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🛡Home Security => Home Security General => Topic started by: vermiform on September 23, 2010, 11:19:57 PM
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What's the longest range I can get in an OUTDOOR environment with X-10 Motion sensors like the Eagle Eye?
What I have in mind is using several Eagle Eye motion sensors outdoors while camping to monitor a few trails. What I want to do is monitor these sensors from a laptop using the PC USB interface and probably run some 3rd party software that lets you draw your own floor plan, except we'll draw a crude map and label the sensors. We are building a mobile basecamp so I can power the interface through an inverter. Antenna mods are very doable (I'm a handy kind of guy) and if necessary I can put a large one on the base camp.
One more crazy question for you guys: Do you think you could mod switch modules to work with DC? Like say to power 12 volt flood lights or even some IR LED light arrays? I want to say I saw a relay a long time ago that allowed control of some DC applications.
Range to the motion sensors is going to be the most important aspect if I'm going to go this route. Do you think 50 yards is out of the question?
Thanks in advance for putting your thinking caps on -:)
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X10 modules have to be run on 120 Volts AC. All X10 signals are timed to the AC swinging through zero crossing. No zero crossing no X10 timed signals.
The UM506 universal module has a set of isolated switch contacts that can control DC voltage switching of 24 volts or less.
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Range to the motion sensors is going to be the most important aspect if I'm going to go this route. Do you think 50 yards is out of the question?
Yes, 50 yards is out of the question. Even with the antenna mods for the "USB interface" (which one??? I assume you are refering to the CM15A, because there is no antenna mod for the CM19A and trying to use the CM19 would create quit a Rube Goldberg operation anyway) you will be lucky to get even 100 feet RF transmission range in a clearing, considerably less if in the woods. I hope you were not asking about motion detection range because the Eagle Eye under ideal condaitions is only about 20 feet.
The X10 software for the CM15A is "Active Home Pro" and unfortunately you can not use your own graphics in AHP. There are automation programs which will interface to the CM15A and will accept user graphics via an add-on program (Homeseer in one, but is fairly expensive).
BTW: one thing Brian forgot to mention: You can run a CM15A and a UM506 (which would give you a relay closure for the 12V lighting) from an inverter but it must be a "true sine wave" inverter, not a "modified sine wave" inverter. And those babies aren't cheap either.
Another BTW: X10 motion sensors are not likely to detect small animals, 'course if you want to detect big animals (bears, moose, deer, poachers rofl, etc) they will do that.
Personally, I don't think you can get there from here, on the road you want to travel.
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Range to the motion sensors is going to be the most important aspect if I'm going to go this route. Do you think 50 yards is out of the question?
Yes, 50 yards is out of the question. Even with the antenna mods for the "USB interface" (which one??? I assume you are refering to the CM15A, because there is no antenna mod for the CM19A and trying to use the CM19 would create quit a Rube Goldberg operation anyway) you will be lucky to get 100 feet RF transmission range in a clearing, less if in the woods.
The X10 software for the CM15A is "Active Home Pro" and unfortunately you can not use your own graphics in AHP. There are automation programs which will interface to the CM15A and will accept user graphics via an add-on program (Homeseer in one, but is fairly expensive).
BTW: one thing Brian forgot to mention: You can run a CM15A and a UM506 (which would give you a relay closure for the 12V lighting) from an inverter but it must be a "true sine wave" inverter, not a "modified sine wave" inverter. And those babies aren't cheap either.
Another BTW: X10 motion sensors are not likely to detect small animals, 'course if you want to detect big animals (bears, moose, deer, poachers rofl, etc) they will do that.
Personally, I don't think you can get there from here, on the road you want to travel.
Durn! They were going to be used for Hogs. We are overrun with them in Louisiana and they started allowing night time pork harvesting. I'm sure these are big enough to set off the sensors, but 100 foot range isn't gonna be very usefull to us. Is there a way to build/attach a directional antenna to the motion sensors themselves, like maybe an improvised yagi or can-tenna and point them back at the mobile base camp? If you open up an eagle eye motion sensor, can you see a physical antenna inside to mod?
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Is there a way to build/attach a directional antenna to the motion sensors themselves, like maybe an improvised yagi or can-tenna and point them back at the mobile base camp? If you open up an eagle eye motion sensor, can you see a physical antenna inside to mod?
O-o-o-h-h now you are talking!
A directional from the motion sensor MIGHT work. Yes the antenna in an Eagle is a small board mounted loop antenna in the lower left corner of the PC board. However the antenna makes up part of the oscillator circuit, so direct coupling will probably throw off the TX frequency (310mHz) far enough that the receiver in the CM15A might reject it. But your idea of a directional on the MS is a good one, maybe someone else could recommend some type of buffered coupling.
Corrected antenna location.
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O-o-o-h-h now you are talking!
A directional from the motion sensor MIGHT work. Yes the antenna in an Eagle is a small board mounted loop antenna in the upper left corner of the PC board. However the antenna makes up part of the oscillator circuit, so direct coupling will probably throw off the TX frequency (310mHz) far enough that the receiver in the CM15A might reject it. But your idea of a directional on the MS is a good one, maybe someone else could recommend some type of buffered coupling.
Lost me. I know my way around a soldiering iron, so I'd need to know what to buy and where to soldier it. You think I could install an external jack on the motion sensors then build some mini can-tennas to plug into said jack?
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O-o-o-h-h now you are talking!
A directional from the motion sensor MIGHT work. Yes the antenna in an Eagle is a small board mounted loop antenna in the upper left corner of the PC board. However the antenna makes up part of the oscillator circuit, so direct coupling will probably throw off the TX frequency (310mHz) far enough that the receiver in the CM15A might reject it. But your idea of a directional on the MS is a good one, maybe someone else could recommend some type of buffered coupling.
Lost me. I know my way around a soldiering iron, so I'd need to know what to buy and where to soldier it. You think I could install an external jack on the motion sensors then build some mini can-tennas to plug into said jack?
Don't know. My guess is: trying to attach anything directly to the antenna loop will shut down the transmitter. Eagles are cheap enough to buy one and try it. You will need a tranceiver to pick up the RF from the Eagle Eye to verify it will work. The TM751 is cheap.
FWIW here is layout and schematic for X10 MS14 the Eagle Eye is essentially identical in the transmitter area. http://www.edcheung.com/automa/ms14a.htm
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I'm going to go ahead and get the CM15A anyway. I've been putting off building an x-10 PC alarm system for a few years now, and I've been wanting something to silently send emails to me if my house was breached. I moved and built a house out in the woods 3 years ago and haven't fitted this one for automation yet and I miss it. If I can get the motion detectors to do what I want for Hog Harvesting, then I'll just buy another one. Is ebay still the best place to buy a bunch of bulk switches, sensors etc? Do we have any forum members here that i can buy from so I can support the community?
One last question. The door and window magnet swtiches; do they work with the CM15A and software to run macros?
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How about a modified version of this on the CM19a?
http://people.wallawalla.edu/~Rob.Frohne/Airport/Primestar/Primestar.html
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Is ebay still the best place to buy a bunch of bulk switches, sensors etc? Do we have any forum members here that i can buy from so I can support the community?
One last question. The door and window magnet swtiches; do they work with the CM15A and software to run macros?
1. I would at least check X10.com. They run some really good "X for one" price specials for select modules. i.e 8 Appliance Modules, 8 Lamp Modules plus a Palm Pad and a TM751 transceiver for $50 is pretty hard to beat.
http://www.x10.com/promotions/hr12a_sd_rca_kit_wow.html
These are the "Certified Like New" specials, we (forum regulars) speculate they may be product returns from dissatisfied customers, but the X10 warranty and return policy is in effect. I just bought four WS467 wall switches for $20 and they are fine.
2. I think you need the "On Alert" plug-in for the CM15A / AHP, but yes the "security" sensors and motion detectors will work with AHP if you have the software plug-in. If you look at the link, near bottom, a complete 21 piece DS7000 security system for $80. It is cheaper to buy a system and use only the sensors than try to buy individual components.
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One last question. The door and window magnet swtiches; do they work with the CM15A and software to run macros?
I've used DS10's to trigger macros... but only when run from the pc (OnAlert is loaded but I don't have a security system), not from the CM15A when the pc is off.
Mel
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I'd buy the Door/Window sensors 7 for $19.99 http://www.x10.com/promotions/ds10a_ed_pk_1m_promo.html (http://www.x10.com/promotions/ds10a_ed_pk_1m_promo.html)
(bottom of the page)
and the "as new" CM15A with sensors and plugins for $34.99 http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_ed_twenty_sd.html (http://www.x10.com/promotions/cm15a_ed_twenty_sd.html)
(bottom of page gives you the OnAlert (alarm) plugin and a few modules)
The appliance modules have relays in them that can be modified to switch external power (e.g. 12v power) or you could plug a 120v to 12 volt power supply in the appliance module to power 12v lighting. I would trust Dave W that you would need an expensive true sine wave inverter, although I have never tried it myself.
Good Luck! ;D
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Anyway to get this to send signals to a CM15A?
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/X-10-Pro/Item/PMS01/ (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/X-10-Pro/Item/PMS01/)
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That is the X10Pro version of the X10 MS10A.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Security_Motion_Sensor
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That is the X10Pro version of the X10 MS10A.
http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Security_Motion_Sensor
Right, but I was wondering if it will send signals to the CMA15A where I can then have it trigger a macro. It says they work only with the DS7000 security system and will not send it's own signal to activate a switch. It has an extended transmission range, greater than the eagle eye, right?
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Right, but I was wondering if it will send signals to the CMA15A where I can then have it trigger a macro. It says they work only with the DS7000 security system and will not send it's own signal to activate a switch. It has an extended transmission range, greater than the eagle eye, right?
The CM15A with the "On Alert" plug-in can understand a DS10A. I am not sure about the range part. The DS7000 security system base has a better antenna than the CM15A, so "better range" may be a function of the base antenna.
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I agree. I don't think the MS10A or the DS10A have any greater distance range over the standard X10 motion sensors. When used with the CM15A as it is not known for great reception distances. That is why we have antenna modification threads here.
The WGL V572RF32 all house code receiver. Can receive the RF security signals and map them to a standard X10 power line code. Along with receiving standard RF X10 codes.
Many have reported much better reception from RF devices with any model of the V572 line. The standard V572 doesn't process the security coded RF.
http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html
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I agree. I don't think the MS10A or the DS10A have any greater distance range over the standard X10 motion sensors. When used with the CM15A as it is not known for great reception distances. That is why we have antenna modification threads here.
The WGL V572RF32 all house code receiver. Can receive the RF security signals and map them to a standard X10 power line code. Along with receiving standard RF X10 codes.
Many have reported much better reception from RF devices with any model of the V572 line. The standard V572 doesn't process the security coded RF.
http://www.wgldesigns.com/v572.html
Now we are talking! So this piece of equipment hears the signal from the motion sensor then blasts it out again to the CM15A? (in my case)
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It sends a power line signal back to the CM15A.
So as long as you don't have power line issues. Like signal suckers; noise makers or opposite phase problems. It would work fine.
If there is an X10 module on the address it sends. It could be controlled directly.
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It sends a power line signal back to the CM15A.
So as long as you don't have power line issues. Like signal suckers; noise makers or opposite phase problems. It would work fine.
If there is an X10 module on the address it sends. It could be controlled directly.
But my only option to power the whole setup will be a power inverter. how much will a true sine wave inverter cost?
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I don't have any data on a pure sine wave inverter, but I think a few others here have them.
I am sure they will give you added data.
The V572 neeeds two AC sources. One for its power brick and the other for a TW523/PSC05 interface.
Also the laptop would need an X10 powerline receiver.
Which interface where you thinking of using?
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I don't have any data on a pure sine wave inverter, but I think a few others here have them.
I am sure they will give you added data.
The V572 neeeds two AC sources. One for its power brick and the other for a TW523/PSC05 interface.
Also the laptop would need an X10 powerline receiver.
Which interface where you thinking of using?
I thought the cm15a worked as the laptop's receiver?
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Yes it does.
I may have missed which interface you where going to be using.
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yes, was going to use a cm15a because I intend to use one for my house alarm/automation. That and I may use it to send some signals to an x-10 relay to turn on some 12v devices like LED floods, IR lighting, maybe even a relay to the electric switch that starts a generator.
If this project comes to fruition, I promise to post pics of everything. It's all going to be wired into an older remodeled RV 5th wheel trailor. Right now we are working on designing the welded on exoskeleton that will support a shooting deck on top. When the hogs move on, we scout out the new trails they are using, find a central location for the trailor, throw out around 5-10 motion detectors on the trails and plug in the sensor locations on a very makeshift map on the computer. Sit back, drink coffee and wait :'
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Anyone know anything about these? Shows it with an external antenna on motion sensor!
http://www.intellihome.be/english/home_automation/wireless_x10_controllers/ms13_motion_detector
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That is the MS13E. European model. Uses the RF frequency of 433.92MHz.
X10 USA uses 310MHz.
Will not work with a US CM15A.
Would work with the European CM15APro.
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That is the MS13E. European model. Uses the RF frequency of 433.92MHz.
X10 USA uses 310MHz.
Will not work with a US CM15A.
Would work with the European CM15APro.
Drat! Double Drat! B:(
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No Drat! or Double Drat!
You are in Louisiana, not Europe!!
Toss that M13E. You can't use it.
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I know, I know. I just thought I had found an easy solution to my antenna modding idea. That external antenna would have been so much easier to experiment with.
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That external antenna looks an AWFUL LOT like Hawk1's blowgun dart antenna mod posted on here a while back.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=17920.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=17920.0)
My guess is the antenna on the MS13E is no more than double the wire of whatever is in there now, brought outside the case and coated with plastic. Seems easy enough to emulate...
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That external antenna looks an AWFUL LOT like Hawk1's blowgun dart antenna mod posted on here a while back.
http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=17920.0 (http://forums.x10.com/index.php?topic=17920.0)
My guess is the antenna on the MS13E is no more than double the wire of whatever is in there now, brought outside the case and coated with plastic. Seems easy enough to emulate...
Thank you for the link. This is a goldmine for me #:)
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Glad I could be Helpful to your boar-hunting!
It may be good to warn you of two-legged animals as well ;)
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Funny you should mention the blow dart mod, I just found the rest of my darts out in the garage! Gettin ready to mod some more!
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Funny you should mention the blow dart mod, I just found the rest of my darts out in the garage! Gettin ready to mod some more!
;D
:)+ :)%