X10 Community Forum

💬General Category => General Discussion => X10 Product Wish List => Topic started by: Dan Lawrence on August 03, 2010, 10:24:31 PM

Title: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on August 03, 2010, 10:24:31 PM
Is it too much to ask of X10USA for a new STABLE version of AHP.   The last stable version is 3.228, over two years ago.  The next two, 3.236 and 3.271 were buggy,  3.271 was 3.236 "hacked" to support the VA12A.   
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Knightrider on August 03, 2010, 11:13:40 PM
3.236 supports the va12a.

Could you mean the CM19A?
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Brian H on August 04, 2010, 06:10:01 AM
I believe 3.271 added the CM19A and the UX17A IR Commander.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: pconroy on August 04, 2010, 09:15:46 AM
Is it too much to ask of X10USA for a new STABLE version of AHP.   The last stable version is 3.228, over two years ago.  The next two, 3.236 and 3.271 were buggy,  3.271 was 3.236 "hacked" to support the VA12A.   


I can't think of a reason why they won't opensource the base AHP package.
"Give away the razors; sell the blades," approach.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: nybuck on August 04, 2010, 10:11:19 AM
I would have to agree. 

Based on what I have seen, if AHP was open source, the users here would have that thing 'humming' !!
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2010, 10:24:49 AM
RANT ON

Is it my imagination, or is X10's quality really spiralling down?
Triac based light controllers that only turn off half way, receptacles with piece parts that only endure operation for a month before breaking, software that can't seem to get timers to turn things on or off, three different versions of the same light module/switch all with the same model number and all responding differently to simple "ON" commands, poorly written instructions that do not clearly instruct a new user that only one wireless camera can be on at once, thus only one image is active, even on a quad screen, camera software that takes a computer science PHD to massage it into working, "low light" cameras that require 300 watts of night time illumination to see an image, instructions that so vaguely address noise and coupling problems that one would think they are inconsequential, security systems with internal PC boards captivated with screws so short that chewing gum would work as well. etc. etc. etc.

X10 needs to hire a "real" quality engineer at the corporate level. Even adopting the semblance of the lowest level of ISO 9000 would improve things dramatically.

I think the only thing saving X10's bacon right now is this forum, and the high cost of Z-wave, and competitive security / video products.

RANT OFF
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dr.Fiero on August 04, 2010, 10:45:16 AM
RANT ON

I think the only thing saving X10's bacon right now is this forum, and the high cost of Z-wave, and competitive security / video products.

RANT OFF

That, and an apparent advertising budget so massive...  well...  if they maybe spent the advertising budget on quality control and GOOD primary engineering...  we could stop ranting! (in the mean time though - do continue!)
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: JeffVolp on August 04, 2010, 11:22:11 AM
Is it my imagination, or is X10's quality really spiralling down?

We live in a world where low price is the primary driver.  There are few companies out there today whose goal is to produce a quality product that lasts for years.  The fact that we can purchase X10 modules as cheaply as we can means that corners have to be cut in the manufacturing and support.

It is incredible that most X10 devices can work as well as they do considering how inexpensive they are compared with competing products from other companies.  The only major issue that should be addressed is is a better way to deal powerline noise than adding filters to every noise generator.

Jeff
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2010, 12:20:56 PM
I hear you, but disagree on at least one point. When your corner cutting to maintain margin turns your products into crap, you are hurting your own sales and is counter productive. Some of the forum complaints we have seen lately smacks of little or no manufacturing quality control at all, other than the consumer being the "end of line" quality inspector. 

I used to work for a "Six Sigma" and ISO 9000 (9004) company whose mantra was "quality, quality, quality". So I might be a little overly critical of X10 (especially since said company is now slowing going out of business) but X10 used to have better quality (selective memory?).

I would be curious to know what some of their product volumes are. Obviously if you make 10,000 wigets a day, you are going to have a few bad ones.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: JeffVolp on August 04, 2010, 01:11:39 PM
When your corner cutting to maintain margin turns your products into crap, you are hurting your own sales and is counter productive.

I totally agree with you.  That is the reason I will not consider buying a Sony product again.  Years ago they had a reputation for a quality product, and I had no problem with their higher price because of that.  After a run of bad Sony products in the 90's, I vowed never to buy that brand again.  Their XBR TV was a reliability nightmare that started breaking down during the warranty period.  The high-voltage supply, low-voltage supply, AGC, tuner, and sound all crapped out.

We know up front that with X10 we are not buying quality.  We are buying functionality as cheaply as possible.  I think that in most cases we get that.

Jeff

Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Brian H on August 04, 2010, 01:15:51 PM
We saw the samething with the Insteon SwitchLinc switches.
The picked a surface mounted tact switch the paddles actuated.
After a while they became intermittent.
Eventually so many where failing. They could not blame customer induced problems.
Ended up costing them money as they are now replacing any switch with tact switch problems at no cost. Even if it is out of the two year normal warranty.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2010, 02:00:14 PM
After a run of bad Sony products in the 90's, I vowed never to buy that brand again. 
Yeah, when shopping for a new flat panel TV for bedroom, I noticed Samsung and even Vizio (Vizio!!) had sharper picture than Sony and Sharp.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: nybuck on August 04, 2010, 05:14:50 PM
Dave W - I really want to argue with your X10-bashing, thoroughly critical rant!

But momma told me not to lie....   :angel:

So, yeah, X10 gives us marginal quality, and a CHEAP price.  We try for hours, and some times days to get it to work.  We try in vain to get some customer service/support on the phone.  We ask other users for their best advice here on the forums...  When all that fails, we desperately beg X10 for a refund or exchange.  We (I know I have) swear we will never buy from X10 again...  Then they send us those incessant "deals" and we make another order!  It's almost a disease!!
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on August 04, 2010, 05:42:10 PM
X10 did the Same Thing with Active Home.  The last version of Active Home was buggy, so we pretty much stayed with the next to last version, much like AHP 3.228 is the last good version.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: JeffVolp on August 04, 2010, 05:56:27 PM
X10 did the Same Thing with Active Home.  The last version of Active Home was buggy, so we pretty much stayed with the next to last version, much like AHP 3.228 is the last good version.

From someone who has been programming since the birth of microprocessors (and FORTRAN before that), I can say software and firmware are difficult to maintain over time.

The people involved with the original development often either leave the company or are on other projects when maintenance issues arise.  Even code that is well commented can be difficult to understand when one has been away from it for a period of time.

Adding features can be especially difficult because of the possibility of breaking something that has been working fine all along.  Except in certain cases, far more testing is done during program development than the retesting following a change.  So, it is easy for new bugs to slip through the cracks.

Jeff
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2010, 07:37:13 PM
Dave W - I really want to argue with your X10-bashing, thoroughly critical rant!

Yeah, sorry. That's what happens when I don't take my Zoloft, Zanax, lithium, and Thorizine for three days in a row.    :'
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on August 04, 2010, 07:45:55 PM
Adding features can be especially difficult because of the possibility of breaking something that has been working fine all along. 

' wonder if they beta'ed the end stinks Nstinct?   rofl
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: nybuck on August 04, 2010, 07:54:25 PM
That's precisely why I want to wait a few months - until the second batch of remotes...

You never buy a car the first year in production, and never buy an X10 "new" device...   ;)
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 23, 2010, 07:43:39 PM
For those of us who don't or need any of the plug-ins for AHP, how about a version of AHP that does not allow any of the plug-ins.  Should be easy to produce.  You only register AHP, no plug-ins appear on the opening screen.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: J.B. on October 23, 2010, 08:21:28 PM
Quote
For those of us who don't or need any of the plug-ins for AHP, how about a version of AHP that does not allow any of the plug-ins.  Should be easy to produce.  You only register AHP, no plug-ins appear on the opening screen.

The plug-ins list showing with only AHP installed shouldn't cause any plug-in related issues.
You also shouldn't be nagged to register any plug-ins if none are installed.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 23, 2010, 09:05:18 PM
It doesn't affect anything, but the intro screen is now cluttered with 7 greyed out plug-ins, so it's kind of a "plug" for the plug-ins.  If X10 keeps adding more plug-ins to the 7 they have now, the into screen is going to get bigger.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: J.B. on October 24, 2010, 09:35:51 AM
I agree it would make more sense to have the splash screen only show any plug-ins that are currently installed.
There is pop-up until disabled and a menu that shows featured plug-ins if anyone has the need to check these.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: rnorton888 on October 24, 2010, 10:43:36 AM
Although I have been with X10 for over 10 years myself and at times have been vary unhappy to the point I have put my stuff in the closet. I see after 5 years of no upgrades or new products some  new stuff coming out. The newest 3.293 seems pretty good.
More importantly I have actually seen Programmers taking part on the bulletin board alot and listening to the users. This is a big step and my hat is off to them for a change since I am always vary quit to scream as well when something does not work.
Not only have I had them respond to my posts but they have called me with out me having to beg them to call me. I actually had one call me on Saturday and wanted to make sure my problem was resolved.
Great to see X10 following through with stuff for a change. Wounder if we have new management or they just have a new Contract with someone.
Thanks again
Randy
 #:)
PS one could always wish it was 9.293
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 24, 2010, 10:49:36 AM
It's not 9.293, It's 3.393.  All releases of AHP begin with 3.  Apparently versions 1 and 2 were never released.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: J.B. on October 24, 2010, 11:09:41 AM
Quote
It's not 9.293, It's 3.393.

Actually, it's 3.293.  >!
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 24, 2010, 04:28:41 PM
Thank you, I do get an attack of fumble finger every one in a while. I do know it's 3.293.  I'm currently using it minus any plug-ins.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dr.Fiero on October 24, 2010, 06:25:39 PM
I installed 3.293 yesterday (in an empty directory), then all the plugins.

Fired it up, and....  the plugins were all showing 'registered'...  but AHP itself wasn't!   :-\

Stuffed in the reg' code for it, but no dice - said 'not recognized' or something to the effect.
Guess I'll have to call X10 Monday with a few drinks and snacks for the 2hrs I'll no doubt spend on hold.    :'
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on October 24, 2010, 06:45:26 PM
I keep my AHP Registration Code in a .txt file in my X10 Backup Disk, so I always have it available.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: anthonylavado on October 24, 2010, 08:19:46 PM
I installed 3.293 yesterday (in an empty directory), then all the plugins.

Fired it up, and....  the plugins were all showing 'registered'...  but AHP itself wasn't!   :-\

Stuffed in the reg' code for it, but no dice - said 'not recognized' or something to the effect.
Guess I'll have to call X10 Monday with a few drinks and snacks for the 2hrs I'll no doubt spend on hold.    :'


If you installed ActivePhone, it doesn't show up as an independent plugin - it just shows up as ActiveHome Pro, and requires the ActivePhone registration code in that spot.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dr.Fiero on October 25, 2010, 12:04:55 PM
I keep all my reg codes etc in a folder in Gmail so I always have access to them - so that's not the problem.

"Did not find registration code" was the exact wording of the error response.

Funny thing is - it was fine earlier that day!  I installed the new 3.293, and that's when the failure started.
(as I said though - it recognizes all the plug in reg codes!)

Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on November 13, 2010, 09:12:06 AM
I note if you totally uninstall AHP fully (the uninstaller allows total uninstall including the two folders that AHP creates) almost every version runs correctly.  I listed 3.271 as a buggy version along with 3.326, but right now I'm running 3.271 with no problems and I've run up to 3.296 with no problems.  I suspect just installing a new version over an older one in a couple of years results in a lot of detritus from older versions that may cause problems.   

I don't use any plug-ins (don't need any).  I went back to 3.271 because the entry screen in 296 is so big if you don't use plug-ins you get ActiveHome Pro in orange and 7 greyed out plug-ins in a window so big it blocks your room for 10 seconds  
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: J.B. on November 13, 2010, 09:16:07 AM
Quote
I went back to 3.271 because the entry screen in 296 is so big if you don't use plug-ins you get ActiveHome Pro in orange and 7 greyed out plug-ins in a window so big it blocks your room for 10 seconds

Try clicking on the plug-ins splash screen, it'll instantly vanish and you don't have to wait for it to show all the registered plug-in icons.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: akeene on April 10, 2011, 11:13:41 PM
Ver 3.310 is out. check it out
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP(careful what you ask for)
Post by: lodtrack on April 11, 2011, 05:24:49 AM
The thread started with a stability question but quickly spread to issues of quality control etc. I see many of you in this forum with thousands of posts and high percentage helpful ratings. It makes me wonder what you would do with your spare time if X10 worked as it should?  :D
When I'm having a bad day,(fewer now that I'm retired) I read posts here. The frustration level of some Newbie's always makes me feel better!

   X10 stuff does work but mostly takes the patience of Jobe to get there. My comment to my friends is that X10 stuff is a "solution to no problem"
The recent example is my attempt to set up the old security console, Vanguard complete with 2 Ninja's and AHP with all plugins and Myhouse online.
I got it all working after reading many helpful posts here of which some of you contributed. I felt empowered to have conquered the hardware and software problems presented by X10.

   With the cheapest state of the art security system now working (and the X10 disease presently in remission), I wonder if it is time to start locking the doors to my home. In this small Northern Ontario community, we never do.....   ;)
   
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: dave w on April 11, 2011, 10:37:35 AM
IMHO X10 would be out of business if not for this forum. I wonder if they agree?
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: systemdm on April 11, 2011, 12:10:16 PM
Not sure about them, but I definitely agree.
Title: Re: A New Stable version of AHP
Post by: Dan Lawrence on April 11, 2011, 02:31:36 PM
IMHO X10 would be out of business if not for this forum. I wonder if they agree?

Since X10 does not mass market (there were a couple of attempts in the early 90's, but all seem to vanish rapidly) the only way new people find out about it if they get sent through the web to the X10 parent site via one of the search engines. I got turned on to X10 in the middle 1980s by a friend who already had X10, my first was with a CP-290 computer interface and DOS software (bought at a Heath Store (Long gone) on Joppa Road in Baynesville (a suburb of Baltimore)  I was hooked!!!  When Windows ran on DOS, I got freeware that allowed you to create custom icons for your modules and talked to the CP-290.  That was replaced by the CM11A and Active Home, which was replaced by the CM15A and ActiveHome Pro when Windows XP came alone and my motherboard kept loosing and finding the CM11A.  My wife LOVES X10, we NEVER come home to a dark house.