X10 Community Forum
🖥️ActiveHome Pro => ActiveHome Pro General => Topic started by: radeohedca on March 16, 2011, 01:54:19 PM
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It didn't occur to me while I was having an orgasm about AHP and all the potentially neat things I could do that I will need to have a live computer running 24-7 (duhh).
In attempt to keep my hydro bill to a minimum I am thinking about acquiring an older netbook computer that has a solid state hard drive (no forever-spinning HDD). I'll strip down Windows to the bare essentials then only install the X-10 apps that I need (AHP- MyHouse, MyGarage etc...).
Has anyone else done this (before I start putting bids out on a SSHD netbook) ?
BTW, anyone I ever knew who owned one of those old solid-state drive netbooks quickly got rid of them due to the very slow access speed during normal application use (I understand newer generation SSHD's are supposedly better). Nonetheless, I think I can live through the slow installation for the apps that I need so long as the functionality is not compromised.
Is anyone already doing this ? Comments and suggestions appreciated.
Hugh
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Ain't doing it, but I don't think slow access time would be a problem for AHP.
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This is exactly what I am planning, if I can find a netbook for $200 or less. There are power saving features in windows to stop the HDD from spinning after a specified idle time, so needing a solid state drive is really not an issue.
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There are power saving features in windows to stop the HDD from spinning after a specified idle time, so needing a solid state drive is really not an issue.
That isn't the same as slow access. Let us know how AHP reacts to waiting for the drive to start.
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This is exactly what I am planning, if I can find a netbook for $200 or less. There are power saving features in windows to stop the HDD from spinning after a specified idle time, so needing a solid state drive is really not an issue.
I considered this but there are issues there too which is why I'm exploring the SSHD possibility.
A mechanical HD needs to spool up for potentially seconds before making an initial access after it's been asleep, which I suspect would manifest as X-10 latency issues... i.e. "when I hit 4-ON, dammit turn ON now, not in 5 seconds !!" :) A SSHD access would be near immediate although a little slow on the transfer.
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.... A mechanical HD needs to spool up for potentially seconds before making an initial access after it's been asleep.....
I run an old P3 Home Automation Computer using XP. The same one has been running nearly 4 years now... running 24/7. I have it setup as a 24/7 PC (it doesn't sleep). It works great and I don't plan on giving up the computer control. 200 bucks (for a netbook) would buy a heck of a lot of electric I could use to run an dust collector. The old PC's seem to be available to most people for the takings. Everyone has one in a closet or attic.
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.... A mechanical HD needs to spool up for potentially seconds before making an initial access after it's been asleep.....
I run an old P3 Home Automation Computer using XP. The same one has been running nearly 4 years now... running 24/7. I have it setup as a 24/7 PC (it doesn't sleep). It works great and I don't plan on giving up the computer control. 200 bucks (for a netbook) would buy a heck of a lot of electric I could use to run an dust collector. The old PC's seem to be available to most people for the takings. Everyone has one in a closet or attic.
I've seen used netbooks with SSHD on the local online swap pages going for $100 or less. The slow SSHD was a real turnoff but in my case the speed is of no real consequence and the embedded nature is in fact desirable.
There's also the noise and heat generated by a desktop, far lower on a netbook. But the worst part is the psychology of leaving something on 24-7 and listening to my wife complain about it. A quiet and inconspicuous netbook would be easier to pass off lol albeit it would take quite a few kWhs to catch up to ~$100.
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I was thinking of going a similar route last year, when I was having problems extending my USB line. What stopped me was that the netbook I wanted to use had no setting to resume from a power failure, AND had no wake-on-lan capabilities. Most desktops, even older ones, can do both of these.
If my Home Automation PC goes down during a power outage (it is on a UPS, but it only has about an hour of runtime), I want it to come back up after the power is restored. As a fai-safe for that, another Pc of mine (also always-on) sends it a "wake on lan" command during its own boot process, as well.
If your netbook shuts down )or goes to sleep), you may have to manually turn it on or wake it back up. If you're not at home (the whole point of the Internet-connected apps), you have no way to do that.
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........ the worst part is the psychology of leaving something on 24-7 and listening to my wife complain about it. A quiet and inconspicuous netbook would be easier to pass off
Sometimes we just have to man-up, sit our wife's down, look them in the eye, and lie to them about what we're doing. At least until they learn to love home automation as much as we do. Then... of course... honesty is always the biggest problem.
I run X10 using BVC (http://www.davesdomainonline.com/bvc/bvc.htm) on my Home Automation Computer... and my wife asks me to add things for the computer to announce for her. But admittedly that didn't happen overnight.
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On the netbook idea, the processors on them don't need much power and are sufficient for their intended purpose. If you intend on having any video applications on your HA setup, the machine will likely bog down. Generally the onboard integrated video cannot handle the traffic.
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You guys make some valid points, especially with the wake up on LAN and the like. Indeed may not work so well on a netbook.
I guess to put things into perspective, how much power could a stripped down desktop possibly use with the monitor turned off.... probably not much worse than having a 100 watt light turned on. I should borrow my buddy's Kill-A-Watt power meter and do some tests.
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I've heard that the average of cost per kwh is somewhere between $.09 and $.12 depending on location. That's 10, 100 watt lightbulbs burning for one hour so the cost of a 100 watt bulb should be a tenth of that! More or less.
Personally I see this as a non issue considering the fact that your fridge, furnace / A/C, TV, and other items in your household Run more and cost a lot more than a small notebook.
My desktop and my wife's desktop never shuts off other than during a power outage that lasts more than the 20 - 30 minutes supplied by our UPS devices.
We really didn't notice any appreciable difference in our electric bill as a result.
Besides, there is definitely a tradeoff for a degree of automation, comfort, control, fun, WAF and developing a "Smart house". That's my take! YMMV!
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The energy used to keep the PC on 24/7/365 can probably be offset by the energy saved by using X10 to turn of other lights/appliances when not needed.
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I've heard that the average of cost per kwh is somewhere between $.09 and $.12 depending on location.
I understand that in California a KWH is around 42 cents now. I pay nearly 20 cents. But the math remains the same. The major part of peoples electric bills are not a PC... or even lights.
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Hey Dave, maybe the only thing cheaper here than where you live. In northern California I pay $.12233
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Hey Dave, maybe the only thing cheaper here than where you live. In northern California I pay $.12233
Well apparently I am mistaken. Guess I am getting (?) to the age where I shouldn't trust my memory.
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Dave... buddy... GETTING ? :'
Seriously, in the Sierra where my electric rates are the highest, I pay in 3 tiers... 9 cents then 22 cents, then 34 cents. You really have to use a lot to get to the final punitive tier, which I recall may be 43 cents. So that may be what you heard about rates.
Chris
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I have a refrigerator and a freezer that eats more kilowatts than the PC that has AHP on it that runs 24/7/365. I live in Baltimore where I pay 10.8 cents per KW winter rates, summer rates are 11.4 per KW.
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Or u can search for WYSE model.
I got myself a small model WYSE: 1Ghz, 512MB Ram, running on a 512MB flash with WinXPe.
It seems the most green comp I found around and I have been using it for my AHP got last 2 years w/o any hiccup.
AHP with most of plugins, except of Video plugin, I cannot seem get it to work with WinXPe.
P.L
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Side issue on the rates: Are you quoting all-in rates? Here in Ontario we are on Time of Use billing which varies from 5-7-10 cents based on three periods of the day. It may sound good but all kilowatts are subject to line loss,transmission and Hydro debt retirement charges which brings the true cost between 20 and 22 Cents. We also pay more base costs if we use more than 800 kw per month.
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I run a weather station that uploads to Weather Underground, and I run a small weathercam server app on a Dell D610 laptop that was given to me.
I also run AHP on the same machine.
It has 1G ram and a 250 M harddrive.
The weather station app writes to the harddrive every 10 seconds so it never spins down.
I used to use a cheap, stripped down desktop for everything before the laptop was given to me.
I do have a kill-a-watt meter and did some power testing and the laptop won out.
The desktop draws 102 VA and 65 watts (no monitor)
The laptop draws 70 VA and 28 watts (no monitor)
The advantage of using a laptop is that you have built in battery backup, and don't need a UPS.
The weather station (Davis Vantage Pro2) has battery backup also.
The only thing that does NOT is the network switch, but uploads to Weather Underground resume when power is restored anyway.
The Kill-A-Watt is is great tool to see just how much power is consumed by all your appliances! I have the EZ model (a little more expensive), but it calculates what the cost to operate the device is by hour/day/month/year, so you have a good idea! I found it at HomeD for the cheapest, but there may be cheaper yet.
The only thing I wonder about is the reliablity of using a laptop 24/7. The fan and heatsink needs to be cleaned regularly as they do get clogged by dust very easily.
They are designed to run warmer than a desktop, but the issue I have is the 24/7/365.
I would think a notebook or a newer laptop would draw even less, but I still wonder about leaving it on all the time.
I will just have to see how long it lasts. Any input on longevity of a laptop or notebook???