X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Help & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: pomonabill221 on March 13, 2011, 08:05:28 PM
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Hello all!
My first post here. Just bought the CM15a and install sw version 3.305 (I think), then upgraded to 3.306 for both the AHP (main) and Smartmacros.
I DESPISE the interface!!!!
1) The icons are HUGE and cannot be resized :-[
2) The font size is HUGE and cannot be changed :-[
3) on THREE different computers, the mouse scroll wheel does NOT function at all for any window :-\ :-[ B:(
4) the scroll "handle" to move the list for changing rooms in the macro designer does NOT work (only the UP/DOWN arrow buttons, but does work in the main macro window :-[ B:(
5) There is NO WAY to sort the order of rooms/macros/timers in the tree view, even though the mouse cursor changes to a hand like you could drag and drop to a new location... doesn't work!!! :-\ :-\
Every once in a while, when a menu item is selected (like File/New), the particular drop down will not go away, even if an item (like NEW) is clicked, and nothing happens either. I have to exit and restart AHP. :-[ :-[
These are big bugs that should have been taken care of. ::) ::) ::) :-[
I also have the crashing problem and have tried the x10net service hack (change the log on setting to my uid with password, rather than system). The problem I was having is that I could download to the interface once, then when I tried again, I got the Msoft crash report popup and ahp quit. After that the only way was to unplug the USB, powerdown the interface (power AND batteries), restart windows, install batteries, AC power, USB... then the cycle would repeat!
It seems that the x10net hack fixed the problem (I think). UPDATE.... wrong... still crashes! Will try the earlier version after complete uninstall.
I have been an x10'er since they first came out with my first starter kit (about 78?? with ONE maxi controller and three dark brown dimmer modules sold at Perry Truman ( no longer around) under the BSR name, then a CP290 (still have), then the CM11 (yech), then Smarthome 1132CUP (non insteon) VERY bad support!!!). I DO know X10.
I haven't gone X10 crazy because of the reliabillity issues, but recently built the XTBM monitor after "suffering" with a high pass filter and scope... THIS IS A VERY USEFUL INSTRUMENT!!!! GET ONE IF YOU NEED TO TROUBLESHOOT X10!!! #:) :)%
If anyone has a hint about the crashing, text, icon, scroll wheel problems, PLEASE give a clue!
Thanks to ALL that contribute!
Bill
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You state your a long time X10er.
Is it possible you have the x10 AHSDK installed? If so that needs to be updated.
>!
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I haven't installed the SDK yet.... Only on one of my computers.
How do I uninstall the SDK? Do I have to uninstall the SHP software as well? (NO problem!)
Thanks!
Yes I am a long time X10er'!
I also read somewhere here that adding a few decoupling caps (.01 in parallel to c11,c12,u2 pin 1 to 8, and u1 pin 6 to 11) would help on reliability. These sound like ps decoupling. My Cm15A has a date code of 10L49. I am looking into adding them, IF none exist on my interface.
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Let us know what you find. If you decide to open up your CM15A.
X10 has been updating modules and using completely different components.
My latest 2008 CM15A still matches my original one component wise.
Maybe the date code 2010 ones have been updated.
I know the lamp modules, appliance modules, TM751 and PH508 are completely different between the older and later ones. Just wondering if the CM15A was also updated.
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You Don't need to Uninstall the SDK!
Just make sure it is the latest version if you have installed it after Jan this year you likely have the latest.
How ever if you wish to uninstall I don't believe it comes with a uninstaller.
You'll need to delete the AHSDK folder stop the X10.nets and then delete the x10 common folder in the program files\common files folder this however will stop AHP from working and it will need to be reinstalled.
>!
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Brian H;
I did open the CM15 and there were NO decoupling caps, so I added the four that is mentioned. It should have been a no-brainer to have the caps!!! The data sheets always have small caps on the input and output of the regulator, and digital logic is always decoupled... should have been a given!!! and ALWAYS use the shortest leads possible!!!! The higher the frequency (noise wise anyway), the more a long wire/trace looks like an inductor and NOT a wire so short short short lengths are a MUST!!! :o
How have the TM751 changed? Did they change to surface mount? Use a SAW filter instead of the LC? Use a different receiver (for the RF?) Do the new TM751's have collision avoidance now? I heard that the old one's dont but the RR501 do?
TUICEMAN:
Turns out I did not install the SDK on any of my machines, just downloaded it. I wound up uninstalling, stopping the service, deleted remaining files/folders, pruned the registry, and reinstalled 3.305. I still had a couple of crashes on download. :P
I looked at all my macros and they seemed to be valid. For now though, it appears to be working ok with multilple changes, then saving, then downloading with no crashes! :D
Don't know what I did (or what AHP decided to do), but now.....
I have a macro that turns on a recirc pump for 10 minutes and is triggered by 3 time events, or a manual H/U code. P12 is the trigger, G16 ON, delay 10 minutes, G16 off... REAL SIMPLE!!!!
Strange thing is (it used to run ok), I am using the XTBM and when I start the macro, the XTBM displays "P16 Pon... Gxx <---- is the NOT right!!! It does display G16 Goff when the macro times out though!!! REAL strange!
I change the unit code for the macro and I still get the Gxx for the on command.
SOOOO.... I powered the thing down, and removed the batteries for MINUTES and it now works! VERY STRANGE!!! B:(
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Kind of a mixture of through hole and surface mount for the newer TM751.
The controller is now surface mounted on the solder side.
The RF Receiver Daughter Board uses the same Himark RX3310A receiver chip as the CM15A. Looks like LC tuned.
Compared to my older RR501 and CM15A. The new one does have a better RF range.
No the TM751 still is the same. No power line receiver. Not polite and only controlled by RF.
I only got the TM751 as a part of a AHP deal. The one with the CM19A interface. I only wanted the CM19A and the package was very cheap compared to the CM19A alone. Guess I could have used a third party EBay seller. They seem to be reasonable.
I do have one RR501 in use. One that I rebuilt the power supply after it got flaky.
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Brian H;
I did open the CM15 and there were NO decoupling caps, so I added the four that is mentioned. It should have been a no-brainer to have the caps!!!
That would have increased parts cost by eight cents, you big silly!
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Dave W...
Whelll... excuuuussse ME! rofl rofl rofl
Geezze, a whole EIGHT cents!!! (IF that!). And no telling WHAT the reliability would be with the caps!!!
Too soon to tell if the added caps do anything, but I hazard a guess that it will probably perform better?!?! Only time will tell (hehe ahah hoho... time will tell !?!?! get it get it???). rofl rofl
Brian H...
hhmmm.... too bad they didn't make it polite like the RR501! that with the addition of all 16 unit codes, and transmitting on/off when using the local button, would make this transceiver a JEWEL!... oh well I am going to try using the CM15A as my only receiver, with the antenna mod, and see if it will work for RF "access point" alone.
The only "transmitted" RF is to my Ninja Pan and Tilts, although I would need to use the IWatch, and it complains if it cannot find a VA11/12 interface (which I don't have at the moment, and don't plan to use with all the "problems" that others are having, and the resource hog that it seems to be).
Anyone else have these problems with the VA12? Is it really all that bad?
Is there a way to control the P&T's with JUST smartmacros and AHP?
I am using a different camera mounted to the P&T's, and camera software (server) to handle the video.
As far as the CM15A, I believe it DOES have "politeness" as far as it's RF section. Ture? AND all 256 codes to boot! If it does NOT have the range that I need, I will use a RR501 as a fringe transceiver. We'll see!
Thanks for the help... Anyone know about my grips about the fonts, mouse scrolling, and icon sizes? It really bugs me!
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Dave W...
Whelll... excuuuussse ME! rofl rofl rofl
Geezze, a whole EIGHT cents!!! (IF that!). And no telling WHAT the reliability would be with the caps!!!
Too soon to tell if the added caps do anything, but I hazard a guess that it will probably perform better?!?! Only time will tell (hehe ahah hoho... time will tell !?!?! get it get it???). rofl rofl
"time will tell" OK I deserve that.
[steps on soapbox]
As far as the bypass caps...yeah, why do they do that? It makes no sense. Also IMHO unused chip input pins should be tried high or low, but X10 just lets them float...why? Only reason I can come up with is it reduces the complexity of the PC board and saves copper. But it can create unstable operation. I just think X10 shoots themselves in the foot trying to save a penny here or a penny there which is foolish, especially where their niche products are not well known and must rely on word of mouth.
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Yes, I guess so!
When I was in the CM15a, there were several pins on the uP that were floating (NO copper)!
I am going to look up the chip to see what these pins are, an see if adding a 10k pullup (or down, depending on what the pin does), will "help".
I will let you know what I find out.
Bill
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I will let you know what I find out.
Bill
Great, thanks.
It's just too bad that the customer has to re-engineer.
I love hacking to make it do something not intended, but hacking to make it work reliably is poo-poo, pee-pee, caa-caa. (A little known technical term denoting questionable quality).
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Maybe they should have a "customer advisory board" for new hardware products. Make them sign a non-disclosure agreement, and let them look at the schematics and/or the hardware itself. I wonder if they might have changed the design had they gotten the "Hey - if you add 4 capacitors in these 4 spots, it will work that much better" feedback while they still had time to make the changes easily.
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Decoupling caps should be a part of every electronic design.
It is a basic every Electronic Technician and Engineer is taught in electronics school.
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Decoupling caps should be a part of every electronic design.
It is a basic every Electronic Technician and Engineer is taught in electronics school.
Maybe the engineer who designed the CM15A was absent the day they taught that ;-)
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Maybe the engineer who designed the CM15A was absent the day they taught that ;-)
$0.02
No, Noam, I think they know exactly what they are doing, from the onset.
I have seen X10 take an existing design (a lamp module) and remove two caps in an appearent cost reduction effort. How much could those two caps have cost? I doubt they were even a nickel, but the lamp module was made in the million units per year, so in X10 bean counter eyes it adds up. The X10 market model is to sell cheaper than anyone else. So I sure that permiates the design. I also suspect that the initial design, sans "extra" bypass caps, probably works well in the lab, but once mass manfactured the shortcuts manifest themselves. pomonabill221 pointed out the long leads example. You can take out a bypass cap and have everything continue to work dandy until one of the other bybass caps are not inserted down flush with the PC board and does not properly "bypass".
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Fair enough. I was never trying to defend their product design flaws. I was just trying to add a little humor to the conversation.
I agree that spending a few cents more to manufacture each unit would have made a better product. I guess their bean counters did the math, and figured that the lost profit from the added cost was more than the sales they would lose because the units were less reliable.
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I agree about not having the caps down flush to the board when assembled.
The CM15 is most definitly NOT automated assembly!!! Most of the parts are sticking up like they just bent the leads to go through the board, and left them above the board because they were not pushed down to the board, and the hole spacing for the components is wider than the actual spacing for the part.
Even some of the parts are crooked or cocked where one lead is all the way through, and the other lead is long.
So when decoupling caps are engineered for the pcb layout, the spacing MUST be correct for the part to fit flush, and the copper traces MUST be as short as possible.
A better approach would be to use SMT caps on the copper side RIGHT BETWEEN or NEXT TO THE POWER PINS! This would be ideal! BUT would add complexity to assembly.
This is another reason they don't use double sided boards, and alot of jumpers.... MUCH cheaper to route the board. AND they cram part together!
There is an opto isolator for the zero crossing input and the line in connection is RIGHT NEXT TO IT!!! IF, during assembly, a strand of wire from the line wire were to fray when pushed through the solder hole and touch a pin on the opto... POOF!!!! There are ALOT of other parts crammed around it as well, where other real estate on the board is wide open! Layout is very poor on this board and with a little effort, could have been alot better.... BUT that would have cost 1/2 cent more... B:(
I do have the schematic... got it from the FCC website. The title for the schematic is "USA Cypress USB Interface" but that doesn't google the CM15a. Just google cm15a schematic!
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Found this information on the CM15A.
It may give you some added information.
http://davehouston.net/cm15a.htm
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Hello all!
My first post here. Just bought the CM15a and install sw version 3.305 (I think), then upgraded to 3.306 for both the AHP (main) and Smartmacros.
I DESPISE the interface!!!!
1) The icons are HUGE and cannot be resized :-[
2) The font size is HUGE and cannot be changed :-[
3) on THREE different computers, the mouse scroll wheel does NOT function at all for any window :-\ :-[ B:(
4) the scroll "handle" to move the list for changing rooms in the macro designer does NOT work (only the UP/DOWN arrow buttons, but does work in the main macro window :-[ B:(
5) There is NO WAY to sort the order of rooms/macros/timers in the tree view, even though the mouse cursor changes to a hand like you could drag and drop to a new location... doesn't work!!! :-\ :-\
Every once in a while, when a menu item is selected (like File/New), the particular drop down will not go away, even if an item (like NEW) is clicked, and nothing happens either. I have to exit and restart AHP. :-[ :-[
These are big bugs that should have been taken care of. ::) ::) ::) :-[
I also have the crashing problem and have tried the x10net service hack (change the log on setting to my uid with password, rather than system). The problem I was having is that I could download to the interface once, then when I tried again, I got the Msoft crash report popup and ahp quit. After that the only way was to unplug the USB, powerdown the interface (power AND batteries), restart windows, install batteries, AC power, USB... then the cycle would repeat!
It seems that the x10net hack fixed the problem (I think). UPDATE.... wrong... still crashes! Will try the earlier version after complete uninstall.
I have been an x10'er since they first came out with my first starter kit (about 78?? with ONE maxi controller and three dark brown dimmer modules sold at Perry Truman ( no longer around) under the BSR name, then a CP290 (still have), then the CM11 (yech), then Smarthome 1132CUP (non insteon) VERY bad support!!!). I DO know X10.
I haven't gone X10 crazy because of the reliabillity issues, but recently built the XTBM monitor after "suffering" with a high pass filter and scope... THIS IS A VERY USEFUL INSTRUMENT!!!! GET ONE IF YOU NEED TO TROUBLESHOOT X10!!! #:) :)%
If anyone has a hint about the crashing, text, icon, scroll wheel problems, PLEASE give a clue!
Thanks to ALL that contribute!
Bill
I use AHP 3.306 and and it's on a HP 2031 20" monitor and AHP looks like it always did. I don't consider the display to be big, it's always looked liked that since AHP came along as I imported my files form Active Home.
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Well I cannot see more than 4 or 5 steps in a macro because of the large icons.
Also the text is much larger than it needs to be.
Are you able to use the scroll wheel on your mouse? (mine doesn't,,, on three different computers)
Do the "drag handles" on a scroll bar work on ALL list boxes? (they do not work on all list boxes, even though they are there, just the up/down arrows on a scroll bar).
Does ALT+F4 close ANY of the windows? (mine do not, once again on all three computers).
Why does the left hand tree open ALL the subtrees when AHP is started? The previous window's positions should be remembered!
These are user interface items that REALLY make a difference!! User HOSTILE is what I call AHP!
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I was never trying to defend their product design flaws.
No-no, me neither. My assessment is: X10 makes a marginal "skeleton cost" design and combines it with manufacturing that has little process control. Even incorporating the lowest ISO 9000 standard would do wonders for X10 quality.
pomonabill221 observations are right on. My bet is the poor end of line technician that has to plug the babies into the test outlet has smoke blackened fingers. rofl
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Well I cannot see more than 4 or 5 steps in a macro because of the large icons.
Also the text is much larger than it needs to be.
Are you able to use the scroll wheel on your mouse? (mine doesn't,,, on three different computers)
Do the "drag handles" on a scroll bar work on ALL list boxes? (they do not work on all list boxes, even though they are there, just the up/down arrows on a scroll bar).
Does ALT+F4 close ANY of the windows? (mine do not, once again on all three computers).
Why does the left hand tree open ALL the subtrees when AHP is started? The previous window's positions should be remembered!
These are user interface items that REALLY make a difference!! User HOSTILE is what I call AHP!
If you mean the Macro Designer, THAT has always been that way, since AHP was introduced. It shows EVERY module you have, so you have to use the pull down bar (right side of the window) to see all if them.
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Well if SOME of the scroll bars work, and others don't what are the differences as far as programming? Was this overlooked, maybe?
I am NOT TRYING TO BASH/FLAME/BE CRITICAL of the software/hardware!!! I am trying to find out if OTHERS have the same problem or have found a workaround for the problem!!!
Also bring these things up some maybe someone can get these findings back to the sw programmers, or create a fix.
I know that the typed word does NOT show emotion so it is kinda hard to "complain nicely", but that is what I am doing!
Overall, the software, in MY opinion, is lacking some "creature comforts" and "friendliness" (scrolling wheel support, scroll bar functionality, sorting list ability, etc.), BUT it DOES indicate programming effort to make programming macros and timers, fairly easy and readable, even for users that do not have the "logical thinking" ability that others have. (NOT TRYING TO PUT DOWN ANYONE!!! PLEASE).
Alot of other software does have the ability to set user interface features for "customizability" and I am surprised that AHP is lacking in this department, seeing that effort was made to make a readable interface, just not very friendly.
PLEASE accept my apology for anyone that I may have offended or insulted, this was NOT my intention!!!
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Apology accepted. X10 suffered a loss of programmers in 2008, it has taken almost 2 1/2 years to get new one, plus the time to get fully "on board". Much of AHP dates to early in 2002 or so, and the Macro Designer dates from that time, AFAIK.
I got AHP in July of 2005 and the Macro Designer was exactly what you see today.
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AHHA!!!! That explains why different parts of the interface operate differently!!! Makes sense now!
I have read that they cannot keep programmers very long... that is sad because in the long run, ramp up time for new programmers is LLOOONNNGGG and is reflected in the update frequency and the "missing holes" when an update is rolled out.
Oh well....
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It's not the interface (that's the CM15A) it's AHP (the program) that you deal with.
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Yes Dan... by interface I meant the program!
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Terminology get in the way sometimes. I got into X10 in the late 1980's and knew from the beginning that the interface was plugged into an outlet and put signals on the power line and the program was on the computer.
Something I knew from the beginning is that X10 is not mass marketed, you learn about it from a friend who already had it. Radio Shack sold X10 modules and other stuff as their "Plug-N-Power line (their factory in China was right across the road from the X10 factory) and X10 sold modules with the name Motorola and others, all were X10. I've got modules from X10, Motorola, Stanley and others still in use, AHP sees them as modules.
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I think the OP is referring to the USER Interface, which - since it is not text based - would be a Graphical User Interface, or GUI.
That should clear up some confusion.
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Yes, I realize it is graphical based, but even other sw packages that are graphical are resizable.
Look at windows for example...
You can change the font size, scroll bar width/color, window title bar size/color/text size and font... for instance.
If the font is a truetype font, they are sizeable also.
This is what I am referring to for resizing.
I have looked for, and not found, where the icons for the modules are stored. My guess is that the icons are embedded in the ahp.dll, since it is a very large file.
Are the sounds configurable as well? There is no entry in the sounds control panel for AHP sounds. Is there an entry in ahp_config.xml that could be added and changed?
Just a few questions that I want to throw out there if someone has looked before for a solution.