouldn't trust a gas fireplace solely to X10 (or at least not without precautions). However, maybe thats just me.
You are right.
I was waiting to see if Deemar is going to check what he has and pursue this.
In either the fireplace or the thermostat he should keep the original switch in place and only parallel the Universal module across the existing switch, perhaps even put a second switch in series with Universal module on the fireplace to have a "master OFF" function. If house power is lost, the Universal Modules would not work, which would not be a probelm for the HVAC thermostat but could be for the fireplace if in the dead of winter, so he needs some manual overrides.
-
Some good information here, I checked out most of the products mentioned. Does the universal module require an outlet? I'm also thinking of using one with the garage door but there's no outlet near the current garage door button. In fact there's only one outlet in the garage at all.
And what's the best way to find out if what I have is low voltage? I'm lost on this one.
-
Some good information here, I checked out most of the products mentioned. Does the universal module require an outlet? I'm also thinking of using one with the garage door but there's no outlet near the current garage door button. In fact there's only one outlet in the garage at all.
And what's the best way to find out if what I have is low voltage? I'm lost on this one.
sigh...Yes, Universal Module requires an outlet.
Plug Universal Module into same outlet as the opener and connect module contacts to opener, not the wall switch. Since X10 signalling is far from infallible, you should put a magnetic window / door switch in series with this control line so the Universal Module can only close the garage door, never open it. You would mount the magnetic switch so it is closed only when the door is up.
Hire an electrician is safest way.
-
This has been done before:
http://www.thisautomatedhouse.com/FirePlace.html
-
Some good information here, I checked out most of the products mentioned. Does the universal module require an outlet? I'm also thinking of using one with the garage door but there's no outlet near the current garage door button. In fact there's only one outlet in the garage at all.
And what's the best way to find out if what I have is low voltage? I'm lost on this one.
sigh...Yes, Universal Module requires an outlet.
Plug Universal Module into same outlet as the opener and connect module contacts to opener, not the wall switch. Since X10 signalling is far from infallible, you should put a magnetic window / door switch in series with this control line so the Universal Module can only close the garage door, never open it. You would mount the magnetic switch so it is closed only when the door is up.
Hire an electrician is safest way.
But the opener isn't plugged into anything, it's just a button on the wall. Does that change things? And I want it to open the door so I can get my car in there when I come home.
-
The button on the wall. Is it wired to the opener or a remote that you have to put batteries in?
If it has wires. The universal module could be connected to it to open the door. I would also say adding a magnetic switch to only let the universal module open the door. If it could also close the door. Someone may get hurt.
-
But the opener isn't plugged into anything, it's just a button on the wall. Does that change things? And I want it to open the door so I can get my car in there when I come home.
Don't you have something hanging from the ceiling in the garage? It lights up, makes a lot of noise, and the door moves up or down...
However, based on your new information, I don't think you want to use X10 for garage door control. X10 is susceptible to falsing. I wouldn't give the Universal Module the ability to open the door for fear it would false while I was gone, thus leaving the garage open all day. I have used it this way and have come home to an open garage. I now have the Universal Module wired so it can only close the garage door, in the event I forget to (as determined by the home control system).
If you do not have a RF remote control for your garage door, see a garage door service company about installation of one.
-
...If you do not have a RF remote control for your garage door, see a garage door service company about installation of one.
A quick look at the unit (for brand and model numbers) and a little Internet "local" search [like online yellowpages] will find you an installer that can provide you with a replacement remote. Heck it's more than likely you can just pickup a replacement remote at Sears (or any other number of retailers). And for little difference in price over the universal module.
Very old units are hard to find and have pin switches to set to match your receiver. Newer units have a button pressing protocol to follow (directions can also be found on line).
If your door has the really old hardware... it won't have the safety light that projects a beam across the doors path to prevent accidental injury's ether. Without that safety feature... I wouldn't even auto-close. I decided to not auto-close my door... for several reasons. But hated finding the door wide open at bedtime... or worse in the morning.
I use Home Automation (shown in my YouTube Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apZF77tsZlI)) and BVC (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) to announce when the door is open. Many times... I've seen my wife lay down her purse... and heard my computer announce that the garage door is open.
-
But the opener isn't plugged into anything, it's just a button on the wall. Does that change things? And I want it to open the door so I can get my car in there when I come home.
Don't you have something hanging from the ceiling in the garage? It lights up, makes a lot of noise, and the door moves up or down...
However, based on your new information, I don't think you want to use X10 for garage door control. X10 is susceptible to falsing. I wouldn't give the Universal Module the ability to open the door for fear it would false while I was gone, thus leaving the garage open all day. I have used it this way and have come home to an open garage. I now have the Universal Module wired so it can only close the garage door, in the event I forget to (as determined by the home control system).
If you do not have a RF remote control for your garage door, see a garage door service company about installation of one.
Sorry, totally left out some important information from my post.
- I have a wireless remote to open the garage door but I'd still like to control it from either my computer or my Blackberry via SSH.
- The wired button on the wall for opening the garage door isn't plugged into anything, it's completely wired in behind the wall. The panel has the big white button for opening the garage door and a smaller button for operating the light on the ceiling, connected to the motor.
- There is an infrared beam going across the bottom of the door which acts as a safety. If anything breaks the beam while the door is closing, it'll stop and go back up.
Does that help you? Now can I put a universal module on it somehow without an outlet? There must already be power wired to the switch for it to work.
-
sigh...Yes, Universal Module requires an outlet.
Plug Universal Module into same outlet as the opener and connect module contacts to opener, not the wall switch. Since X10 signalling is far from infallible, you should put a magnetic window / door switch in series with this control line so the Universal Module can only close the garage door, never open it. You would mount the magnetic switch so it is closed only when the door is up.
Hire an electrician is safest way.
Ohhhhhhhhhh..........now I get it. So ignore the switch on the wall and wire it to the motor on the ceiling. So I'd have to open it up and find where the contacts are inside, then wire the universal module to each side of the contacts? And there is an outlet on the ceiling next to the unit.
-
:)%
-
So how would I open up the fireplace to wire it to a universal module? Would that be controlled by one of those non dimming switches instead? It's currently just a light switch on the wall that turns it on.
-
It depends on exactly what the manual switch controls.
If it is a low voltage signal a universal module could do it.
If it is line voltage; then a NON dimming X10 switch could be used. Note that would need a Neutral power wire in the switch box. The two wire dimming type that use the bulb to supply power. Would not work.
-
sigh...Yes, Universal Module requires an outlet.
Plug Universal Module into same outlet as the opener and connect module contacts to opener, not the wall switch. Since X10 signalling is far from infallible, you should put a magnetic window / door switch in series with this control line so the Universal Module can only close the garage door, never open it. You would mount the magnetic switch so it is closed only when the door is up.
Hire an electrician is safest way.
Ohhhhhhhhhh..........now I get it. So ignore the switch on the wall and wire it to the motor on the ceiling. So I'd have to open it up and find where the contacts are inside, then wire the universal module to each side of the contacts? And there is an outlet on the ceiling next to the unit.
Okay so it's been a while but I got a bit of time to do this now. I haven't ordered the unit yet but I have a few questions on hooking it up to the garage door opener motor.
Are you sure there's a way to put this UM506 unit (or something similar) inside the motor and have it connect 2 wires to open the door? Will this work even though the switch on the wall is not being pressed? Is power even getting to the motor at all without the wall switch being pressed?
-
No the UM506 plugs into a wall outlet.
The output screws on the UM506 connect across the push button on the wall that presently opens and closes it.
As dave w indicated the UM506 could also be wired to the terminals on the opener where the wall button connects to.
-
Are you sure there's a way to put this UM506 unit (or something similar) inside the motor and have it connect 2 wires to open the door? Will this work even though the switch on the wall is not being pressed? Is power even getting to the motor at all without the wall switch being pressed?
You don't need to open the lifter unit. The contacts where the wall switch is connected should be available on the back of the unit. Do you have an electrician friend?
-
Are you sure there's a way to put this UM506 unit (or something similar) inside the motor and have it connect 2 wires to open the door? Will this work even though the switch on the wall is not being pressed? Is power even getting to the motor at all without the wall switch being pressed?
You don't need to open the lifter unit. The contacts where the wall switch is connected should be available on the back of the unit. Do you have an electrician friend?
Ah, brilliant idea! So find where the wall switch connects to the unit and use those contacts, that makes sense. I do have an electrician friend but I'm pretty sure I can do this. I just need to borrow a ladder so I can see up there. I'll still have to take the case off the unit though to get at the wires.
-
Crystal ball is broke, does the switch control 120V to the fireplace or is it a low voltage ignition control line. Low voltage controls are common and a "Universal Module" would be needed for that. The UM506 "Universal Module" requires a 120V outlet and gives you a contact closure. X10 does not make a "wall switch" to control low voltages. If the switch is controlling 120V a WS13A should work.
How do I find out what the details are with my fireplace and the switch?
-
Gee Boomer, that's like me asking you where I parked my car at the mall.
1. Have any instructions for the fireplace?
2. Turn the fire off and look around in the fireplace for manufaturer and model number then Google it.
3. Is there access from behind the fireplace to look for 120V line?
4. Who installed the fireplace? call them.
5. Measure the voltage across the switch when the fireplace is off. 120V or 5V??
-
My gas logs are made by DESA, and run on a 9v battery. There's a switch on the base of the unit that says ON-OFF-REMOTE, and a port to put the same switch into the wall for easy access. They have no 120 running to them, and there's no fan. If the ignition system required 120, the gas logs would be useless in a power outage as a back-up heat source. I change the battery about once a year, but am willing to bet it would last much longer.
-
If the ignition system required 120, the gas logs would be useless in a power outage as a back-up heat source.
Yeah, one would think so. However look at the O.P. item #3. That is why I am wondering about 120V.
-
I should also note that mine are simply on or off. The remote has a thermostat in it that controls the on/off. I've seen nicer units with modulating gas valves that will change the intensity of the flames accordingly. I'll bet that runs 120v.
-
OP #3 does seem to indicate a 120 volt control.
I hope the user can clear this up.
-
I took a look at the unit last night and the only marking on it is the manufacturer, Majestic. It's built into the corner of the living room with a large mantle surrounding it and vents directly outside. There are some fake logs inside with a pilot light constantly on and the glass is very warm to the touch, even when it's off. The pilot light alone makes it uncomfortable warm to stand near it when it's warm out like today.
What if I turned off all the power to the house at the breaker panel and then tried to turn it on. Would that confirm it's not 120?
-
I took a look at the unit last night and the only marking on it is the manufacturer, Majestic. It's built into the corner of the living room with a large mantle surrounding it and vents directly outside. There are some fake logs inside with a pilot light constantly on and the glass is very warm to the touch, even when it's off. The pilot light alone makes it uncomfortable warm to stand near it when it's warm out like today.
What if I turned off all the power to the house at the breaker panel and then tried to turn it on. Would that confirm it's not 120?
A pilot light makes me think it might be all low voltage based on pilot light thermocouple. Yes, shutting off house power and flipping the fireplace switch will tell you if it depends on house power (likely not). If the fireplace still lights with home power off, then using a Universal Module output contacts in series with the existing wall switch is a possible solution. I would only use a series connection rather than a parallel connection with the wall switch.
Series would mean you would leave the wall switch in the ON position when ready to use the fireplace, and you would always light and extinguish the fireplace through X10. But this allows you to quickly switch OFF the fireplace at the wall switch in the event of an emergency. Also switching the wall switch off would disable any accidental control by X10. You should leave the switch OFF until ready to use the fireplace.
A parallel connection across the switch would require you to turn off the fireplace with X10 if it was turned on through X10 initially. This would be a serious safety hazard especially if you lost power after lighting fireplace.
I would recommend a professional like a local fireplace vendor do this for you.
-
I'm familiar with series and parallel wiring from my experience with car audio installs. Would this mean I would have the UM506 in the outlet next to the switch and wires running into the switch? I'm picturing it and it doesn't look pretty with random wires running inside the switch in the wall, do I understand this right?
-
I'm familiar with series and parallel wiring from my experience with car audio installs. Would this mean I would have the UM506 in the outlet next to the switch and wires running into the switch? I'm picturing it and it doesn't look pretty with random wires running inside the switch in the wall, do I understand this right?
Well....unless you can figure a way of getting at the switch wires at the gas logs, AND/OR pulling new wires either from the switch or from the control in the fireplace, and pulling the wires to a different location where you can hide UM506...then yes, you understand this correctly.
BUT make sure the fireplace switch does indeed operate with low voltage from the fireplace.
-
Nuts. Ya, I'll cut the power at the breaker tonight and see if the fireplace still works. I won't actually get to the install for a while yet, I've had these units for a year or more so far and just haven't had time to figure out how to wire them. Now I know how to hook them to my fireplace and garage so eventually I'll get them installed.
Any idea how the UM506 gets wired with the 3 wires in the wall but only 2 contacts on the module? I believe there's a hot, ground and neutral in the wall if I remember correctly from swapping out the toggle light switch for a paddle light switch.
-
If there is only three wires in the switch box and one was ground.
Where the other two both on the switch?
If they where you have NO neutral just a switch loop.
White is no guarantee it is neutral if a switch loop is involved.
-
Deemar,
Brian brings up good point which made one of my remaining neurons fire.
Turning off master breaker for house and checking fireplace operation *should* tell you if fireplace is getting 120V from somewhere.
Also if you pull the plate off the switch and carefully slip the switch out of the wall box, if it is low voltage from fireplace like a UM506 can control, I would expect to see very small gauge wires like you would find on your HVAC thermostat or like telephone wiring in the walls. 24 gauge
IF however you find large gauge wire like normal power wires (14 or 12 gauge), then the switch may be controlling 120V and you do not want to use a UM506 for that!
-
Terribly sorry guys, it is only 2 wires on the switch and they're small. Plus I flipped the main breaker to the house which cut the entire house power and the switch still turned the fireplace on.
(http://www.danmaher.com/images/fireplaceswitch.jpg)
(http://www.danmaher.com/images/fireplace.jpg)
The CM11A is plugged into the CM17A which is plugged into a serial card on back of the desktop there and the CM11A is plugged into the wall just in front of the desktop.
-
Just set it up, works perfect. Thanks guys! Now I just have to figure out how to wire it so it doesn't look ugly. Maybe some sort of box on the wall to hide the wiring.
-
I hope all the information I gave was correct! :)%
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBUJsjlUbiY&feature=player_embedded