X10 Community Forum
💬General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: HA Dave on March 15, 2011, 04:18:34 PM
-
The disaster and lost of life in Japan is heart breaking. My prayers go out for the Japanese people and residents in the area and entire island. Today, I've been watching the developments of the stricken Japanese reactors of the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant.
There are those that believe the events in Japan won't have an effect our electric production in the Unites States. I wish I was that optimistic... if that is the correct word.
We can't build more coal plants in the United States. Regulations prohibit the mining and use of more coal. The same can can be said for nuclear power and plants. Hydro-electric plants and dams are being removed. Natural Gas is plentiful.... but as I understand it... doesn't scale well for power production. Currently many small gas powered electrical plants merely ramp-up during peak usage times to increase the efficiency of the main power producing plants... as they do in my area..
Just one of the Japanese nuclear plants currently in trouble produces several times more power than ALL the windmills and solar panels in America.
Many of us have experimented with and use LED lighting as well as the old CFL's. Some have tired and used solar. I live in a area less favorable to solar but I am considering possible wind use. Maybe those of us that currently use, are planning, or interested in, alternate energy power and automation... ought to chronicle our thoughts, trials, errors and such.
I myself have never been a strong advocate of using Home Automation for energy conservation. But maybe.. things have changed.
-
Thorium reactors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium
It should be noted that those reactors in Japan are very early boiling water reactors. They were designed to withstand an 8.2 magnitude earthquake. They in fact withstood almost an order of magnitude stronger earthquake, and would have probably been OK if the emergency standby diesel generators were not taken out by the tsunami.
Jeff
-
New generation nuke power is a lot different from the 40 year old designs in US and Japan. New generations are essentially melt down proof, and this isn't even considering sodium and thorium reactors that run "full tilt" all the time, traditional cooling isn't even needed. Naturally they are hideously expensive. As for me, I say coal, oil, gas...drill here, mine here, now. It is time to say we can lose a few snail darters, spotted owls, six spotted sparrows, and white throated cock roaches.
-
It is time to say we can lose a few snail darters, spotted owls, six spotted sparrows, and white throated cock roaches.
That's the typical short term mindset that is becoming the norm. Why not take a little time and effort to preserve the rare species...
and put them on treadmills to generate power, then burn the corpses for maximum energy efficiency output? rofl
-
That's the typical short term mindset that is becoming the norm.
bees,
It is becoming the norm because everytime a new power station or refinery is proposed, it is stopped by "environmentalists" finding a carp with an extra spot on it, hence becoming an "endangered species", but I think people are catching on.
Your treadmill idea for rare species is isn't acceptable because it tends to toughen the meat making it hard to chew. :-*
-
Your treadmill idea for rare species is isn't acceptable because it tends to toughen the meat making it hard to chew. :-*
Sometimes you have to sacrifice a meal in the interest of saving fossil fuels. Of course, burning the corpses would mean a shortage of fossil fuels about 1.23 million years from now, but I'm not too worried about that :)
I'm not responding any more to this thread as I have a sneaking suspicion it could get silly :'
-
No such thing as a fossil fuel. You should research the history of that term.
-
That's the typical short term mindset that is becoming the norm.
bees,
It is becoming the norm because everytime a new power station or refinery is proposed, it is stopped by "environmentalists" finding a carp with an extra spot on it, hence becoming an "endangered species", but I think people are catching on.
Your treadmill idea for rare species is isn't acceptable because it tends to toughen the meat making it hard to chew. :-*
I'm still trying to imagine a carp on a treadmill. ???
rofl
-
Now Germany is shutting down Nuke Plants: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12745899 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12745899)
-
I'm not responding any more to this thread as I have a sneaking suspicion it could get silly :'
It is already silly with me being one of the silly contributors...but was fun.
Perhaps too much I try and make a point with humor and the humor gets a little lost. I just get nuts knowing we are sitting on enough "drillable" petroleum and high quality coal to run the country for a century, but we are not permitted to get it. Instead we have to buy from nations, some of whom would like to see us dead. Ok I'm outta here too. ;)
-
It is already silly with me being one of the silly contributors...but was fun.
I meant for the thread to be fun. It is in the general area... it doesn't need be too X10 related. But I did also mean the thread to have a my-optic nature to it (of course... feel free to change that... if you wish). My feelings are... to heck with what the government(s) are going to try to do to us. What can I do... to continue to have automation in the upcoming days/years.
I haven't openly advocated conservation on the forum... and not sure I plan to ether. But at home... I am very tight fist-ed with every watt I use. I'd bet on my electric bill is lower than any of my neighbors. Quality use of power (electric) is what I am after.
-
Also feeling for the people of Japan.
I used to work for Atomic Energy of Canada ("AECL"), designer and manufacturer of the "Candu" reactor.
The industry is SO heavily regulated that even a small spill of heavy water (which BTW is quite harmless) has to be reported as an "incident" to the nuclear regulatory board. Once the media gets hold of this then the tree huggers and other anti-nuke groups start piping up about how unsafe it is, which unfairly puts the general public on edge.
I always ask, if the so called fossil fuels became depleted within a few years and nuclear (or "nucular" as pronounced by GW Bush lol) was the only form of affordable energy, would it be acceptable then or would you be fine living in the dark with no heat and no power for your cellphone ? Yes, we still have choices like fossil fuels but they are not limitless and the present demand for power cannot be fulfilled by those methods alone. And what's worse... the tons of pollution from burning fossil fuels or the the (decreasing risk) of nuclear accidents and spent fuel storage issues ?
Also reminds me of the greenies who have this misconception that electric cars are purely clean and the power to charge them "just comes out of the wall socket" without regard for the cost of that electricity and the way in which IT was generated, just as the disposal of spent car batteries is overlooked.
The move towards energy conservation and promoting cleaner power is commendable but too many people are ill informed about the true cost and efficiency of that current technology (i.e. solar, wind). Nuclear power is here to stay.
-
Well said, but US and Canada has far more than "a few years" of fossil fuels.
I can't figure out the greenies infatuation with the Volt. It has a maximum battery range of 40 miles before it has to switch to hybrid mode or get plugged in. I suppose if you live in Manhattan, 40 miles might be a couple of days of driving, but here in fly over country it is one way to work. And your point of spent battery disposal is on the mark. Just wait for the EPA instructions to service centers for that. Its going to make their instructions for disposing of CFLs look as simple as flushing a kleenex.
-
Well said, but US and Canada has far more than "a few years" of fossil fuels.
I can't figure out the greenies infatuation with the Volt. It has a maximum battery range of 40 miles before it has to switch to hybrid mode or get plugged in. I suppose if you live in Manhattan, 40 miles might be a couple of days of driving, but here in fly over country it is one way to work. And your point of spent battery disposal is on the mark. Just wait for the EPA instructions to service centers for that. Its going to make their instructions for disposing of CFLs look as simple as flushing a kleenex.
I was speaking hypothetically to make a point re: a few years of fossil fuels left.
Agreed, there's enough coal in W.VA alone to fuel the US for some decades to come. Diversification (fossil fuels, nuclear...) is just a shell game... where do you want to have your biggest risks/pollution etc.. I suppose it's better than depending on a sole source.
Re: the Volt.
It's nice that people feel compelled to do whatever they can to move in the right direction but in the big picture it's a drop in the bucket. I guess it has to start somewhere but there is a lot of (mis?)information or the lack thereof that needs to be exposed. It will take monumental sociological changes and a huge philosophical shift to start having a major impact and it won't happen overnight (i.e. in 10 or 20 years).
So much for keeping the thread light LOL :)
So there's a question for X-10 to pose to their Facebook likers.... "Tell us how you have used X-10 products to lower your energy bill".
-
So there's a question for X-10 to pose to their Facebook likers.... "Tell us how you have used X-10 products to lower your energy bill".
OK I'm on a roll.
$0.02
I got into home automation back in 1987 with the old Enerlogic 1400 controller. The Enerlogic was about $400 so I justified investment by telling wife we would save energy costs.
In addition to all the lights and appliances which made sense or convenience to control (shut off vacuum if phone or doorbell rang, etc) the Enerlogic controlled water heater, HVAC, sprinkler pump, pool pump, etc. Even with tighter controls and logic driven controls (i.e. controls not driven solely by timed events but rather "it's time to turn on the water heater, but is anyone home?" ) Unfortunately I really did not see any change in electric bill that I could attribute to home automation savings. Actually our electric consumption probably increased because we added "accent lighting" inside and outside of home, which we would not have done if we had to go around house manually turning on and off these lights. Mileage may vary, especially where it is common that lights are left on in unoccupied rooms.
-
No such thing as a fossil fuel. You should research the history of that term.
Dave, Coal and Oil are fossil fuels. The primeval forests are what those fuels came from, if we ever extract every last of the coal and oil no more will be produced. There's still a lot of coal in North America but most of the oil we use is not in the US or Canada. That's why Gas runs in the $3.50 (for 87 Octane) and rising due to the upheaval in the Middle East.
-
Dave, Coal and Oil are fossil fuels. The primeval forests are what those fuels came from, if we ever extract every last of the coal and oil no more will be produced.
I can tell you were educated in North America... as that is what we were taught. However... that IS NOT what all school children around the world are taught. And.. it doesn't explain why asteroid's can have natural gas leaking out of them. But.. there IS an explanation (and NASA even shared it with us). But to understand where gas and oil and coal come from... you have to UN-learn that fossil fuels term. There is NO.. fossil fuels.
-
I will agree to disagree. If coal and oil are not fossil fuels, then why is none being made today underground? I went to school in the 1950's and early 1960's and that's what we were taught. Maybe the children around the world (aside from the US and Canada) are being taught incorrectly.
-
If coal and oil are not fossil fuels, then why is none being made today underground?
They are! And they are being drawn (pumped) out of the ground... as I type.
I went to school in the 1950's and early 1960's and that's what we were taught.
Maybe... you were taught correctly. How many elements (like in the table of elements) did they teach you we had? Did they teach you that dinosaurs had feathers? Did any of your teachers mention that Titan (one of Saturn' moons) is just frozen ball of Methane (natural gas)... with a iron core?
Maybe if you googled abiotic oil.
-
I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct Dave.
I, also, was taught about fossil fuels. There are many articles on the Internet about fossil fuels...
http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html (http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel)
But then, I was also taught that Pluto was a planet and that Uranus was pronounced "Your Anus"
I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" too - I don't think that gets taught any more.
It used to be common knowledge that there is no conceivable reason for any computer to have more than 640k of memory.
It's entirely possible that the stuff I think of as fossil fuel has been reclassified, but to me it's still called fossil fuel, I still say "please" when I ask for something (and "thank you" when I get it), there are still 9 planets in the solar system and Your Anus is one of them :)
I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am rofl
-
I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am rofl
welcome to the club, my brother.
-
I know. What I am claiming is is completely different than what we were taught. And... I can't PROVE it to be true. But I can PROVE it's NOT wrong. Chemical (rock) creation of natural gas is a fact. The only part in dispute is volume.
-
I have no doubt that you're absolutely correct Dave.
I, also, was taught about fossil fuels. There are many articles on the Internet about fossil fuels...
http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html (http://fossil.energy.gov/education/energylessons/index.html)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_fuel)
But then, I was also taught that Pluto was a planet and that Uranus was pronounced "Your Anus"
I was taught to say "please" and "thank you" too - I don't think that gets taught any more.
It used to be common knowledge that there is no conceivable reason for any computer to have more than 640k of memory.
It's entirely possible that the stuff I think of as fossil fuel has been reclassified, but to me it's still called fossil fuel, I still say "please" when I ask for something (and "thank you" when I get it), there are still 9 planets in the solar system and Your Anus is one of them :)
I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am rofl
I note you never said where you stand on that 640k of memory thing. rofl
>!
-
I'm completely happy to be completely wrong and my wife will confirm that I usually am rofl
welcome to the club, my brother.
This is a pretty large club. If we took dues we could probably bale US and EU out of debt.
-
If a tree falls in a forest and there's no-one around to hear, does it still make a noise?
A man says something and his wife isn't around to hear, is he still wrong?
-
If a tree falls in a forest and there's no-one around to hear, does it still make a noise?
A man says something and his wife isn't around to hear, is he still wrong?
Light waves, radio waves, sound waves... are all pretty much the same. Light waves outside the human perceived spectrum (like IR) are called invisible. Light and radio waves make no sound... only because humans can't hear light and radio waves. Hence the generation of waves whether light, radio, or sound only exist because humans can perceive them. Trees that fall outside of human hearing range... fall in silence.
So.. a man can freely speak and be correct.... as long as his wife doesn't hear him.
-
.... as long as his wife doesn't hear him.
is that possible?
Mine knows what I'm thinking.
"don't even think about it"
See what I mean?
-
Sources estimate that we have, here in the USA, enough OIL, still in the ground, to last us over then next 2000 years!! Not reserves, though we do have those as well, but OIL in ground.
Now tell those in opposition to drilling / removal / usage of that OIL that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few (to quote from Spock), but true and quite logical.
Granted, we shouldn't even be driving / using internal (infernal) combustion engines but we are until something better, more practical, economical, etc., comes along.
We should NOT be dependant on foreign OIL or foreign fossils!! We have our own right here!!
To borrow an applicable expression from the 60-70's..."Can you dig it?!" ;)
-
No human being has ever gone hungry... due to a lack of food. Planet Earth is bountiful with food. The world has always had plenty for all. It is only the human distribution systems that fail us.
That gem of wisdom would likely be meaningless to anyone who has ever gone hungry... or starved.
Whether you believe in the energy models of the 17th century, when the term fossil fuel was coined. Or a more contemporary belief of a hot Earths core and a Steady State solar system, [at least]. It is meaningless during a rolling blackout.
I am thinking maybe I could.... (by use of solar panels or a very small windmill/wind generator, or both)... create enough power to handle some basic LED lighting.