X10 Community Forum
🔌General Home Automation => Automating Your House => Topic started by: Brandt on October 25, 2010, 06:04:19 PM
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So the people in my household hate the WS467 switches.
1) They don't like preset dim at all it's confusing them
2) They miss it when trying to walk by it and it's irritating
I have PCS paddle switches already in place in most of the common areas, but I am really thinking this family of mine likes toggle switches the best.
Anyway, I've been looking to replace the PCS switches with 2-way switches that report status when toggled locally or when requested. Also would like to get rid of the two WS467's I have.
I'm torn between toggle or paddle switches, and at ~$45 a pop for those smarthome lincs/icons, that kinda puts me off a bit.
If I were to use those Insteon/X10 switches I may want to use their insteon functionality to get my moneys worth....which would mean a hybrid setup.
If anyone could give advice on a hybrid setup, or recommend more affordable 2-way switch....
Also can the preset dim be disabled?
thanks
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They don't handle dim and bright commands and report their status differently.
Smarthome chose the older %dim command. X10 chose to use the more modern X10 commands.
At full on and full off they report on and off. In between they report a %dim that may not be decoded by you program correctly. Though if PCS is working for you they use the same %dim. Same for local paddle changes. Except at full on it send an On and at full off an Off.
The relay versions that don't dim always report on or off. By local button or status request.
PLM in the below data is their present serial interface for Insteon.
The PLM is based on an "old" x10 protocol similar to that used by the PCS Smartswitches. These devices used "preset Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.
X10 brand, Leviton, and other manufacturers conform to a "newer" X10 standard that uses "extended code Direct Dim" and standard "Dim" commands.
Most of these devices will not respond to the "preset Dim" commands available on the PLM.
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I'm sorry I kinda lost you there...what is PLM stand for again? power line modem?
What difference does it make to the user what protocol the switch uses? Or would I only have to worry about that in a software compatibility sense?
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Sorry the PLM {correct Power Line Modem} was unclear. I was just to lazy to rewrite the file I use to show the different ways dim commands are handled. The method of dim commands used was the important part.
Mostly software problems. If the software does not understand %dim commands. A local paddle change may not register in the program. Also if the programs used the Extended Code Direct Dim to control the Insteon Module. The Insteon module would not go to the proper level requested.
Example AHP if I called one a WS12A in AHP. It could dim and brighten the module. As it used the old standard dim commands but if I locally reset the level with the paddle it did not show in AHP. Full On or Full Off did toggle the modules Icon in AHP.
If I called it a LM14A used by some for soft start switches. AHP didn't control the level at all except on and off. Along with the local paddle not registering back in AHP.
One thing you may already know. The Insteon and Icon switches need a Neutral Power connection to operate.
Also if you find someone selling used ones. Some of the older modules had the small tact switches on the PC board get intermittent. To the point Smarthome extended the warranty to seven years for the known problem date codes. You may want to ask about the condition of the switches.
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So it looks like switchlincs and togglelincs are the most affordable 2-way switches correct? Looks like Leviton is about $30 more ???
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I have not looked at prices of different brands lately, but a quick search. Did seem to find Levitons with two way capabilities {not all are} more costly.
If you want a different color paddle on the SwitchLincs than white. They up charge five dollars. Now if you buy white and buy the $5.49 paddle color change kit it has two sets in it. ;D Some folks also like to change the suppied light pipes from clear to one of the optional ones. I chose frosted white replacement kit as the LEDs can be fairly bright at night. I used Blue in a different one near my garage door.
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I'm pretty set on using Leviton 16400's in the bedrooms because the switches there normally just control an outlet anyway, can just use a lamp module on that end.
For the fixtures, i'm debating whether to just go for the switchlincs, or get the more affordable Icons.
I use pure x10, no insteon, and I do all my scene/macro programming on the computer end of things (don't care to program light switches)
My needs are 1) transmit x10 status on local control 2) respond to status requests 3) be able to disable preset dim on dimmer switches.
Looks like they both meet my needs, it's just a matter of how much extra insteon fluff I want to pay for. Although the light pipe color change kits and paddle kits look pretty cool...
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The Icons have one LED Off. No bargraph and I believe it is Amber.
Shorter warranty and power ratings.
For what you are doing they maybe fine as a Primary X10 Address is all you seem to need. The new Rev >5.0 Insteon versions also eliminated the X10 Scene Addresses. They do make Icon paddles if you did need one other than white.
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ok, I think I'm going to go for the switchlincs, but get em a couple at a time due to money supply, etc...
Also, do the X10 (Pro) paddle switches have true-rocker action?
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Brian what insteon controller do you use?
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The Universal Devices ISY99i. It is a third party one and fairly expensive. It interfaces to the world through the Smarthome 2412S or 2413S Power Line Modem. It can run alone and is network accessed to program it or check operations. There are Linux and Mac OS users also using the ISY99i.
It also can do all the linking of devices with out the manual button pushes used to link devices.
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The ISY devices look awesome. Id love to go with that and a bunch of nokia n series tablets running InterfaceGO around the house. However I'm not at that level yet. I had a 2414u but it died on me. Any recommended entry level interfaces?
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You looking for a controller that can be programmed and then the computer can be turned off or one that is used with a computer 24/7?
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Well, I already have a Sheevaplug w/ linux running 24/7 controlling my X10.
If I could plug it into that and run some other linux program, that might work.
I guess what I'm getting at, is if I start investing in switchlincs, keypadswitchlincs, I could see myself wanting to take advantage of their insteon functionality. For right now though I am purely X10, and I see the unused features of these switches it makes me want more out of them.
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Interesting results with my SwitchLinc Dimmer 2476D Rev5.0+ using Heyu:
(Light is ON)
root@haplug:~# heyu status c4
11/01 22:23:43 rcvi addr unit 4 : hu C4 (kitchen_dining_light)
11/01 22:23:43 rcvi func StatusOn : hc C
11/01 22:23:43 rcvi addr unit 4 : hu C4 (kitchen_dining_light)
(Light is DIMMED almost all the way. Visually appears to be off)
root@haplug:~# heyu status c4
11/01 22:26:42 rcvi addr unit 4 : hu C4 (kitchen_dining_light)
11/01 22:26:43 rcvi func StatusOn : hc C
11/01 22:26:43 rcvi addr unit 4 : hu C4 (kitchen_dining_light)
(Light is turned OFF via heyu, or locally)
root@haplug:~# heyu off c4
root@haplug:~# heyu status c4
Unable to send command bytes
root@haplug:~# heyu status c4
Unable to send command bytes
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Interesting log entries.
Not sure exactly what they indicate.
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Basically they indicate that there are some communication errors with the switch when the switch is off.
It's as if it responds to a status request too quickly for the CM11a to process.
The above post was output on the command line. Here is a log entry:
10/30 18:42:27 sndc addr unit 4 : hu C4 (kitchen_dining_light)
10/30 18:42:28 sndc func StatusReq : hc C
10/30 18:42:28 Poll received unknown value (1 bytes), leading byte = 2
10/30 18:42:28 Poll received unknown value (1 bytes), leading byte = 0
10/30 18:42:28 Poll received unknown value (1 bytes), leading byte = 2a
10/30 18:42:29 rcvi func StatusOff : hc C
Please note that the three bytes, 0x02 0x00 0x2a, together with an initial 0x5a poll request that can be/supposed to get eaten with the failed status request send operation, these four bytes form a complete, correct transmission from the interface, with the 0x2a byte evidently representing an X10 'address C4' signal, received from the queried module obviously, then followed by the correctly decoded StatusOff.
Here is what the current Heyu maintainer is asking:
Me having much less experience with X10 hardware than C programming, please let me know what do you, experienced X10/CM11A users, think about it. Should we assume a module is broken if it responds to a status request so prompltly that we have problems with correct handling of this response? Or should we tend to not interprete the CM11A returned 0x5a (poll request) replacing awaited 0x55 (ready) as a send failure indication, thus being more prone to real transmission failures caused by unsolicited incoming signals?
Thanks,
Janusz
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Test with an early 2876DB Icon Dimmer Switch.
C4 was assigned address.
Smarthome 1132CU with Smarthome Manager Essentials sending and receiving the commands.
You may notice a Status Request returns two messages.
If not On or Off the second message is a %Dim value.
I have no idea if this has any bearing on what you are seeing.
T: C4 - 6:58:46 PM 11/3/2010
T: COn - 6:58:48 PM 11/3/2010
T: C4 - 6:58:53 PM 11/3/2010
T: CStatus Request - 6:58:55 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:58:56 PM 11/3/2010
R: CStatus=On - 6:58:56 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:58:57 PM 11/3/2010
R: COn - 6:58:57 PM 11/3/2010
T: C4 - 6:59:05 PM 11/3/2010
T: COff - 6:59:07 PM 11/3/2010
T: C4 - 6:59:11 PM 11/3/2010
T: CStatus Request - 6:59:14 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:59:15 PM 11/3/2010
R: CStatus=Off - 6:59:15 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:59:16 PM 11/3/2010
R: COff - 6:59:16 PM 11/3/2010
T: C4 - 6:59:27 PM 11/3/2010
T: 23% Preset Dim 6:59:30 PM 11/3/2010
T: C4 - 6:59:34 PM 11/3/2010
T: CStatus Request - 6:59:36 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:59:37 PM 11/3/2010
R: CStatus=On - 6:59:38 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 6:59:38 PM 11/3/2010
R: 23% Preset Dim 6:59:39 PM 11/3/2010
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I am trying to figure out i why I get this error only when requesting status from the switch when it is off.
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I don't have any ideas why the off is messed up.
I do know that revisions >5.0 have changes in them as there are manuals for above and below 5.0.
This is what I got when I turned it on; off; brightened and dimmed. Using the local paddles.
R: C4 - 7:18:38 PM 11/3/2010
R: COff - 7:18:39 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 7:18:41 PM 11/3/2010
R: COn - 7:18:41 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 7:18:46 PM 11/3/2010
R: 23% Preset Dim 7:18:47 PM 11/3/2010
R: C4 - 7:18:50 PM 11/3/2010
R: 35% Preset Dim 7:18:50 PM 11/3/2010