X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: camelot on December 30, 2009, 02:20:25 AM
-
So, i recently purchased a home that's equipped with the X-10 system, however, the former owner has no idea how it works! The lights and heat work off the system...i have a few remotes, but nothing is labeled. Where do I start?
-
Welcome to the world of X10 Automation and to the forums.
Do the Lights go on and off at certain times by themselves?
Do the Lights go on and off when you enter or leave a room?
Do any outside lights go on and off with motion in the yard or at dusk and dawn?
The remotes can they turn the heat and accessories on and off? Along with some lights.
Are there any modules with antennas plugged in to the wall outlets?
Are any of the lights or appliances plugged in to modules connected to the walls?
Any module you can find in an outlet should have a model number sticker on it. Post those numbera as well as the model numbers on the remotes.
Any numbers you can find will help in finding out whet you have.
From your description you house may have a central controller. Maybe an ELK or similar system. Anything in a wiring closet or mounted on the wall? Maybe a keypad or touch screen?
-
As Brian has asked already, you have to give a description of the system with as much detail as you can to enable members and experts to help you. Try to describe what behaviors (lights/sounds) you've observed; devices you know of and think that are part of the system, etc.
Go to these pages:
http://www.x10.com/home_automation/index.html
http://www.x10.com/products/
There are links and descriptions for x10 devices there. See if you have any of those devices in your house.
Let us know what you've got and folks here can better help you.
r,
eagle
-
Brian,
Yes, lights do go on and off by themselves at times. And the heat is controlled by the remotes, however, at this point, i'm only able to turn it on or off...i cant seem to regulate it. There are a couple modules with antennas and I recently purchased a maxi-controller. Each room has a 4-button keypad. There are 4 PCS LM4 lighting modules and 1 LM1 lighting modules. I'm able to get most of the lights on and off with the maxi, but the heated floors and furnaces(electric) are still a mystery as I have none of the house or unit codes. I'm wondering if there's some sort of (easy)computer program that I could hook up to this system to figure out what controls what. I'm at my wits end!
Mike
-
PCS? You mean Powerline Control Systems?
If this is the manufacturer of your system. It is not X10 it is UPB [Universal Powerline Buss] and is 100% different from X10.
They do make a UPB to X10 interface. By chance is there a PCS PW513 or XPW713 module somewhere in your setup? They allow a UPB system to also control X10 modules.
The LM1 and LM4 are UPB type from what I see on their web site.
Here is a link to the PCS UPB Documentation.
http://pulseworx.com/Downloads_.htm
You may want to go to a more generic automation site like the Cocoontech forums.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/
-
PCS? You mean Powerline Control Systems?
If this is the manufacturer of your system. It is not X10 it is UPB [Universal Powerline Buss] and is 100% different from X10.
Actually, PCS was one of the manufacturers of high-end X10 equipment until they discontinued that product line some time ago. I found references that the LM4 may indeed be a X10 compatible module.
Jeff
-
Good to know Jeff.
All I ever saw was the present UPB stuff.
So my previous post, about UPB, may not apply. If your modules where the high end X10 compatible style.
-
Ok, so what should I do now?
-
This is a very high end, one of a kind home, so i'm not surprised. The former owner had to leave on 'less than good terms' and I got a great deal on the home. As a result, NO information was left on how to run any of this. Local electricians are very reluctant to mess with it, and I cannot afford to fly in a representative to re-program my house.javascript:void(0);
-
Can you find any automatic controller, computer on 24/7 or maybe a touchscreen that may control the system?
-
Ok, so what should I do now?
If you checked the X10 links you see in general how X10 works. The PCS stuff is high end but uses the same "House Codes - Unit Codes"
Start investigating at your end, because we can't at ours.
Are the remotes all X10?
Since you have lights coming on and off with out your action (and I am excluding obvious light triggered by motion detectors) it may have a computer running the show somewhere. If a computer isn't obvious, look for an interface hidden somewhere. Could be X10, or Smarthome (small white plastic box), or something larger attached to a wall, usually in garage, basement, or utility room i.e. Oscelot, JDS, etc. Thes examples can be programmed by a computer and then run atonomously.
As for the floors and furnace, you are talking high power so there has to be some X10, PCS, Smarthome modules controlling power to these units. Have you located anything like that?
As far as a computer program. The X10 home automation interface CM15A and AHP software will monitor the powerline in the home and tell you all the X10 codes on the powerline and the time the code was sent. You may be able to use that to tell you what X10 codes are controlling what lights, fans, furnace, floor, etc. But it will be a laborious project. When something changes state you will have to check the Activity Log to see what the code sent was.
-
Sorry Brian I just stepped on you again. I think we are both going down same road. Camalot just needs to do some investigating.
-
No problem as you added things like the names of common controllers that I did not have in my message.
camelot. You may also want to see if you can identify the thermostats controlling the heat. Some could be interfaced with the controllers dave w mentioned.
-
Yes, i just purchased a maxi-controller...there was already a mini-controller(a-p, 1-16). In some of the outlets are Radio Shack plug n power...powerhouse powerline interface...and powerhouse tranceiver module. In the control room, in addition to the black PCS boxes, is a circuit board labeled Home Base Pro. I found another device near an outlet(not plugged in) labeled Lantronix UDS-10. On it is a port for cat 5...the other side has a port/adaptor with a Null Modem port.
I hope you all can understand my layman's way of describing these devices, i've never worked with this equipment before. I would love to just have an assigned code for each device.
Also, there are no thermostats in the house! As stated earlier, i use the mini and maxi controller to either turn on or off the heat so it's either very cold or very warm. There are however, these 'mystery boxes' in two of the rooms that look like they could be thermostats, only there are no switches, sliders or temp settings on them. It's just a 2" by 3" tan plastic box with circuits/wiring inside.
Is this ANY help? LOL
-
Home Base Pro is the controller. It had both direct wired and X10 PLC capabilities. It is old, I can not find information on it which may indicate they are out of business. I can not remember the company that made Home Base...maybe HAI? and I think it used HAL for software. HAL was an early voice recognition controller software which is still around.
There should be a RS232 serial connector on the board for computer hook up (may be USB but as I recall was an old serial connection). The "Powerhouse Powerline Interface" is the interface that couples HBP to the powerline for X10 control. There is a "traffic" LED on the powerline interface, does it flash when you push a button on a remote? Any LEDs on the HBP board lit up? If the Home Base Pro is still operational it will have all the X10 modules HCUC in the database. Also it COULD be controlling your HVAC and it will likely be hard wired to thermometer(s) in the home. Hopefully somewhere there should be a CD of the HAL software because it is fairly expensive to purchase.
HBP may be controlling your furnace by direct wire to the furnace thermostat terminals. Otherwise you might have a X10 Universal Module near the furnace controlling it, but X10 signal has always had reliability issues so HVAC control was usually a hard wired portion of the system. Does the Home Base Pro board have a bunch of wires (likely twisted pair, thermostat wire, telephone wire, or Cat 5) going to it? Those wires (depending on number, could be for security, HVAC, phone line interface, etc.
Hope this helps some, you have your work cut out.
-
Link to the UDS10 Manual:
http://www.lantronix.com/pdf/UDS10-UDS100_UG.pdf
-
O-o-o-o-h-h
This is beginning to make sense. The home is automated and I bet the automating contractor maintains control of the home over phone line or internet. That way he gets to charge a fee everytime the owner wants something changed. i.e. Owner: "Can the pool lights come on earlier next Friday for our pool party?" Contractor: "Sure 'thatallbe' 50 bucks".
Camalot, you need to find out who the home automation/security contractor is. Any business cards thumb tacked on the wall in this "control room"?
-
Nope, no business cards around. This home had been uninhabited for quite some time, no utilities on, etc. Again, I believe the original homeowner was somewhat disgruntled when he 'left' several years ago.
Dave, from what neighbors tell me, the house had some kind of voice recognition system. The interface does blink when I use the remote. The leds on the HBP are always blinking and lighting up, even when i'm not using the remote. No Cd's anywhere. The HBP does has all sorts of wires going into it, including CAT 5, thermostat wire and speaker wire.
You guys have been a great help so far, as I'm sure you can tell, i'm not very hi-tech savy. Let me ask you this: If you were in my situation, what would you do? Is this something that could be fixed? And at what cost? Can you come over? LOL! Just trying to figure out where to start...
-
You guys have been a great help so far, as I'm sure you can tell, I'm not very hi-tech savy. Let me ask you this: If you were in my situation, what would you do? Is this something that could be fixed? And at what cost? Can you come over? LOL! Just trying to figure out where to start...
1. Being an old guy who is still techno geekish, I would try and salvage, only because it sounds like Home Base Pro is so heavily entwined in the house it might be as much problem and expense to divorce the two as to try and salvage the system.
2. Probably, but how much time and money you have to throw at it is the answer.
3. See #2
4. Doubt it, mom won't let me cross road by myself. Where are you at? We might be neighbors and not know it although I live in the middle of an Indiana corn field (sorta).
Camelot, this may be easy and cheap if you get very lucky, here is what I would do if in your situation.
1. Try and find the original contractor though the original owner or the neighbor who continually saw the "Bob's Home Automation and Bait Shop" van parked outside the house.
2. Depending on the location of this estate, check yellow pages for home automation and security companies within 20 miles and call each one asking if they ever customized the home.
3. Scour the home for anything, any paperwork indicating automation contractor.
4. Contact selling realtor who may know more details.
5. It sounds like the house was built for Home Base system so do you know the original construction contractor? (realtor may know).
If I hit brick walls at every turn I would take a weeks vacation and, I being technical, would try a trace every wire on Home Base to get a picture of how entertwined it is. I might even spend 300 bucks and buy HAL taking a big chance that I would be able to connect to Home Base and get it to talk to me. Truthfully, I would be having fun.
Unfortunately you would probably not consider it fun so you might consider calling in a HVAC contractor to at least get the furnace and floors working. Try and find a honest contractor because right now you will look like fresh meat to a shark. Most X10 wall switches have local control so I would continue using them unless there was lights I could not control and that would require an electrician so again try and use someone you know.
You could also put classified add in local newspaper advertising for someone who knows Home Base Pro equipment. Do the same in the various internet user groups dedicated to home automation. Brian H can probably supply more user groups names than I. I just frequent the X10 forum, and Cocoon tech.com.
Brian H do you know if Robert Bass is still with us? I think he used to sell Home Base.
Again good luck.
-
Sorry I don't know if Robert Bass is here any more.
camelot;
Have you tried Cocoontechs forums. They are a much more generic Automation Site and some of the long time users may have added data on the controller and some of the modules you have found. They also have much information on video audio and HVAC controls there. Not that we don't enjoy helping you here.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/
-
.. If you were in my situation, what would you do?
If it was MY problem.. or if I were YOU. I would rip it all out. There is no way to tell what the previous guy did.. or what he was thinking... or how close to code the setup is.. or isn't.
If it were ME: I would do all the work myself and save all the old parts. Later I would redesign my own automation setup.. maybe using some of the old parts.
If I were YOU: I'd get an electrician or electrical contractor to remove all the automation and replace switches and such with regular items. Making sure the house is safely up to code.
-
$0.02
I would bet it is to code. I don't think its an owner hack job, but I suspect the automation contractor is out of business, otherwise he would have probably tried to leave a business card in the door etc knowing that the next owner would need his services.
-
It might be worth looking in the yellow pages for home automation equipment installers in your area, and calling those places to see if any of them did the installation. PCS was top of the line. Since this was a high-end installation, I certainly wouldn't rip it all out and start over.
If you can't recover the program from an installer, you could either have it reprogrammed to your requirements, or opt for a newer controller that can interface with the existing HVAC equipment.
JDS and Elk probably have controllers that will do the job.
Jeff
-
The original owner WAS the architect, designer, builder, installer etc. The home was the first automated of it's kind(or at least in this part of the country...northeast PA). Very unique design, looks like it should be on a cliff in Malibu or on a beach in Miami Vice. Earthquake proof, hurricane proof etc. I just can't regulate the heat, LOL. I've got some work to do... B:(
-
The original owner WAS the architect, designer, builder, installer etc. The home was the first automated of it's kind(or at least in this part of the country...northeast PA). Very unique design, looks like it should be on a cliff in Malibu or on a beach in Miami Vice. Earthquake proof, hurricane proof etc. I just can't regulate the heat, LOL. I've got some work to do... B:(
I'd try and make friends with that guy. He probably still has system drawings, software, etc. Perhaps an out and out bribe of food, candy, and perhaps adult beverage. ;D
-
I was checking my archived X10 files today and was greeted by a surprise. I found a folder called PCS and in it was some old manuals. One on the PCS Scene Master Lighting System version 2.0 programming. ;D
-
I have some PCS switches...they have an 'air gap' by pushing down hard on the off side of it, then you turn the switch back on and then hold down both on and off until it starts blinking then you're in programming mode 1
-
Though discontinued. One of the on line vendors never purged them from their web site and the manuals are still there. :)
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/PCS/
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/PCS/Item/MM2LS-800/moreInfo/
-
Could this system be itegrated into mine?
http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=42&products_id=261
-
A couple random thoughts:
Where can I learn more about operating my homebase pro?
And in my control room, there are a few (relay?) switches...they look like outlets but they have little lights that are plugged into them...they click on and off randomly. What might their function be?
-
Could this system be itegrated into mine?
http://www.asihome.com/ASIshop/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=42&products_id=261
I thought HAL was the original software for HomeBase but that as way wrong.
I can't even find who made HomeBase, but did find this
http://www.hansotten.com/attersjo/jdsTcPlus.html
Which states HomeBase and JDS Time Commander Plus are similar. Hal 2000 claims to interface to JDS TCP so Home Automated Living might be able to answer your question. BTW, I believe HomeBase Pro is HomeBase with expanded I/O.
ALso JDS has been around since the mid 1980's so if you decided to rip out HomeBase because of obsolescence but still want hardwire and X10 automation, you might look at JDS.
-
B:( B:( Ughh...now the heating unit is blowing cold...i think i'm falling even deeper into the abyss here. In the most simple terms...is there ANY way to enter new house and/or unit codes on the homeBase pro system(or anything else) using mini and maxi controllers to at least control the heat??
-
Camelot, x10 does not make any heating controls. The best I have seen from them is a thermostat setback controller which is just a little box that gets mounted under your thermostat that fools it into thinking it is warmer than it is.
First off, to get you SOME temporary heat. open the panel on your furnace and look for where a set of colored wires are attached. Look for a red and a white wire. This should be 24 volts AC (red wire), and heat (white wire, may be connected to a terminal labeled W, W1 or W2). If you have a volt meter , check between the red wire and either a blue, black or brown wire. If you read 24 volts there, take a short piece of wire and connect between the terminals where the red and white wires are connected. This should turn on the heat stage of your furnace. If you want for now you can connect a switch between these two until you get this figured out. Here is some information on furnace wiring and how to figure out the other wire colors if you need to (http://www.toad.net/~jsmeenen/wiring.html)
NOW, follow the set of colored wires that you found in the previous step. See if they go to some other kind of box/controller. If so, see if you can find any kind of brand or model number on it. If you find such a box, see if there are any other wires run to it, and where they go. You may find that they run to your homebase controller. If so, you may want to just wire in a thermostat yourself. Here is some info on wiring in a thermostat should you need to go that route (http://highperformancehvac.com/thermostats_2.html).
I hope some of this information is helpful.
Dan Bemowski
-
B:( B:( Ughh...now the heating unit is blowing cold...i think i'm falling even deeper into the abyss here. In the most simple terms...is there ANY way to enter new house and/or unit codes on the homeBase pro system(or anything else) using mini and maxi controllers to at least control the heat??
From your descriptions the HVAC temp sensors (two of them, you said) are hard wired to HomeBase and HomeBase is then hardwired to the furnace. Although you said X10 commands could start and stop the furnace HomeBase is in charge of all the regulation. Which apparently ain't happening.
dbemowsk is suggesting a workaround which should get you unregulated heat.
Those two wall boxes in the two rooms are probably temperature sensors, hard wired to HomeBase (are either of them near cold air return?). At minimum these will be a twisted pair, but if you are real lucky they could be wired with conventional thermostat wire and you could substitute a cheap HVAC thermostat. You would then have to find where that line is wired to HomeBase and rewire to the furnace control line (which should be also wired into HomeBase). This would take HomeBase out of the loop and give you normal temperature control. Since HomeBase isn't around anymore I would consider replacing with JDS Time commander Pro or similar. Otherwise Dave X10 suggestion ripping the whole thing out might look good to you right now.